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to be quite honest they is nothing dearly beloved here. is it wrong to tell somebody who wants to come and settle in Britain to learn English first, NO. if you go to Rome you do what the Romans do. same applies if you want to marry a muslim become a muslim first and then marry your partner they is nothing wrong with that. its never to late for the old man to learn the language. if i were this old man i would stop wasting time and start learning English now.zahid.ali.anwar wrote:spouses from non europian countries might speak few oddd words of english. But what about people coming from European Union. Just because they are from european union give them a BORN exeption from english language requirement. Theresa May said that British citizenship is a previlage and one should learn english before coming here. But what about europeans, they also come here to live permanently.
So I agree with Mr Gill that this is dearly beloved act...Chinese, Japanese, Hindi, Malai is alien languges to Englishers as Slovakian, Latvian, Polish to them...But no question for them and between the lines no to non europeans. Not good.....
They fall under EEA regulations meaning that they cannot be discriminated against on the basis of language (Article 24 of Directive 2004/38/EC). This also extends to their non-EEA family members regardless of nationality which means that your argument of beloved is a very weak one. If they wish to naturalise, however, they will nonetheless have to show language skills as anybody else.zahid.ali.anwar wrote:But what about people coming from European Union.
Basically, a non-EEA person can marry German, French, Spanish, Danish, Irish or any other EU resident and can come to live and work in UK, without knowing a word of English but the same person has to pass an English test, if he/she wants to marry a British Person and wants to live and work here. How on earth that can be justified??86ti wrote:They fall under EEA regulations meaning that they cannot be discriminated against on the basis of language (Article 24 of Directive 2004/38/EC). This also extends to their non-EEA family members regardless of nationality which means that your argument of beloved is a very weak one. If they wish to naturalise, however, they will nonetheless have to show language skills as anybody else.zahid.ali.anwar wrote:But what about people coming from European Union.
I think you are mistaken, no one said capping T2 was dearly beloved, closing down T1 was dearly beloved, stopping "bogus" students was dearly beloved. What you fail to understand is this: Its not about immigrants, its about British people, they being discriminated in their own country.mulderpf wrote:Any rule which cracks down on ALL immigration will therefore be deemed dearly beloved, because of the large proportion of immigrants from the Indian sub-continent.
Thank you sir/madam for raising this.Aryan2013 wrote:I think you are mistaken, no one said capping T2 was dearly beloved, closing down T1 was dearly beloved, stopping "bogus" students was dearly beloved. What you fail to understand is this: Its not about immigrants, its about British people, they being discriminated in their own country.mulderpf wrote:Any rule which cracks down on ALL immigration will therefore be deemed dearly beloved, because of the large proportion of immigrants from the Indian sub-continent.
I think its the same old tory policy of kicking the poor, kicking the disabled, et al.
You may not like it but free movement within the EEA cannot work if you impose additional hurdles like language requirements, etc. thus consequently non-EEA family members have the same rights. If you are seeking for a justification you will have to ask the (previous) UK goverenment but you have already said it:Aryan2013 wrote:Basically, a non-EEA person can marry German, French, Spanish, Danish, Irish or any other EU resident and can come to live and work in UK, without knowing a word of English but the same person has to pass an English test, if he/she wants to marry a British Person and wants to live and work here. How on earth that can be justified?
British citizens, by the way, can move to other member states under the same rules and retain these rights after return to the UK. There are more British abroad than the UK has in foreign EEA nationals. Would be interesting to compare their willingness to learn (some of) the language of their host memeber state to the same willingness of the EEA population here in the UK.Aryan2013 wrote:Its not about immigrants, its about British people, they being discriminated in their own country.
I agree with the sentiment behind what you are saying and my personal views veer towards an integrated society (perhaps unrealistically). I do feel, however, that a language requirement to enter the country on a spouse visa is a little too much, however. Asking him to learn English in order to settle here permanently thereafter, on the other hand, is entirely reasonable (IMHO).mulderpf wrote:I agree that the government might have gone a bit far in trying to control this, as families should never be kept apart, however, I simply don't understand why so many people are hell-bent on moving to England when they don't understand a word of English (and in this case even make it worse by declaring that he is too old to learn a new language and thereby justify that he shouldn't even bother).
Maybe I just live my life differently, but I cannot imagine going to live in China and not understanding a word of Chinese or going to live in Russia and not understanding a word of Russian or going to live in Greece and not understanding a word of Greek. And whilst there are English communities there too, you will always feel like an outsider and have to be treated like you are disabled, because you simply don't understand what is going on around you.
I agree that the rules take things too far, but to actually refuse to even try and integrate into the community where you want to move to is simply ludicrous. It is clear that there's no intention to even try and learn anything about the country or the language of the country where Mr Chapti wants to move to. I don't see why a country should host someone to live there when clearly the person being hosted has no interest in that country or it's language and history.
Germany has the same requirement for spouses of German citizens.drjabberwocky23 wrote: I agree with the sentiment behind what you are saying and my personal views veer towards an integrated society (perhaps unrealistically). I do feel, however, that a language requirement to enter the country on a spouse visa is a little too much, however. Asking him to learn English in order to settle here permanently thereafter, on the other hand, is entirely reasonable (IMHO).
The Station Agent wrote:Aryan2013 - you say this policy kicks the poor. Don't you realise that unskilled immigration kicks the UK poor?
Yes, I agree with you on this but the FACT is majority of the unskilled immigration is from EU countires, like it or not!!
The people who profit from the enlargement of a pool of poorly skilled people prepared to work for low cash wages, pay no tax and be a burden on the state are the exploitative business owners (often first-generation immigrants themselves). We should do our best, as a country, to very much restrict low-skilled immigration - we have too many people already here without jobs or skills. Family migration is the largest route for unskilled/low skilled immigration.
You are mistaken on this and cash wages you are talking about is I think about shop owners, if you see the BIGGER picture, they are not even a small dot.
It does the "working class" of the UK a disservice and leads to friction and beloved, because the people already here see waves of new immigrants coming in and not even bothering to speak the lingo.
Spot on, but the solution is to STOP unskilled EU immigration.
I do agree with the point that whoever wants to come here must speak the lingo(It must apply to everyone), full stop.
I don't see a problem, Brits are not there to "steal" low-skilled jobs from spaniards. Britain exports high-skilled people and import low-skilled people from europe and that's the BIG problem, I think.Casa wrote:Interestingly, I spent several years living in Spain and found that of all the foreign nationals, the British were by far the worst at integrating and attempting to learn the Spanish language. Some had been there for 30 years and could only manage to say 'Hello', 'Goodbye' and 'a beer please'!
Aryan2013 wrote:Yes, I agree with you on this but the FACT is majority of the unskilled immigration is from EU countires, like it or not!
If those are facts you need to show us numbers from a reliable source. No need for cheap polemics.Aryan2013 wrote:I don't see a problem, Brits are not there to "steal" low-skilled jobs from spaniards. Britain exports high-skilled people and import low-skilled people from europe and that's the BIG problem, I think.
As stated earlier, that is not possible.Aryan2013 wrote:Spot on, but the solution is to STOP unskilled EU immigration. I do agree with the point that whoever wants to come here must speak the lingo(It must apply to everyone)