need help regarding rejection of resd card application

[safr]

just a little back ground of my case and status.I was on student visa.2009 Ho refuse to extend student visa because of gap b/w the commencement of course and month.even consideration rejected .Applied into another category FLR(O) rejection again.I am non-eaa national Applied for COA in December 2009.received approval on October 2010,Married November 2010,applied for residence card with bundle of proofs as bills,tenancy agreement,wife payslips,p60,bank statements,certificate of application send within 6 weeks time with right to work or take employment.HO visited our correspond address and found i was move 3 weeks ago,the house mates told them yes i was living with them but recently i moved but they don't know where i move that the only statement they given to ukba people.Basically my wife work in London and i work in Essex two different places and quite expensive travelling to commute every day,so we see each other on weekend i go to her place because she lives with her family friend,and i live in a rented room in other town as i mentioned earlier i work there,and it is quite obvious that you don't have to be under the one roof all the time circumstances varies.we are in a genuine relationship.Anyway they send us a rejection letter stated this is a marriage of convenience but given a right of appeal to tribunal and also it stated that they are thinking we are no more in any relationship.I sent a right of appeal form with the refusal explanation.Me and wife will go when they call us on hearing.I need advice ,any one has same experience/problem.What type of evidence we need to to proof that our relationship is existed,please help

[rachellynn1972]

just a little back ground of my case and status.I was on student visa.2009 Ho refuse to extend student visa because of gap b/w the commencement of course and month.even consideration rejected .Applied into another category FLR(O) rejection again.I am non-eaa national Applied for COA in December 2009.received approval on October 2010,Married November 2010,applied for residence card with bundle of proofs as bills,tenancy agreement,wife payslips,p60,bank statements,certificate of application send within 6 weeks time with right to work or take employment.HO visited our correspond address and found i was move 3 weeks ago,the house mates told them yes i was living with them but recently i moved but they don't know where i move that the only statement they given to ukba people.Basically my wife work in London and i work in Essex two different places and quite expensive travelling to commute every day,so we see each other on weekend i go to her place because she lives with her family friend,and i live in a rented room in other town as i mentioned earlier i work there,and it is quite obvious that you don't have to be under the one roof all the time circumstances varies.we are in a genuine relationship.Anyway they send us a rejection letter stated this is a marriage of convenience but given a right of appeal to tribunal and also it stated that they are thinking we are no more in any relationship.I sent a right of appeal form with the refusal explanation.Me and wife will go when they call us on hearing.I need advice ,any one has same experience/problem.What type of evidence we need to to proof that our relationship is existed,please help

Did you get a Certificate of Application after you send in your application? Or was it just rejected straight away?

As long you are married and you know the marriage in real, I think you have no problem, but you will need to explain in details with date as it happen and with experience I can give you some advice before going to the hearing? coming to your house make no meaning as there are guidance for home office to track a sham marriage, they will have to interview you both and you admitting it was sham. You have to give us some true details here...

[Jambo]

Did you get a Certificate of Application after you send in your application? Or was it just rejected straight away?

Difficult to read one long paragraph but he does say:

certificate of application send within 6 weeks time with right to work or take employment

Not trying to defend the HO here but it is not a surprise that your case raised a few red flags. Got married to EU citizen after two refusals on two different categories, then changed address (did you inform the HO about the move?), not living together (at least most of the week). I'm not doubting your relationship but this is not a typical story. Be prepared to provide as much evidence that this is a genuine relationship.

[rachellynn1972]

Did you get a Certificate of Application after you send in your application? Or was it just rejected straight away?

Difficult to read one long paragraph but he does say:

certificate of application send within 6 weeks time with right to work or take employment

Not trying to defend the HO here but it is not a surprise that your case raised a few red flags. Got married to EU citizen after two refusals on two different categories, then changed address (did you inform the HO about the move?), not living together (at least most of the week). I'm not doubting your relationship but this is not a typical story. Be prepared to provide as much evidence that this is a genuine relationship.

Two refusal mean nothing in regard to application of eea residence card under eu law because the non eea does not have any criteria as the spouse in the application but only to be the family member, you living and getting a residence card rely on your spouse exercising treaty right in UK. The onus is on the eea spouse to support the application with full writing and physical need if the marriage is real. as for now no criteria for the non eea spouse, his or her application may be refused 10x under immigration rule as long the eea is exercising treaty right, married and he/she is ready to stand in any court to back the non eea, he has right to live in UK. Moreover the eu law does not say they must be living together, even if they are divorce the non eea can still retain his/her residency right.

[safr]

[quote="rachellynn1972
Did you get a Certificate of Application after you send in your application? Or was it just rejected straight away?

Difficult to read one long paragraph but he does say:

certificate of application send within 6 weeks time with right to work or take employment

Not trying to defend the HO here but it is not a surprise that your case raised a few red flags. Got married to EU citizen after two refusals on two different categories, then changed address (did you inform the HO about the move?), not living together (at least most of the week). I'm not doubting your relationship but this is not a typical story. Be prepared to provide as much evidence that this is a genuine relationship.

Two refusal mean nothing in regard to application of eea residence card under eu law because the non eea does not have any criteria as the spouse in the application but only to be the family member, you living and getting a residence card rely on your spouse exercising treaty right in UK. The onus is on the eea spouse to support the application with full writing and physical need if the marriage is real. as for now no criteria for the non eea spouse, his or her application may be refused 10x under immigration rule as long the eea is exercising treaty right, married and he/she is ready to stand in any court to back the non eea, he has right to live in UK. Moreover the eu law does not say they must be living together, even if they are divorce the non eea can still retain his/her residency right.[/quote]
Thank you very much for the prompt reply,yes there was a red flag as my adverse immigration history,yes i was in relationship before my second refusal.In connection with not staying together most of the time ,its true we both work part time and lives miles away,but weekend i go to her and stay there,we love each other.she can stand in court with me,i speak her language.we have no language barrier. HO people can take our interview but the evidence of our relationship i dont understand what shall we proof,nothing else apart from marriage certificate,pictures,text messages ,i think thats all we have got.we sent appeal form few days ago and now waiting for the confirmation.Please advice us what type of evidence we need to gather.Thanks for your time and patience

[rachellynn1972]

Did you get a Certificate of Application after you send in your application? Or was it just rejected straight away?

Difficult to read one long paragraph but he does say:

certificate of application send within 6 weeks time with right to work or take employment

Not trying to defend the HO here but it is not a surprise that your case raised a few red flags. Got married to EU citizen after two refusals on two different categories, then changed address (did you inform the HO about the move?), not living together (at least most of the week). I'm not doubting your relationship but this is not a typical story. Be prepared to provide as much evidence that this is a genuine relationship.

Two refusal mean nothing in regard to application of eea residence card under eu law because the non eea does not have any criteria as the spouse in the application but only to be the family member, you living and getting a residence card rely on your spouse exercising treaty right in UK. The onus is on the eea spouse to support the application with full writing and physical need if the marriage is real. as for now no criteria for the non eea spouse, his or her application may be refused 10x under immigration rule as long the eea is exercising treaty right, married and he/she is ready to stand in any court to back the non eea, he has right to live in UK. Moreover the eu law does not say they must be living together, even if they are divorce the non eea can still retain his/her residency right.

Actually not necessary but good, get a letter from family members and friends, stating they know you and your wife, go to your local mp, both you and your wife for backup letter, all this will really help because they will know people are aware of your relationship and get your marriage witnesses to write a backup letter too. All this are evidence that can be use in the court and if they are not satisfied, they should interview you both. But as both of you are not living together this will not help as they will use that against you that both of you have never live together or intend to live together, get her name on your house rent and bill of the new house you are living now. Make sure you have some of her things in your house this show a woman is living with you. If you have a pet on both name that will be good too. Best of luck.

[flames]

I could be wrong but i think i read some judgement on the AIT website (related to a case of marriage of convenience) were an immigration judge commented that its not enough for UKBA to say a couple aren't living together now or at any point but should prove that the couple never intended to live together in the first place. So , provided you can justify why you aren't living together at the moment i think you should be fine and i think your reasons are good enough (Job related).

Why can't you get a place of your own with both names on the lease agreement even though you could be meeting up at that place during weekends

[Godott]

[quote="rachellynn1972
Did you get a Certificate of Application after you send in your application? Or was it just rejected straight away?

Difficult to read one long paragraph but he does say:

certificate of application send within 6 weeks time with right to work or take employment

Not trying to defend the HO here but it is not a surprise that your case raised a few red flags. Got married to EU citizen after two refusals on two different categories, then changed address (did you inform the HO about the move?), not living together (at least most of the week). I'm not doubting your relationship but this is not a typical story. Be prepared to provide as much evidence that this is a genuine relationship.

Two refusal mean nothing in regard to application of eea residence card under eu law because the non eea does not have any criteria as the spouse in the application but only to be the family member, you living and getting a residence card rely on your spouse exercising treaty right in UK. The onus is on the eea spouse to support the application with full writing and physical need if the marriage is real. as for now no criteria for the non eea spouse, his or her application may be refused 10x under immigration rule as long the eea is exercising treaty right, married and he/she is ready to stand in any court to back the non eea, he has right to live in UK. Moreover the eu law does not say they must be living together, even if they are divorce the non eea can still retain his/her residency right.

Thank you very much for the prompt reply,yes there was a red flag as my adverse immigration history,yes i was in relationship before my second refusal.In connection with not staying together most of the time ,its true we both work part time and lives miles away,but weekend i go to her and stay there,we love each other.she can stand in court with me,i speak her language.we have no language barrier. HO people can take our interview but the evidence of our relationship i dont understand what shall we proof,nothing else apart from marriage certificate,pictures,text messages ,i think thats all we have got.we sent appeal form few days ago and now waiting for the confirmation.Please advice us what type of evidence we need to gather.Thanks for your time and patience[/quote]

WHat are you talking about????????
OF COURSE, they expected them to live together!!!! They dont live in two different countries!
THey just got married, and they live separately! Hey, is for Non -eea spose's WORK more important than a so called' wife'? HE or she can change a job! especially, Non-eea who just started with a one, i suppose as he recently got COA- right to work.
Hm, of course something smells bad about this case, with all due respect.
IF they were living in 2 different countries, yes, I would understand, but hey, London- Essex, come on..
If I was Immigration officer, I would bring the same LOGICAL conclusion.
IS his job more important than a life TIME / moments spent with his wife?
Plenty of jobs out there.. Looks like he married for the work permit rather than to enjoy a new life of a married couple.
Because of those kind of incidents, YOu and Myself were on suspicion with UKba, and THere is the reason why All of us are waiting for such a long period to get our right based on our genuine marriage.


And Advise for the man who created this post..
As you asked for the advise, I suggest you go back to live with your Wife, and start searching for the job somewhere in London ( if you love her , of course, and if she is your real wife!!!)..

As personally, I would do anything for the person I married.. even go to the Arctic if he moves there for his job!

[Godott]

I could be wrong but i think i read some judgement on the AIT website (related to a case of marriage of convenience) were an immigration judge commented that its not enough for UKBA to say a couple aren't living together now or at any point but should prove that the couple never intended to live together in the first place. So , provided you can justify why you aren't living together at the moment i think you should be fine and i think your reasons are good enough (Job related).

Why can't you get a place of your own with both names on the lease agreement even though you could be meeting up at that place during weekends

I really dont understand you people! Why do you help such cases???
System is sometimes TOO gentle on all of us.... '' Couple dont need to live together''? .. MAybe if couple were livign for 30 years togehter and then better job offer came for one of them , in order to provide more for the family, but obviously, this couple JUST got married!!!! : )

Is this not obvious? Why do you support such cases.. I wil never understand. I am truly disappointed.

In the End, I have only 1 question for the guy: '' Why did you get married in the first place if you remain separated as you could still be a non-married couple???'' What difference did it make to both of you? I doubt you were genuine at the first place.. Im sorry..

[flames]

I could be wrong but i think i read some judgement on the AIT website (related to a case of marriage of convenience) were an immigration judge commented that its not enough for UKBA to say a couple aren't living together now or at any point but should prove that the couple never intended to live together in the first place. So , provided you can justify why you aren't living together at the moment i think you should be fine and i think your reasons are good enough (Job related).

Why can't you get a place of your own with both names on the lease agreement even though you could be meeting up at that place during weekends

I really dont understand you people! Why do you help such cases???
System is sometimes TOO gentle on all of us.... '' Couple dont need to live together''? .. MAybe if couple were livign for 30 years togehter and then better job offer came for one of them , in order to provide more for the family, but obviously, this couple JUST got married!!!! : )

Is this not obvious? Why do you support such cases.. I wil never understand. I am truly disappointed.

In the End, I have only 1 question for the guy: '' Why did you get married in the first place if you remain separated as you could still be a non-married couple???'' What difference did it make to both of you? I doubt you were genuine at the first place.. Im sorry..

I am only saying what i read from a previous judgement.

Obviously, its expected that a normal couple would live together soon after marriage but sometimes life isn't that straightforward for some people.

I know quite a lot of people who are happily married but work in live in jobs (catering, care work etc) that can require them to be weeks or months away from home. In that case is it fine then to insinuate that its a marriage of convenience just because for most of the time they are apart?

[Punjab]

they are treating this as a sham marrige or relation after noticing all the previous records of the applicant.

[rachellynn1972]

This individual came here for advice if you cannot give advice then just stay put, he said he is not in sham marriage and we have to agree with him for that, there are process under eu law to detect sham marriage, HO have to interview them before concluding not mere not living together. So advice him if you can, like i said get backup from families, friends and love ones, if he can get that and the eea spouse is ready to confront HO for concluding that on her marriage, then he has no problem. Moreover if HO have concluded it was a sham they will not have granted appeal they would have treated him as immigration on national law not eu law, not until that he is still the family of an eea.immigration on national law not eu law, not until that he is still the family of an eea.

[safr]

This individual came here for advice if you cannot give advice then just stay put, he said he is not in sham marriage and we have to agree with him for that, there are process under eu law to detect sham marriage, HO have to interview them before concluding not mere not living together. So advice him if you can, like i said get backup from families, friends and love ones, if he can get that and the eea spouse is ready to confront HO for concluding that on her marriage, then he has no problem. Moreover if HO have concluded it was a sham they will not have granted appeal they would have treated him as immigration on national law not eu law, not until that he is still the family of an eea.immigration on national law not eu law, not until that he is still the family of an eea.

Thank you rachellynn..I really appreciate your comments and quotation,Yes we can proof our relationship and Inshallah we will win.God Bless

[Godott]

This individual came here for advice if you cannot give advice then just stay put, he said he is not in sham marriage and we have to agree with him for that, there are process under eu law to detect sham marriage, HO have to interview them before concluding not mere not living together. So advice him if you can, like i said get backup from families, friends and love ones, if he can get that and the eea spouse is ready to confront HO for concluding that on her marriage, then he has no problem. Moreover if HO have concluded it was a sham they will not have granted appeal they would have treated him as immigration on national law not eu law, not until that he is still the family of an eea.immigration on national law not eu law, not until that he is still the family of an eea.

Thank you rachellynn..I really appreciate your comments and quotation,Yes we can proof our relationship and Inshallah we will win.God Bless

Good luck.

[Punjab]

This individual came here for advice if you cannot give advice then just stay put, he said he is not in sham marriage and we have to agree with him for that, there are process under eu law to detect sham marriage, HO have to interview them before concluding not mere not living together. So advice him if you can, like i said get backup from families, friends and love ones, if he can get that and the eea spouse is ready to confront HO for concluding that on her marriage, then he has no problem. Moreover if HO have concluded it was a sham they will not have granted appeal they would have treated him as immigration on national law not eu law, not until that he is still the family of an eea.immigration on national law not eu law, not until that he is still the family of an eea.

Mate you have to see all the options. read what he wrote and think deeply.
i am not juging here as its not my job but even a blind man can see whats going on here... and with all due respect HO people are wise enough to deal with these cases. ta

[Punjab]

I could be wrong but i think i read some judgement on the AIT website (related to a case of marriage of convenience) were an immigration judge commented that its not enough for UKBA to say a couple aren't living together now or at any point but should prove that the couple never intended to live together in the first place. So , provided you can justify why you aren't living together at the moment i think you should be fine and i think your reasons are good enough (Job related).

Why can't you get a place of your own with both names on the lease agreement even though you could be meeting up at that place during weekends

I really dont understand you people! Why do you help such cases???
System is sometimes TOO gentle on all of us.... '' Couple dont need to live together''? .. MAybe if couple were livign for 30 years togehter and then better job offer came for one of them , in order to provide more for the family, but obviously, this couple JUST got married!!!! : )

Is this not obvious? Why do you support such cases.. I wil never understand. I am truly disappointed.

In the End, I have only 1 question for the guy: '' Why did you get married in the first place if you remain separated as you could still be a non-married couple???'' What difference did it make to both of you? I doubt you were genuine at the first place.. Im sorry..

i hope the guy really read the line LIVING TOGETHER as HO knows its a drive of 1:40hr/mins from lon to essex

[rachellynn1972]

not Untill HO can prove that they dont intend to live together at the anytime and the EEA and the spouse accept it was a sham marriage, he is still the family of an EEA, this is not a spouse visa but an EEA Residence card on his right as a direct family. Check case law law that happen in Northern Ireland. The prove is on the HO not him. He said he can prove it is not a sham, then nobody should judge, leave that to the tribuner.

[rachellynn1972]

I will like you all to read this link from 53.4, most people confused the law on Spouse visa and EEA Residence.

http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/sitec ... iew=Binary#

53.4 Marriage to an EEA national
The EEA consists of the following countries:
Austria, Ireland (Eire), Belgium, Luxembourg, Denmark, the Netherlands, Finland,
Portugal, France, Spain, Germany, Sweden, Greece, United Kingdom, Italy,
Iceland, Norway, Liechtenstein, Cyprus, Czech Republic, Estonia, Hungary,
Latvia, Lithuania, Malta, Poland, Slovenia, Bulgaria, Romania, and Slovakia.
Marriage to an EEA national who is exercising Community rights gives a family member, such
as a spouse, the same rights to live and work in the United Kingdom as the EEA national. This
right to residence exists as a right; it is not necessary to hold a residence permit to prove this
right.
The Diatta judgement held that a family member only loses this right to residence if the EEA
national leaves the country permanently, or the EEA national no longer has a right of
residence in the United Kingdom, or on divorce (not just separation).
The Baumbast judgement found that where children of EEA nationals have a right to remain in
the Member State for the purpose of continuing their education, their third country national
parent/carer also has a right to remain, if that is necessary for the exercise by the children of
their rights. This means that the third country national spouses of EEA national workers in the
UK would have the right to remain here following their divorce from the EEA national or if the
EEA national ceased work here, provided that they were the principal carer of the EEA
national’s children in education here. That right would last until the end of the children’s studies
at secondary level
A non-EEA spouse who is party to a marriage of convenience has no right to be treated as a
family member. A marriage of convenience is a sham marriage undertaken solely for
immigration purposes. The couple have no intention from the outset of the marriage of living
together as man and wife in a settled and genuine relationship. It is not enough to say that the
couple are not living together at any given time; it must be proved that they never lived or
intended to live together.
The right to residency should not be confused with leave to enter or remain. Residency is an
automatic right upon marriage to an EEA national.

[nonspecifics]

I was under the impression that if they have a marriage certificate that is the legal proof it is a genuine marriage.

Then the burden of evidence is on UKBA to prove the marriage is false. UKBA can ( legally) only deprive an EEA national of their rights if they have FIRST proved the marriage is not genuine by properly investigating it. ( not just suspicion).

I agree with the other posters that it's best if you provide as much other evidence to support the marriage being genuine, as otherwise you might need to go from appeal to appeal to uphold your rights, cos UKBA will be suspicious because of your previous immigration history.

See this case law for a similar example:

http://www.courtsni.gov.uk/NR/rdonlyres ... 8final.htm

[rachellynn1972]

I was under the impression that if they have a marriage certificate that is the legal proof it is a genuine marriage.

Then the burden of evidence is on UKBA to prove the marriage is false. UKBA can ( legally) only deprive an EEA national of their rights if they have FIRST proved the marriage is not genuine by properly investigating it. ( not just suspicion).

I agree with the other posters that it's best if you provide as much other evidence to support the marriage being genuine, as otherwise you might need to go from appeal to appeal to uphold your rights, cos UKBA will be suspicious because of your previous immigration history.

See this case law for a similar example:

http://www.courtsni.gov.uk/NR/rdonlyres ... 8final.htm

This is the case i was talking about, even though the HO knew they are not living together the court say there are procedure to follow and the court allow in favour of the petitioner who is the non eea and ask HO to do Proper scrutiny not just suspeciouse.

[nonspecifics]

I am going off the initial subject ( naughty me) but, I wonder if UKBA did consequently follow correct legal procedure and investigate the case we used as an example of case law and what happened next?

Though maybe it would be an indicator of what will happen in the case of the original poster of the topic, if he cannot convince UKBA the relationship is genuine.

[nonspecifics]

There are those who cheat the system.

There are those who are cheated by the system.

Hopefully, the reason for this forum is that we share our knowledge and support so we help each other to LEGALLY obtain the rights we are entitled to, so nobody gets cheated.

The cheats already know how to cheat; the system knows how to cheat. They both know how to play the system to their own advantages.

Without forums like this it is the innocents who suffer most.

[safr]

just a little back ground of my case and status.I was on student visa.2009 Ho refuse to extend student visa because of gap b/w the commencement of course and month.even consideration rejected .Applied into another category FLR(O) rejection again.I am non-eaa national Applied for COA in December 2009.received approval on October 2010,Married November 2010,applied for residence card with bundle of proofs as bills,tenancy agreement,wife payslips,p60,bank statements,certificate of application send within 6 weeks time with right to work or take employment.HO visited our correspond address and found i was move 3 weeks ago,the house mates told them yes i was living with them but recently i moved but they don't know where i move that the only statement they given to ukba people.Basically my wife work in London and i work in Essex two different places and quite expensive travelling to commute every day,so we see each other on weekend i go to her place because she lives with her family friend,and i live in a rented room in other town as i mentioned earlier i work there,and it is quite obvious that you don't have to be under the one roof all the time circumstances varies.we are in a genuine relationship.Anyway they send us a rejection letter stated this is a marriage of convenience but given a right of appeal to tribunal and also it stated that they are thinking we are no more in any relationship.I sent a right of appeal form with the refusal explanation.Me and wife will go when they call us on hearing.I need advice ,any one has same experience/problem.What type of evidence we need to to proof that our relationship is existed,please help

...We sent all the required proof and now appeal been allowed by the tribnal,hearing next month My qestion is how important to involve the solicitor to deal my case,is that necessary to hire a lawyer or we both husband and wife with witness can attend hearing,honestly we have not sufficient fund to go through lawyer.Iknow my case is very complex,thas why iam here using this forum with the hope people gives us valuable advice and quotation.Regards

[treefriend]

Hi Safr,
when is ur hearing and where you live. Our eee2 was also refused on the almost similar grounds. Our hearing is on 2/09/11

best of luck

[safr]

Hi Safr,
when is ur hearing and where you live. Our eee2 was also refused on the almost similar grounds. Our hearing is on 2/09/11
thank you..yes i liv in ipswic.did u tak adv frm any solictor or you represntin your case wdot solictor..gud luk.we will inshallah win..m going wd my wife and witnesses..thas all i prepare..anway gudluk.
best of luck