Comprehensive Sickness Insurance

[nikkosan]

Hi everybody,

My partner and I are almost ready to send his EEA2 application package, but we're having problems finding a suitable CSI provider.

We knew of WPA, but today, as we were online trying to purchase CSI, we discovered that in order to join their plans, one must be resident in the UK for more than 6 months and must also be registered with NHS General Pratitioner. We're neither since we've only arrived here two months ago.

Any advice would be greatly appreciated. Do you know of any other insurance company that is accepted by UKBA, and that does not have the same 6 month requirement as WPA?

Have you ever heard of this "condition" to be met?
We spoke with WPA on the phone and they said the underwriter has put this clause in because of fraud in the past.

Thank you once again for your help.

Best regards,
Nikkosan

[nikkosan]

Update 9/9/2011:

Also spoke with BUPA this morning, they mentioned the same 6-month rule, and the fact that we need to be registered with a GP.

I'm a student (EEA Italy), partner is self sufficient (US Citizen).

This is crazy. How is someone supposed to get CSI if there are rules set in place preventing people who have just arrived to get into a CSI contract with an insurer?

[nonspecifics]

Surely, it is a good idea to register with a GP as soon as possible, as you never know when you might get ill and need to see a doctor. In the UK, medicines, such as antibiotics, are only available by doctor's prescription.

Your health is more important than sorting out your paperwork.

As part of the agreement to insure you, any insurer will probably require you to consent to them accessing your medical records held with your GP.

How can they do that if you do not have a GP or medical records in the UK?

UKBA now accept EHIC cards issued by the EEA national's country as evidence of CSI, but self-sufficient / students also need CSI for all family members ( even if the family members work and pay tax to help fund the NHS).

This problem of CSI is maybe best considered BEFORE moving to the UK. Perhaps a longer-term travel or ex-patriate insurance would cover those who come to the UK until they qualify for CSI policies as a UK resident?

Also, check the terms of your original country's insurance cover. Cover may sometimes continue for months or perhaps up to a year even when you are absent from that country.

[86ti]

Specialised expat insurances do indeed exist. Nobody says that the CSI must be obtained from a UK insurer. As I understand it (almost?) all of those insurances are topups only anyway as it is assumed that NHS would cover basic treatments.

[nikkosan]

Nonspecifics,

The problem here seems to be the disparity of treatment.

I had never thought about CSI before, simply because I thought the EHIC card would have been fine, for both myself and my partner...Now I know better, but I don't think it would hold up as a good excuse with UKBA.

Also not sure whether registering with a GP is an option for us right now, since time is of the essence in sending our application.

What bothers me the most is that while BUPA, WPA, CS Health have declined to offer us CSI, other companies (Aviva) have sent us quotes that we're currently looking at as we speak.

P.S. Sorry about asking you to call WPA, didn't realize when I first read your post that you weren't the original creator of the thread!

Specialised expat insurances do indeed exist. Nobody says that the CSI must be obtained from a UK insurer. As I understand it (almost?) all of those insurances are topups only anyway as it is assumed that NHS would cover basic treatments.

My partner has dual insurance in the US (BlueCross BlueShield of Massachusetts), but they don't offer international cover (some other BCBS do).

We have received quotes from Aviva and PruHealth, and we're leaning towards Aviva. I did search the forum for Aviva, but no definite answers as to whether it is accepted or not.

[86ti]

Yes, the real problem is that it seems not clear what the UKBA would accept eventually and there is little guidance from then on that.

[nonspecifics]

It's a bit confusing cos I think 2 threads are running with the same subject: CSI.

Maybe a moderators could merge them or lock one and refer them to the one thread?

[nikkosan]

Yes, the real problem is that it seems not clear what the UKBA would accept eventually and there is little guidance from then on that.

Absolutely...!

We will most definitely go with Aviva.

Should we also include my EHIC card as well as his US insurance card?

[86ti]

I think, the actual idea of the EHIC is to cover the insuree for temporary visits in another member state for up to three months. You would need additional cover for a longer period (and you may simply use the EHIC for treatment when necessary). Do you have that? The UKBA indeed mentions the EHIC in their documentations but it is very unclear to me what they actually mean there and how they would check what cover the card includes.

[nikkosan]

From what I understand, they do accept the EHIC card from students, however, you need to be here only temporary (from day X to day Y), and specifically mention that in a covering letter: NOT worth it.

Furthermore, it wouldn't cover my partner anyway.

I was just wondering whether it could be a good thing to send the "extra" information (our other insurance cards) along with the other documents, or if we should just stick with the AVIVA letter that we will eventually get once we sign up with them.

[nonspecifics]

You are welcome Nikkosan ( regarding WPA call on other thread).

UKBA seem to have significantly weakened or changed their attitudes to EHIC, if you read the June 2011 caseworker notes for Residence cards and PR.

I read about the declaration of "temporary". I didn't know you had to declare exact dates.

What if you declare a date then change your mind. Could UKBA say you breached the declaration so we are refusing to accept the EHIC as CSI now? Would this stand up in law? It's a new thing, so I suppose we will find that out in the future when PR applications come up based on EHIC as CSI.

In the Baumbast case his CSI was in Germany ( because his employer was a German company and it seems health insurance is partly funded by German employers), but he proved he had CSI so could get treated there and so that was not an unreasonable burden on the NHS. Obviously not in emergencies, but as often highlighted on here - it seems no standard CSI in the UK offers emergency cover. Only NHS hospitals have Accident and Emergency Depts.

Another case from a welfare tribunal partly focused on the appellant having no CSI ; but she had a pension from Sweden. Swedish social security laws entitled their pensioners to be eligible for Swedish health cover - even when not in Sweden, if they continued to draw a Swedish pension.

At the tribunal The Sec of State finally accepted the appellant had CSI but said that, as the appellant had been using the NHS for their healthcare, those costs will be recovered from Sweden.

[86ti]

From what I understand, they do accept the EHIC card from students, however, you need to be here only temporary (from day X to day Y), and specifically mention that in a covering letter: NOT worth it.

That doesn't make much sense to me. A residence card would only be useful for longer stays (and one wouldn't get one for the first few months). Maybe they just refer here to prolonged but temporary covers provided by other European health insurers on the EHIC.

I was just wondering whether it could be a good thing to send the "extra" information (our other insurance cards) along with the other documents, or if we should just stick with the AVIVA letter that we will eventually get once we sign up with them.

I do not see how including cards for insurances that won't cover you would help.

[86ti]

Another case from a welfare tribunal partly focused on the appellant having no CSI ; but she had a pension from Sweden. Swedish social security laws entitled their pensioners to be eligible for Swedish health cover - even when not in Sweden, if they continued to draw a Swedish pension.

I think there is an EU regulation (don't have the number anymore) that deals with such transfers. Pensioners should be covered by their insurance no matter in which member state they live.

[nikkosan]

That doesn't make much sense to me. A residence card would only be useful for longer stays (and one wouldn't get one for the first few months). Maybe they just refer here to prolonged but temporary covers provided by other European health insurers on the EHIC.

I know, but that's what they require if you want to use it. Go figure!

I do not see how including cards for insurances that won't cover you would help.

That pretty much answers my question...I just wanted to have further advice, that's all.

Thanks!

[Directive/2004/38/EC]

Yes, the real problem is that it seems not clear what the UKBA would accept eventually and there is little guidance from then on that.

http://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/e ... es_and_csi though there does not seem to be an answer yet...

[nikkosan]

Thank you, Directive/2004/38/EC.

Very interesting.

I'll be keeping an eye on that webpage.