HSMP Student detained pls help

[ramir.ramir]

hi guys

i need major help and cant believe that i have got myself into such a mess.

i've been in the uk for the last 2.5 years. for 1.5 years on WHV and then 1 year on hsmp and have gotten the extension no problems. i am about to start my full time mba (course fee paid and non refundable).

i just returned tonight from the EU on holiday and was detained at the airport as my HSMP woudlnt allow me to study. in the end they let me through. i am such a mess right now...what can i do to get myself onto the righ visa. i dont mind changing to the student visa if i have to, but as much as possible dont want to risk missing classes or risk being thrown out of the course.

pleeeaaase guys i need advice here.

do you think it would be ok to remain on hsmp until December and then go home to sort out my change to student visa over the Xmas holidays, or can the change be done while i'm in the uk?

pls pls pls help me.

many thanks
ramir

[rckybhardwaj]

I think it shud be written somewhere in the hsmp guidelines that we cannot study while on hsmp visa. That must be reason why the officials questionesd you. Just enquire if you would work about 20 hrs a week and study for the rest of the week will it be allright then. You could work sat and sun and study mon to fri. Complete your study and get a nice job that would be my advise.
Good luck

[ramir.ramir]

hey

thanks for getting back to me.

do you think i risk being deported as i am currently studying but on hsmp?

ramir

[rckybhardwaj]

hey ramir,
as far as i know till ur visa is valid for how many years no one can deport u mate. But it shud not be a problem when u go out of the country, when coming back just have to take note of the airport officers.
For how long is ur visa valid? and could i ask what course r u doing?
If ur course finishes in abt 1 year and u have couple of years more in ur visa then afterwards u can work in a nice job.

[ramir.ramir]

hey thanks

the course is a full time mba.

just to be clear are you saying that since theyve let me return to the uk and my hsmp visa only expires in may 2010, that they cant come to me and say that i shouldnt be here and tell me to leave?

thanks
ramir

[rckybhardwaj]

yaa man, dont worry no one can touch u till 2010, its only after 2010 i am saying if u wanna apply for an ILR it shud not be a problem for u.
Even i wanna study here and have a very good course in mind, but a bit afraid as i dont know will it have an impact on my ilr.

[ramir.ramir]

ok ok

but what should i say to the immigration officer at the aiport if say i leave the uk for holiday / family and want to come back into the country.

i am worried since they detained me that they have a record for me as maybe on the wrong visa?

should i say that i am studying or working in the uk?

ramir

[olisun]

as far as i know till ur visa is valid for how many years no one can deport u mate.

where did you get this info from???

[rckybhardwaj]

hi der,
just came from shopping.
ramir if u go out and come back into the country then u cud have a problem i meant that. Not if u r in the country and studying.
Coz hsmp is for work not for studying i suppose. well is it written anywhere in hsmp that we cannot study.
Regarding deporting while you are here studying on hsmp i personally dont think they are much bothered. I dont think HO is going to see ur record and come at your house. But best thing is work sat and sun that shud make the situation a lil comfortable.

[radam]

Hi Ramir

At this junction I would advise you to review your decision to do Full time MBA. Especially if you plan to stay in the UK post MBA. 2 Reason:
1. You arent legally allowed to study while on HSMP but ofcourse they arent going to come hunting for you. However when your ILR application goes in this can become a major issue as it will be very difficult for you to prove full time employment for 1 whole year. And if they have any records on their systems it will become a bigger mess.

2. On the flip side if you convert to Student Visa, you will lose your 2.5 years of work permit and your count down for PR will begin again after you convert Student to HSMP/WP. This happened to of one of our batch mates when we were doing MBA.

The best thing to do is get those 5 yrs done, get your PR in hand and then you are a free man to do whatever you want to.

In case you decide to opt out of Studies, please take a letter from the Uni stating that you have dropped out so that you can attach that to your ILR later just in case

Regards

Amol

[ramir.ramir]

cool thanks for the advice, but i've already started my uni and have paid the fees. do you think that i can change to student visa without a problem as i am currently on hsmp but studying...so technically on the wrong visa at the current moment.

do you think i can leave the change to student for a few months when i return to my country for xmas?

thanks again
ramir

[ramir.ramir]

can anyone help me out with this further

moderators / senior members please advise.

[nannu]

hi

this is sad to hear about you. anyway the best guys you can talk to are HSMP customer service on 01142076020. check with them if you can legally continue to stay in UK as a student on HSMP.

best wishes

[itsme]

ramir,

could you post the exact scenario that took place in the airport along with the questions asked. This helps to analyse the situation and experts can give advice.

[ramir.ramir]

ok

at the airport the immigration officer asked me what i am dong in the uk.
- i said that i am a student. this is what i filled in on my landing card.
- i was told to take a seat and my passport taken away by the officer
- waited about 1 hour
- given a letter stating that my passport has been detained / i am being detained.
- 2 officers came with me and collected my suitcase
- officers searched my suitcase
- waited 30 mins
- oifficer took me to a back room (holding room)
- took my mugshot
- checked my luggage into a holding area in the room
- put me in an interview room
- security guy searched me
- immigration officer then asked me questions about my studies
- moved me to holding room with others being detained / awaiting deportation.
- officer came back later and took me to interview room
- explained that they will let me in to the uk but thathe doubts that i can study on hsmp
- told me next time i enter the uk i mustnt say anything about studying and must just say that i am working !
- let me go

what freaks me out is that i dont want to lie next time at immigration and get caught out / get deported / denied entry.

well thats about it.

advice much appreciated on how to convert hsmp to student and can i wait to do this for a few months during xmas hols?

thanks to all
ramir

[pantaiema]

Certainly, we should assume that HSMP residence permit visa is not intended for studying. However, I think they cannot detained you because there is not any HO documents mentioning cleraly that HSMP residence permit holder cannot study. Thus this is still a grey area.

I read the previous posting that it is written somewhere that HSMP residence permit cannot be used to study. Those who raise this issue could you please shed the light where ithe document is ?

Of cource better if you drop your study. However if this is not the option,
I think next time you better say I am looking for a Job (this is just my opinion and this is open for discussion). HSMP residence permit give you the right to stay in the UK even without the job as long as you could maintain your self without recourse of public fund.

Pantaiema

ok
- told me next time i enter the uk i mustnt say anything about studying and must just say that i am working !
- let me go
ramir

[PASS]

2.5 yrs - WP
1.0 yr- HSMP
4.0 yrs- HSMP extension (based on expiry 2010)

The information is contradicting very much, know why none of the senior members did not respond!

A. Why on the earth a person completed 3.5 yrs goes for MBA!! to invalidate his stay?

B. Don't think HO issues 4 yrs extension if anyone had done 3.5 yrs already in alike catagory!!!

C. Study already started - None of the UK uni. starts MBA in August.

If this is a genuine case, MBA study could be postponed, universities normally accept that (with fee retained until you start at later stage)!

[itsme]

2.5 yrs - WP
1.0 yr- HSMP
4.0 yrs- HSMP extension (based on expiry 2010)

The information is contradicting very much, know why none of the senior members did not respond!

A. Why on the earth a person completed 3.5 yrs goes for MBA!! to invalidate his stay?

B. Don't think HO issues 4 yrs extension if anyone had done 3.5 yrs

PASS, i second you, exactly i too have same thoughts.....hope this is a genuine case.......

[ramir.ramir]

hey guys

i can assure you that i am a genuine case. i would not want to waste your time and mine writing some ficticous story.

to give you the exact timings:
1. arrived late jan 2004 on Working Holdiday Visa
2. Converted to HSMP May 2005
3. Extended HSMP in May 2006 and this is the visa that I am on now.

I didn't say that I was on WP (sorry if i confused anyone). My uni has indeed started and i'm in the 1st week.

Please advise....I would appreciate your help greatly as i am in such a predicament.

many many thanks
ramir

[PASS]

Thanks.

You might think that you have 4 more years to stay, complete MBA in 9-10 months time and use remainder part of HSMP to get a job without any problem. Well, it might work now but not at the time of ILR (I doubt ), even getting extension at that point may be a problem because it may be considered as misuse of original intend of HSMP Visa issued to you.

If you inform HO about your current/existing status (referring to your detention at entry) and ask whether you can do studies with HSMP? i.e, you made aware the changes to them.They may not reply but sooner or later they add a clause in HSMP application that the holder of this visa is not permitted to undertake any studies (without specifying part-time or full-time) . After this, X or Y will have to battle again to study part-time with HSMP whilst he/she works. This is exactly so called exploitation of freedom/opportunities. Part-time study is acceptable at the moment although it is not mentioned anywhere.

The ideal option is to continue your MBA (forfeiting about a year stay under HSMP) with Student Visa and reapply for HSMP around your MBA finishes. Since you have already started your studies you brought the issue (bold letter) forward.

Summary: Deal with it as you think the best way and let us know the outcome if you could.

[ramir.ramir]

hey thanks...

anyone else have any advice?

much appreciated.

ramir

[Smit]

Studying full time on leave to remain under the HSMP is a violation of the conditions of leave to enter/remain in the UK.

You should apply immediately to switch to student status using the FLR(S) form available on the IND website.

I do not know for certain whether it is possible to switch from HSMP to student in country so to be on the safe side, you should send a covering letter requesting for an in country switch under compelling circumstances given that your MBA has already commenced and it woud not be viable for you to apply for student EC in your home country.

You will of course have to reapply for HSMP in the future if required.

[ramir.ramir]

Smit - thanks for the reply.

I've read some of the legislation about the HSMP...it just seems to say that a person has to be "economically active". It doesn't expressly forbid studying.

Would it be stretching the law too much for the following:
- I start a consulting business incorporated as a company of which I am a director.
- Get an accountant / company secretary and all that good stuff that can be done quite cheaply.
- Dedicate time to it and once in a while actually earn some taxable income through it

Would the above not make me "economically active" and thereby I would operate within the terms of the HSMP. ie as long as I am economically active, whatever I do in my free time ie not work or study or holiday is my business?

What are the rules for economically active?

Many many thanks
ramir

[arm]

Hi folks,

I understand that the main HSMP goal is to work full time so study for HSMP holders may not be alowed but can your dependant study with her Visa???

[ZINX]

I think people who are saying that studying on HSMP is ILLEGAL are saying just because of their own interpretation and don't have any real-clause or evidence to substantiate their opinion.

My logic says if you can be economically active by any way, as of the law it should be fine.

People can be in UK on HSMP searching for job for 1 year so why not study to improve the job prospects.

Ramir, please understand that you got detained only because of you gave a wrong impression to passport authorities saying that you are student, for them, logic is simple if a person is student then he should have a student visa and if a person has HSMP he should be working. On any deviation they will go RED and won't know what to do. You were let go because there wasn't any real issue, otherwise you they wouldn't have allowed you to go. Which is sort of false alarm trigger because the passport officer couldn't match the visa and task relationship.

At this time people have become highly suspicious of anything that feels strange to them.

I think if you work on weekend or in free time and next time if you are asked what you do in UK and you say that you are working, it won't be a lie.

No-where its written that a person on HSMP has to do full-time work. All ti says is that person on HSMP should be economically active, which is vague, I suppose it has been kept vague because they can't really classify who is working and who is not .. as long as the person is earning and not dependent on state fund its ok with UK authorities.

Those who are sayng that there will be trouble in ILR, do they have any substantial proof to say that or they are just expressing their opinion.