Spousal/Unmarried partner advice URGENT!!! Thanks

[FreddieEddit]

Hi everyone I am new here.

I have a question that I am very stressed by and I would be most appreciative if you guys can offer me some advice and support.

I am a british citizen but my girlfriend is Chinese. We have been living together for almost 3 years, however I am not sure what evidence we need to provide to prove this or whether I have such evidence in the first place.

I have been living with her since November 2008 when I moved in with her after my graduation in July 2008. Her accomodation was a university accomodation and I had stayed with her there. Since then we have moved back to my parents accomodation in May 2010 and have still been living together.

We intend to get marry some time in the future, but not in a time span that would warrant the fiance visa i.e. 6 months.

Her current visa a PSW expires in April 2011.

Please any advice as to how we can stay together without marrying for the sake of it rather than because we plan to immediately etc.

Best wishes and thanks in advance to those who contribute.

[vinny]

See also Unmarried/same-sex partners.

Her current visa a PSW expires in April 2011.

Where is she now?

[Casa]

Did you mean April 2012? Vinny has given you the link to the FLR(M) application information, but you need to bear in mind that Unmarried Partner applications come under a great deal of scrutiny. Especially when the foreign partner's current visa is close to expiry.
You will be expected to show for a minimum of 24 months that you have lived together in a relationship 'akin to marriage' with documentary evidence to support that. This should include documents showing joint address and proof of 'joint commitments', i.e finances and usually (although not possible in your case) joint tenancy or mortgage. The case worker will expect to see an application which shows more than simply a 'boyfriend/girlfriend' relationship.
The Unmarried Partner visa was originally introduced for couples where one was a national of a country in which divorce was illegal. Later the concession was given to couples who were living together as if a married couple for 2 years or more. What we loosely call 'a common law marriage'.
You need to consider how confident you are that you will be able to submit strong evidence of this.

[FreddieEddit]

Thank you for the replies thus far.

Yes sorry I meant April 2011. So her PSW visa still has 7 months + validity. Her PSW visa originally was valid for 2 years. So just under half the length remaining.

She is currently living with me and my parents whilst working for a company near by.

Thank you for the link. We meet all requirements except the proof of iving together. So what would you guys suggest we do if we would want to continue living together? Is there another more relevant visa or can I argue my case?

We do not have any shared financial commitments etc.

Best wishes and thanks in advance.

[Casa]

What documented proof do you have for the crucial 2 year period?
i.e what letters/official documents do you have addressed in your names to the joint addresses throughout this time? Do you have anything at all in joint names? Do you have any evidence that you were sharing accommodation at the University?

[FreddieEddit]

I have nothing as proof. All my bank atatements are through online banking as are my mobile bills etc.

What do you recommend I do? Even if I had them sent there I am sure I would have binned them by now.. as I see no reason to review them after a few months.

[Casa]

With no proof that you were living with your girlfriend at the University and also if I've understood correctly nothing showing a joint commitment, apart from the fact that you both live in your parents home, an application for a UPV would be extremely weak. Your parents could submit a letter confirming the relationship, but without anything else to support this the case worker could take the view that your girlfriend simply lodges there.
You would benefit from legal advice on this. As I explained earlier, an Unmarried Partner application from someone whose visa has only a few months left before expiry will have to tick all the boxes to convince the case worker it isn't a means to remain in the UK.
You would benefit from legal advice on this.

[ElenaW]

Think you're going to have to get married and apply for flr(m) since I don't see how you can prove that you've lived together for two years.

[FreddieEddit]

Joint commitments?

I dont understand how a mortgage would work given that she is not a british citizen. Plus we are both still young so still earning income. Not enough for a mortgage. But we both have savings hence not reliant on state funding.

Elena could you please explain the abbrieviation flw?

So you guys are saying my only choice is to marry her? We moved into my parents accomodation in May 2010. Her visa runs out in april 2012. Is there any leeway on this time scale. She has her statements sent to my address and I have bills in my name and parents name. Is this good enough?

[Casa]

ElenaW's abbreviation is FLR(M) - Further Leave to Remain.
I included mortgage as some couples do have this. When the British partner adds his overseas partner to the mortgage for example. I also mentioned joint rental agreement which many couples do have.
A legal professional may see a way around the missing period without any proof of joint living, but unfortunately I can't. Even at present you don't appear to have anything to show you're living as a married couple. As I said earlier a case worker could say that statements sent to your parents address in your girlfriends name proves nothing. UPV's aren't an easy route.
I'd would seek professional advice from a solicitor specialising in Immigration Law and registered with the Law Society, or from an OISC registered Immigration Advisor to see what your chances are.
If you decide to marry, you will still be applying for FLR(M). The joint address won't be important then, but you will have to prove that the relationship is genuine.
There's no leeway on the timescale unfortunately. The 2 year rule is set in stone.

[ElenaW]

Lots of people are young but if they're living together they have to pay bills! These are joint commitments. Car payments, rent, gas, mobile phones etc...

Flr(m) is what you need to apply for regardless of you applying as an unmarried partner or married couple.

Why such a reluctance to marrying this person you love and live with? What's the difference really?

Sorry but rules are rules. There's no visa for people who want to date. Marriage shows commitment and that's what UKBA want to see.

[FreddieEddit]

Ty Elena and Casa

Don't get me wrong I am not arguing with you and I am very appreciative of your help.

Let me further clarify a few things.

As I said we are living with the parents and I have joint mortgage with my parents, hence the bills are either in my parents or my name.

There is no reluctance to marry. Of course as I said we will marry eventually, but if we have to do it within lets say the 7 months period she has left on her visa, it feels we are rushing it intentionally. Normally marriage is a planned affair right? But like I said if that is the only option the of course I will go for that. I just want to keep that day special and have it the way we want it and not some rushed dabacle at the registrars office etc.

We have no cars to speak of and as I said whilst I was living with her it was at her university so she had no bills etc. Now we are back at mine and my parents place she does not need to pay the bills. We are not like british couples which like to go dutch etc. I am not strapped for cash and vice versa so we feel no obligations to split things down the line etc. In terms of mobiles she is on pay as you go, I am on contract. But as I said all of my bills and bank statements are done online. Call me an environmentalist, but I don't like wasting unneccesary paper etc. We were planning on going with her PSW and her finding a job which will allow her to get a work permit etc, but because of course of the recession etc this has become difficult. But of course we are still commited to be together forever and eventually marry, hence we now need to go with an alternate option.

Regarding the FLR, I still need to either get married or get this spousal visa first is that correct? Do any of you guys have any experience dealing with these lawyers etc? I spoke to 2 companies that assist in visa application. One I contacted 2 months ago and explained my circumstance and he said he thinks that I can make a successful application. Then 2 days ago I made a call to another company, but this time as you guys have been saying regarding lack of evidence, she said that it is not really possible.

Is the first company I called believable?

They wanted £550 to cover cost of visa application and £700~ for the assistance?

Thanks in advance and best wishes

[potcakes]

I can fully understand where you are coming from. Its so frustrating. We cant save for a marriage AND save for the visa. We want to get to the UK as my dad has dementia, why should we get married just to please the UK government. I have PR under the commonlaw category for Canada, yet we still have to jump through hoops to get my OH his visa for the UK. Pull together what you can, once you start looking you will be surprised as to what you find!!! Good luck!

[ElenaW]

You don't need anyone to process your application. It's easy. The questions are ones that only you know the answers to anyways. Very straight forward. Advisors (especially bad ones) would love to tell you that you'd be successful because they want you to pay up! So they'll tell you what you want to hear. If we are telling you it won't be successful we are trying to steer you in the right direction since we don't get paid, there's no benefit in us lying.

Also on this forum a lot of people had to rush their wedding day and had a wedding at a registry office. If everyone can be more sensitive and not label those wedding days as inferior, people would be more willing to help. I get that you're young and want to fight "the man" but you know what, if you work against the system you'll just get a sh*t load of rejection and make it harder on yourself. You need to change your thinking. 7 months is not rushing things at all. My husband and I were engaged for 2 months and that gave us plenty of time to plan a lovely wedding in the carribean (we were young and had no money but still managed to save up!). Best day of our lives. We didn't think of it as rushed because we knew we'd get married anyways. When you know, it doesn't matter when or where.

Btw, change your bills to paper statements. You'll need originals in your next step anyways. The inner eco friendly you will have to wait!

It's flr(m) or the spousal visa. Since you're in the UK and I assume you'll have your wedding here too, she'll be applying for flr(m). If you apply from outside of the UK she'll be applying for the spousal visa.

[ElenaW]

I can fully understand where you are coming from. Its so frustrating. We cant save for a marriage AND save for the visa. We want to get to the UK as my dad has dementia, why should we get married just to please the UK government. I have PR under the commonlaw category for Canada, yet we still have to jump through hoops to get my OH his visa for the UK. Pull together what you can, once you start looking you will be surprised as to what you find!!! Good luck!

Your wedding does not have to be extravagant. You can have a lovely small ceremony. Sounds like you need to prioritize better.

[potcakes]

Your wedding does not have to be extravagant. You can have a lovely small ceremony. Sounds like you need to prioritize better.

EXCUSE ME!!! how dare you judge me. I want to get married with my parents there, I also have my fiances family to consider his mum has dementia too!. We are NOT looking at anything extravagent, just something that means something to BOTH of us. My first husband passed away after only 18 months of marriage, so before you start casting critisism there is a bigger picture.

SO please crawl back under your stone!!!

[ElenaW]

Your wedding does not have to be extravagant. You can have a lovely small ceremony. Sounds like you need to prioritize better.

EXCUSE ME!!! how dare you judge me. I want to get married with my parents there, I also have my fiances family to consider his mum has dementia too!. We are NOT looking at anything extravagent, just something that means something to BOTH of us. My first husband passed away after only 18 months of marriage, so before you start casting critisism there is a bigger picture.

SO please crawl back under your stone!!!

I didn't say that your situation is not sad. It is. I was commenting on the fact that you thought the family based visa rules are unfair. A lot of people had to have a wedding without their parents or even any family at all. These people made the sacrifice and were scrutinized harshly (think african/asian countries). If you don't like it, you can live somewhere else.

[mochyn]

Your wedding does not have to be extravagant. You can have a lovely small ceremony. Sounds like you need to prioritize better.

EXCUSE ME!!! how dare you judge me. I want to get married with my parents there, I also have my fiances family to consider his mum has dementia too!. We are NOT looking at anything extravagent, just something that means something to BOTH of us. My first husband passed away after only 18 months of marriage, so before you start casting critisism there is a bigger picture.

SO please crawl back under your stone!!!

You were given advice to make you understand what various people on this site have also had to endure and you then launch an attack on the person trying to help you .
I think you need to apologise to elena

[Casa]

Potcakes, I know that you are new to the forum, but please post with respect...or not at all.

[potcakes]

Firstly I apologise for upsetting anyone, however the higher than mighty attitude of certain posters is not neccessary either. For those of us who relationship is genuine, yet not validated by a piece of paper, for whatever reason there is the de facto route. I wish I knew two years ago that my dad was going to slip further into dementia, but I didnt, so did I keep every little piece of paper that binds us?? no, am I anxious, yes, but slowly we are putting the picture together. Is the de facto route harder, YES, but we are getting there. We have been quoted $5500 to ship me, my DH 2 dogs, and a small container, Roughly $1500 for the visa itself. So do you think pulling together a wedding with people we hardly know will help no!

[FreddieEddit]

The company I was refering to is:

http://www.ukvisaandimmigration.co.uk/

Has anyone had any experience with them?

As I said regarding marriage, we were always planning to one day in the future. But of course we wanted time to plan everything. There are many things to consider, obviously every girl has a dream of a big wedding and not just settle on something less. Of course I don't doubt that you can still plan an amazing day in 7 months, but timing is also important. Chinese people have traditions and specific years which signify luck etc..

Anyway thanks for the help thus far. So regarding the FLR. Do we get married first before applying for the FLR? And do we need to switch Visas when we get married first?

Thanks in advance

[FreddieEddit]

This particular company told me that regarding the living of wholes of residence for a long period without any documentation, they can give me legal representation and use case law. They said this is not a problem. What do you guys think regarding this?

Regarding FLR. This person said it is not necessary as she already has legal right to stay here? OR something to that effect?

[vinny]

Applying for FLR or ILR is not necessary until shorty before her leave expires. However, applying sooner may be better than later, if eligible.

[Greenie]

This particular company told me that regarding the living of wholes of residence for a long period without any documentation, they can give me legal representation and use case law. They said this is not a problem. What do you guys think regarding this?

Regarding FLR. This person said it is not necessary as she already has legal right to stay here? OR something to that effect?

ask them what cases they are referring to. There is no case law that I am aware of regarding not being required to show evidence of cohabitation

I don't understand what you mean regarding FLR not being 'necessary'. What did they say exactly?

[FreddieEddit]

This particular company told me that regarding the living of wholes of residence for a long period without any documentation, they can give me legal representation and use case law. They said this is not a problem. What do you guys think regarding this?

Regarding FLR. This person said it is not necessary as she already has legal right to stay here? OR something to that effect?

ask them what cases they are referring to. There is no case law that I am aware of regarding not being required to show evidence of cohabitation

I don't understand what you mean regarding FLR not being 'necessary'. What did they say exactly?

Regarding case law, he did not specify, but mentioned that I would get a legal represenatative who will argue my case. And that because I applied for this help this would stand me in good stead with the home office.

Regarding FLR, he said I do not need to apply for this because my girlfriend already has a right to stay.