Eligibility about PR for Non-EEA family member

[onecarl]

Dear guys,
I heard that if Non-EEA family member reside in UK for 5 continues year, then he/she is eligible to apply for PR (Permanent Residency). I’m from india and my wife is from Poland. Because of some painful personal reasons, we are going to divorce, which is painful, but we have not some other way. so my question is this, that how the Home-Office counts the 5 years period?

will Home-office count my Entry-Clearance stay (on behalf of my EEA member wife), then application waiting time for FMRS, then my stay on FMRS, then again application time for Residence card, and then my stay on Residence Card, then application time for Retained the Right of Residence, then stay on Retained the Right of Residence………………etc etc etc, and should be in total stay of 5 years?

OR

Home-Office will start counting the stay of 5 years, after giving me the Resident-Card of five years?

Its important question for me, so please give me your valuable answer, carefully.

best regards

vijay

[nonspecifics]

How long have you been married?
Do you have proof your wife is exercising Treaty Rights?

[fysicus]

Your story has the smell of a marriage of convenience...
Divorce as soon as you are eligible for retention of rights?

[onecarl]

you have right to have your perception or smell, But it is was not convenience marriage..... and i don't want write the reasons of divorce. i still dont want to give her divorce, but when you dont see the feelings from other side, then what can we do? and i'm just collecting information, and i will try my best to keep my marriage alive.

and now about the situation. Well, we are married for more than 3 years, and we were living together in UK for 2 years. And working full-time for last 2 years as well. And yes, i have proves that my wife was exercising her Treaty Rights

So can somebody give the answer?

thanks

[Plum70]

Just yesterday my husband and I were talking broadly about the undulating seasons in marriage and the conscious effort that is needed to keep it 'alive and pulsating' daily. He strongly believes that in general, no one can claim to have made enough effort to make a marriage work after just 3 years and I somewhat agreed. Although if in an abusive r/ship then you may want to get out while you still can!

Don't know the OP's reasons - may be more complex than the post suggests - but I would certainly advocate for both parties trying to work things out b4 going for the seemingly "easy" exit strategy of divorce.

To the OP: PR is attainable 5 years from when you began residing in the UK with your (ex) wife. If you decide to divorce, you must begin to exercise treaty rights in some capacity to be eligible.

[onecarl]

thanks for reply, but looking for more answers...

[nonspecifics]

If a person meets the criteria under the 2004 EU Directive as the family member of an EEA national, then the time of residence is counted from the day you become a family member in the UK, not the dates on issued documents.

If already married then the residence clock starts ticking when you enter the UK with your EEA spouse.

If a person became a family member by marrying in the UK, then they would count from the date of the marriage.

As other posters have suggested, you will probably also have to convince the UKBA that the relationship was a genuine one, before you came to the UK, and later when you came to the UK, and that your spouse was exercising Treaty Rights at the time of the divorce.

[onecarl]

thanks for reply. But how can i prove to UKBA that the relation was true..... what is the way to prove? and how it looks the marriage of convenience?
what would you say?

looking forward

[nonspecifics]

A Marriage of convenience is where the participants in the marriage have a relationship of some sort as a couple. They do not have to be in love or be intimate with each other. They can enjoy the legal, financial, social or other benefits of marriage.

It's not illegal to have a marriage of convenience. Lots of couples are married for convenience long after the love has died ( if there ever was any to start with). But they usually live together or share aspects of their life together, so there is a relationship there, even if it is not based on love.

When UKBA say "marriage of convenience" , what they mean is a bogus or sham marriage.


Bogus marriages are where the participants in the marriage have no relationship after the marriage ceremony - and are often complete strangers before and after the ceremony.

They have no relationship and their only motive is to cheat the immigration system. This is illegal and a criminal offence.



So, if you had a genuine relationship you should be able to prove it the same way as any other couple prove it.

Your marriage certificate proves you got married.

Then, usually married couples in a genuine relationship have bank statements, other letters, bills and rental agreements that are for the same address or have good reasons why not. They usually have or had at least some shared finances of some sort.

They also often have photos of times spent together.

If you are from India and married ( I presume) an EEA ethnic European, UKBA will be suspicious straight away, cos they know Indians usually marry Indians for cultural and religious reasons.

Many non-EEA that marry EEA Europeans do it to cheat the Immigration system. UKBA see that every day of the week. Lots are also in genuine relationships. But, if you are innocent, you are tarred with the same brush as the cheats. That's why people are having a go at you on here. UKBA use the excuse of weeding out the cheats to make life harder for genuine applicants.

I don't know your circumstances, if it was a genuine relationship or not, and I am not your judge, but if UKBA are the same as usual, in their eyes you are guilty of a bogus marriage until you prove yourself innocent with documentary proof.

[onecarl]

thanks for detailed answer.
she was living with me for 2 years at same address in UK and i have her few bank statements (3 or 4) for different months with same address, her NHS card is also with same address, i have her some (less than 15 (she gets weekly pay-slip)) pay-slips as well with same address, her job-confirmation letter with same address of mine, and i have some photos together as well, and few photos are with her parents.

we were living in my friend's home, so do not have bills.

what do you think? are these things enough or not?

regards and looking forward....

[nonspecifics]

If you were living in your friend's home, why don't you also get your friend to write a letter stating that you and your wife lived as a married couple in his house for 2 years?

That's better that you have some evidence. It might be enough to convince them that it was a real marriage.

You can only really find that out by applying and seeing what they say.

You also need to prove the exercising of Treaty Rights by the EEA national at the time the divorce is granted.

That can be a problem if you are now separated and do not communicate with one another or if you don't know if she is still in the UK.

If she has stopped exercising Treaty Rights or leaves the country before your divorce is finalised, I think you could lose your right to reside.

Or if you can't prove what she does at the time the divorce is completed, then the UKBA may just say you did not supply enough evidence of exercising Treaty Rights by the EEA national.

After the divorce, then you will need to be exercising Treaty Rights too as if you were then the EEA national if you retained the rights of residence.

Best to get more advice from other forum members with more experience of this, as I am not certain if my understanding of it is 100% correct.

[onecarl]

thanks for your reply and I'm requesting to Senior Members to write some words. i will be thankful

[bobobo]

Just an FYI - A letter from the friend to the HO vouching the relationship is genuine is no good. HO will not consider this in making the decision. They have their own methods of judging this. The following things might temp them to investigate further:
1. OP's immigration history
2. Duration of relationship
3. any common ground between the 2 (they speak the same language, culture, length of relationship etc..)
4. anything alarming - the spouse is away form he country most of the time.

Op's case might not be the strongest and might have a hint of MoC but if the HO are satisfied that there is no smoke then he should be fine. It is difficult to judge any case on the face value.

If you were living in your friend's home, why don't you also get your friend to write a letter stating that you and your wife lived as a married couple in his house for 2 years?

That's better that you have some evidence. It might be enough to convince them that it was a real marriage.

You can only really find that out by applying and seeing what they say.

You also need to prove the exercising of Treaty Rights by the EEA national at the time the divorce is granted.

That can be a problem if you are now separated and do not communicate with one another or if you don't know if she is still in the UK.

If she has stopped exercising Treaty Rights or leaves the country before your divorce is finalised, I think you could lose your right to reside.

Or if you can't prove what she does at the time the divorce is completed, then the UKBA may just say you did not supply enough evidence of exercising Treaty Rights by the EEA national.

After the divorce, then you will need to be exercising Treaty Rights too as if you were then the EEA national if you retained the rights of residence.

Best to get more advice from other forum members with more experience of this, as I am not certain if my understanding of it is 100% correct.

[onecarl]

Mr. bobobo ,
thanks for your answer and what do you think about my documents? are these looking enough? and what do you think that how my marriage is looking the MoC?

regards and looking forward ......

[bobobo]

Personally I reckon that these are not enough at all, again I might be wrong but I have seen a lot more docs that prove the marriage was genuine. I applied for RoR as well, I had known my ex for a while and was married for >3.5 years in all I had to prove:
1. we lived for > 5 years even before marriage
2. my ex spuse was working here for > 5 years
3. I was employed all this while
4. I had a Work permit for 5 years with a Tier 1 bank, so my immigration history was clear
5. Proof of cohabitation for about 3 years (thats what i could find):
including Joint bank statements, joint insurance, joint health insurance, bank and credit card statements, bills, tenancy agreement etc...
6. Proof that my marriage broke down as a result of my spouse and so much because I wanted something else in my mind. to be honest I would have been better off if I didnt apply for the EEA permit in the first go, it just made life difficult for me.

The key things you need to prove for RoR:
1. The marriage lasted for > 3years
2. atleast 1 year in Uk
3. Spouse was exercisig treaty rights here all he time specially from initiation to grant of decree absolute.

there may be more but these initally come to head.

dont get me wrong, but I feel you are trying to be more keen to know how to retain rights rather than try to work things out with your spouse.

I am not judging you but if i look at your case neuterally then I can smell something fishy.... and if I can HO have a stronger abilitiy to sniff this out. You can only prove that yours was not a MoC by supplying key documents that show the HO that you were just like a normal huband and wife, and from my experience if you have been togethor long enough for the right reasons then proving what the HO ask for should not be difficult.

Mr. bobobo ,
thanks for your answer and what do you think about my documents? are these looking enough? and what do you think that how my marriage is looking the MoC?

regards and looking forward ......

[onecarl]

thanks very much Mr.bobobo for your words. You have gone through that whole situation, which i have to face. and if you don't mind, then can i communicate with you via PM ? i will be thankful to you.

regards and looking forward......

[bobobo]

I am not the only one who has gone through this, i reckon its best to discuss issues you have on this forum, this would allow others with similar experience to share their views. If you hve something that you need to ask still PM me and I will try to respond as early as I can.

thanks very much Mr.bobobo for your words. You have gone through that whole situation, which i have to face. and if you don't mind, then can i communicate with you via PM ? i will be thankful to you.

regards and looking forward......