APPLYING FOR A VISA AT THE EXTERNAL BORDERS

[toabetterchange]

Hello,

Could anyone please answer,

Just wondering if Ryanair airline in the UK check "visas" before flying to another EU country?

I do not hold the required visa for Germany but I intend to apply for it at the border with my EU partner.

[eldane]

Hello,

Could anyone please answer,

Just wondering if Ryanair airline in the UK check "visas" before flying to another EU country?

I do not hold the required visa for Germany but I intend to apply for it at the border with my EU partner.

I wish you good luck travelling without visa even if you are not required to hold one. Ryan air is renowned for not allowing anyone boarding without visas if non-EU

TRAVEL DOCUMENTATION
http://www.ryanair.com/en/terms-and-con ... umentation

It is each passenger's personal responsibility to ensure that he or she has valid travel documentation which meets the requirements of Ryanair, immigration and other authorities at every destination. Please also note that

A valid travel document is required by all passengers travelling on Ryanair flights (including infants)
A passport for travel outside the EEA (European Economic Area) must be valid for period of intended stay
If a visa is applicable any children/infants must be travelling with the adult named on a visa vignette

In order to ensure compliance, passengers should carry a valid passport (and visa if applicable) or EU/EEA government issued national identification card on all journeys. Any fines, penalties, payments or expenditures incurred as a result of breach of these requirements shall be paid by or charged to you.

Ryanair does NOT accept driver licences, residence cards, family books, seaman books, a police report (issued in the event of travel document loss/theft), military ID cards etc. Expired or damaged forms of photo-id will not be accepted on any flight.

Details of all passengers’ travel documents (including those of children and infants) must be entered during the online check-in process. All passengers must present their valid travel document along with their online boarding pass at airport security and at the boarding gate for all flights.

THE ONLY FORMS OF TRAVEL DOCUMENTS ACCEPTED ON RYANAIR FLIGHTS ARE:

A valid passport – (see below - */and ** below)
A valid National Identity Card issued by the government of a European Economic Area (EEA) country. (Only the following EEA countries currentlyissue National Identity Cards acceptable for carriage on Ryanair flights: Austria, Belgium, Bulgaria, Finland, France, Germany, Gibraltar, Greece, Cyprus, Czech Republic, Estonia, Hungary, Italy, Liechtenstein, Lithuania, Luxembourg, Netherlands, Malta, Poland, Portugal, Romania, Slovakia, Slovenia, Spain, Sweden, Switzerland)
A valid German Government issued ‘Kinderausweis’ travel document
A valid Italian ‘Certificato Di Nascita’ (for use by children under 16 years) which has been endorsed as ‘VALIDO PER L'ESPATRIO’ for travel on international flights, no endorsement is required when travelling on Italian domestic flights.. It is the passenger's personal responsibility to ensure that this document meets the requirements of immigration and other governmental authorities at the destination airport - see ** below.
A valid Italian AT/BT card (for Italian domestic flights only).
A valid UN Refugee Convention Travel Document – (issued in accordance with Article 28(1) of the 1951 UN Convention, by a Government in place of a valid passport.)
A valid Convention Travel Document – (issued in accordance with Article 27 of the 1954 UN Convention for Stateless Persons, by a contracting state in place of a valid passport)
A valid Collective Passport issued by an EU/EEA country

* It is acceptable for children under 16 to travel on the valid passport of the parent with whom they are travelling, if they are included on that passport.

** When a child is listed on the valid passport of the parent with whom they are travelling the accompanying adult’s travel document details must be duplicated in the child’s document details section during the online check-in process.

[acme4242]

They will check, and based upon their database information, they will deny you boarding.

While EU law makes its clear that EU family members have an automatic right
of entry when they accompany their EU spouse or parent.
The Schengen Border Guard handbook, also makes this very clear,
and visas are suppose to be issued at the border.

But the EU commission has passed on immigration and visa checking
duties to the airline on pain of financial penalties.

For this, the EU commission interact with an organisation called
IATA, for airlines, The IATA database says
http://www.delta.com/planning_reservati ... /index.jsp

Visa required, except for A max. stay of 3 months:

- for those, irrespective of nationality, holding family
member" residence permit issued by United Kingdom to a
family member of an EEA national TIRGL/EEA or national
of Switzerland, provided travelling with or travelling to
join the EEA national or national of Switzerland;

So Ryanair and all airlines will deny you boarding, because you don't
have the visa in your passport or a RC, even though you are entitled to
obtain the visa at entry into the other EU state.

In this regard I contacted IATA last year, but to date nothing has
been corrected in their database.
Perhaps you can raise your case with them.

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: TIM Editing (INDP) <timediting@iata.org>
Date: Mon, Oct 25, 2010 at 2:02 PM
Subject: [Z:2828] Timatic data for EU family members.



Dear Mr ------

Many thanks for your mail.

We are currently investigating this matter, in light of the new Visa Code that came into effect this year and are current awaiting clarification from the EC in Brussels on family members who are not residents within the EEA and Switzerland.
Kind regards,
Paul MOTTRAM
Database Publisher
IATA Netherlands Data Publications
Tel +31 (0)20 403 7951
Fax +31 (0)20 403 7985
timediting.indp@iata.org

IATA Netherlands Data Publications
Frankfurtstraat 2-8, 1175 RH Lijnden
P.O. Box 49, 1170 AA Badhoevedorp
The Netherlands
www.iata.org


For problem reporting, please contact SITA helpdesk: GSC.MONTREAL@SITA.AERO tel: +1 514 2825621

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: acme !!
Sent: Wednesday, October 20, 2010 12:14 PM
To: Timatic (INDP)
Subject: Timatic data for EU family members.


Dear Timatic,

I wish to query the accuracy of the Timatic entry for visa
requirements for the spouse and family members of EU Citizens,
who accompany or join their EU family member in the EU.

It seems the Current Timatic data does not comply with the EU
Directives and the Schengen Border Guard Handbook.

If such EU family members do not have the required visa,
the EU or Schengen Border Guard must issue it at the border.
or let them proceed, if they have their marriage cert or other
proof of family-hood.

The current entry in Timatic does not mention this, resulting
in wrongful refused boarding based on Timatic data.
Can you please update Timatic to comply with the EU Directives and
Schengen Border Guard Handbook.

Schengen Border Guard Handbook
http://register.consilium.europa.eu/pdf ... 0.en06.pdf

EU Directive 2004/38/EC
http://eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/Lex ... 123:EN:PDF

==========================


According to the Schengen Border Guard Handbook
http://register.consilium.europa.eu/pdf ... 0.en06.pdf

3. Special rules for checks on certain categories of persons
3.1 Persons enjoying the Community right of free movement
3.1.1 Persons enjoying the Community right of free movement are authorised to cross the border
of a Member State on the basis of the following documents, as a general rule:
– EU, EEA, CH citizens: identity card or passport;
– members of the family of EU, EEA, CH citizens who are nationals of a third country:
passport. They may also be required to have an entry visa, if they are nationals of a third
country subject to the visa obligation, unless they are in possession of a valid residence
permit or card, issued by a Member State (or by EEA countries or CH).

3.1.2 However, if a person enjoying the Community right of free movement does not have the
necessary travel documents or, if required, the necessary visas, the Member State
concerned must, before turning him/her back, give such person every reasonable
opportunity to obtain the necessary documents or have them brought to him/her within a
reasonable period of time or corroborate or prove by other means that he/she is covered by
the right of free movement.


EU Directive 2004/38/EC says the following
==========================
http://eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/Lex ... 123:EN:PDF

Article 5
Right of entry

4. Where a Union citizen, or a family member who is not a national of a Member State, does not
have the necessary travel documents or, if required, the necessary visas, the Member State
concerned shall, before turning them back, give such persons every reasonable opportunity to obtain
the necessary documents or have them brought to them within a reasonable period of time or to
corroborate or prove by other means that they are covered by the right of free movement and
residence.
==========================

kind regards
acme..

[venusz79]

Hi everyone! im new in here, but i hope someone can help me. i need to clarify an information that i found on EEA FP website.

Well, im EEA national (Slovakia) my husband is Turkish (non EEA). we got married this year in July in Turkey. Our marridge certificate has been appostolised, so it is accepted in 7 countries. My husband is still in Turkey. Im living and working in UK 7years now. We are going back to my country to visit my family in October.

The question is: CAN MY HUSBAND TRAVEL WITH ME FROM SVK TO UK?

as i said, i saw on EEA FP website, that if an EEA citizen exercising her/his treaty rights in UK, that a none EEA citizen can travel with her/him and can enter UK without EEA FP application, however he will have to apply within one month for the EEA FC once he will be in UK.

Is this right? we really need to know. I will take my work contract, payslip, bill and also i have managed to find a flat for us, so i have our tenancy agreement as well.

Please can someone tell me is this is true? apparently if i would be British, he will not be able to do this. but as im EEA citizen I can accompanied him when he is travelling.

we tried UK embassy to get information, and the website as well, but they are useless...

I would appreciate your help as we are traveling to SVK on th 19th. He is coming from Turkey and i will be flying from London.

Reading now the above, im s****ing myself, bc it means stupid Rayniar will not let my husband on the board...this is so CRAZY!!!!

any advise?

[venusz79]

well,i just found this on the website. i think this will help


No visa but still want to travel?

Are you a direct family member of an EU citizen and you need to travel within Europe with your EU family member, but do not have a required visa?

If you have a “Residence Cardâ€

[acme4242]

You are Slovakian, your spouse is a non-EU citizen,
The British Law allows for entry without EEA-Family permit provided
you can convince the Immigration Control that your spouse is your
spouse

So there is no problem from the legal side, but there might be
a problem when you want to get on an aeroplane without
either a visa or EU Family residence card.

For link to the British Law and British Border Guard instructions
please see
http://acme.posterous.com/if-no-eea-british-visa

(4) Before an immigration officer refuses admission to the United Kingdom to a person under this regulation because the person does not produce on arrival a document mentioned in paragraph (1) or (2), the immigration officer must give the person every reasonable opportunity to obtain the document or have it brought to him within a reasonable period of time or to prove by other means that he is—

(b)a family member of an EEA national with a right to accompany that national or join him in the United Kingdom;

Although we prefer that they obtain one preentry in order to facilitate their travel an EEA family permit is not mandatory. Regulation 11(4) of the Immigration (EEA) Regulations 2006 allows a person to provide other proof of their right to enter the UK, if they do not have an EEA family permit, residence card or permanent residence card

[venusz79]

http://www.ukresident.com/content/artic ... -card-r142

[venusz79]

hi Acme..

thank u for this...i have found a very good website where they explaining these things.

im not worried to enter UK im worried as we flying with Raynair and i know they are pain.....but i read stories on the website and they say, if we can show them the regulation ect, they cannot refuse.

also raynair clearly says, that the passenger has to pay for the fees if refused entry, which is elagal, but as i know he will not be im happy to accept it

[acme4242]

You can try, but you will need a lot of luck to get past Ryanair check-in.
Please let us know how it goes. Otherwise if you do apply for the UK
visa remember its free of charge for EU family members.

Here is what all Airline Staff will see when they check their database
As an aside, note, no mention of EU residence card, as currently the UK
don't accept other EU Family member residence cards.

http://www.timaticweb.com/cgi-bin/tim_w ... r=DELTAB2C

National Turkey (TR) /Residence Slovakia (SK)
Destination United Kingdom (GB)

Passport required.
- Passport and/or passport replacing documents must be valid
for the period of intended stay.

Visa required.

[venusz79]

i will let you know definetly, but im finding now websites where it clearly stats that they can travel.

if Raynair will not let him on the plain i can sue them for discrimination.

they should have an up to date system and they should have be aware of none eea traveling with an eea member.

[venusz79]

this is what they advise:

These are suggestions that may ease your entry without a visa. They should not be taken as legal advice and come with no guarantee. If you want a guarantee, get a visa!
European free movement rules apply when traveling to an EU country different than the citizenship of the EU family member. e.g. If the EU family member has French citizenship, then the rules apply for entry into all EU countries other than France. These rules only apply for travel back to the EU “home countryâ€

[Directive/2004/38/EC]

I wrote most of this. The original article is at http://eumovement.wordpress.com/2010/08 ... to-travel/ and has a lot more context with it.

[quote="venusz79"]this is what they advise:

These are suggestions that may ease your entry without a visa. They should not be taken as legal advice and come with no guarantee. If you want a guarantee, get a visa!
European free movement rules apply when traveling to an EU country different than the citizenship of the EU family member. e.g. If the EU family member has French citizenship, then the rules apply for entry into all EU countries other than France. These rules only apply for travel back to the EU “home countryâ€

[toabetterchange]

Hello there,

Well my partner travel this wednesday so i will try to travel as well, I am preparing the documents so I can show them, I already paid ticket

I will let you know!