proxy marriage apllication refused .. help pls !!!

[emmyfem20]

hey guys
i have this problem with the HO about my application. i made an eaa2 application in june, using my a marriage certificate issued from my home country .. the HO refused my application saying that they cant accept the certificate because the date me and my wife signed it i wasnt in my country then so it cannot have been issued from from country, they gave me an option to appeal or reapply or leave.. i am thinking of reapplying but i dont know how to go about it .. has anyone had any application using a proxy marriage .. can you give me ideas what to do please.. thank you ..urgent plssssssssssssss

[Lucapooka]

In order for your proxy marriage to be recognised by the UK, you would have been required to be present in the country where the proxy marriage laws are legal. For example, a Brazilian marrying a Brit by proxy; the Brazilian must be in Brazil at the time of the marriage. (the time being when contracts were signed).

http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/sitec ... iew=Binary

What this boils down to is whether your country accepts the marriage as legal . That would be the basis of the appeal.

[emmyfem20]

thank you .. the marriage is legal and the certificate was issued legally from my country and sent to us to sign it . but the HO is saying that because it was signed the same that and i wasnt there it cant be accepted.. im thinking of maybe doing a uk wedding but the ho is got my passport and i would need it for id in the registry office..

[Directive/2004/38/EC]

Where were you physically when you got married? From which country is the marriage certificate?

[emmyfem20]

me and my wife are both physically in the uk and the certificate was issued from nigeria

[Directive/2004/38/EC]

I think you are going to have a problem getting it recognized in the UK.

What are your citizenships?

[emmyfem20]

i am nigerian and my wife is french ... so what do you suggest i should do ?

[Lucapooka]

me and my wife are both physically in the uk and the certificate was issued from nigeria

The UK won't recognise this as valid. Why don't you simply marry in the UK

[emmyfem20]

am thinking of that but the ho has got my passport and i would need it as id to go to the registry office .. or are there any other form of id they take in the registry office ?

[Lucapooka]

That's a question for the registry office.

[emmyfem20]

do you know if they is a deadline for reapplying after being refused pls ? just wondering so i dont make any silly mistake

[Lucapooka]

You can re-apply at any time. However, in your case the deadline for re-applying will be any time after your legal marriage.

[Obie]

The UK recognises proxy marriages, at least for the purpose of immigration, if such marriage is recognise in the country where it was conducted.

By law you cannot remarry twice.

I believe you should appeal this decision as replying may result in the same result, which i must say is contrary to the secretary of states policy.

[Directive/2004/38/EC]

Was this a telephone marriage or a proxy marriage?

The UK recognises proxy marriages, at least for the purpose of immigration, if such marriage is recognise in the country where it was conducted.

I think it is more complicated than that.

Annex B: Recognition of Marriage and Divorce talks about a number of these issues from a UKBA perspective:

3.2. Telephone marriages

The formal validity of a telephone marriage is to be determined according to the laws of the countries in which both parties are physically present when the marriage takes place. Therefore, a telephone marriage celebrated whilst one of the parties is in the United Kingdom will not be valid as telephone marriages are not valid in this country.

In cases where the UK-based sponsor was overseas when a telephone marriage took place and the laws of both countries recognise such marriages, we cannot deny that the marriage is valid. Enquiries about the marriage laws of other countries may be referred to Policy.

[Obie]

On the European caseworkers guidance, caseworkers are supposed to refer proxy marriage cases to a senior caseworker. It is not a straightforward matter.

Telephone marriage is quite different from a proxy marriage.

A proxy marriage by definition, is marriage conducted in circumstance where one or both couple (Double proxy) are not present in the place where the ceremony was conducted. Either or both of them are represented by a family member or close relation who stands on their behalf. If this is accepted in the Jurisdiction where this marriage was conducted, then it should be recognised by the UK.

In telephone marriage, the marriage is conducted via phone, there is no proxy.

I read an unreported case recently involving a Gambian and German couple who were both resident in the UK, and had conducted the proxy marriage in Gambia. The tribunal upheld that such marriages are recognised in the UK, as the Gambian authorities recognises it as valid and in accordance with their law.

[Kitty]

See also:

http://freemovement.wordpress.com/2008/ ... marriages/

[Obie]

Thanks for the link kitty. I thought there was a reported case on proxy marriages but i was too busy over the weekend to dig further. CB Brazil is certainly the one.

[Lucapooka]

Yes, but the Brazilian was in Brazil when the marriage was contracted.

[Obie]

No, that is not correct. If you read the determination closely, you will notice that both couple were domicile in the UK at the time of the marriage.

[Lucapooka]

I stand corrected.

[Directive/2004/38/EC]

It looks like they were both Domiciled in the UK and ??? were both present in the UK as well.

[david v Goliath]

hey guys
i have this problem with the HO about my application. i made an eaa2 application in june, using my a marriage certificate issued from my home country .. the HO refused my application saying that they cant accept the certificate because the date me and my wife signed it i wasnt in my country then so it cannot have been issued from from country, they gave me an option to appeal or reapply or leave.. i am thinking of reapplying but i dont know how to go about it .. has anyone had any application using a proxy marriage .. can you give me ideas what to do please.. thank you ..urgent plssssssssssssss

I think you are all missing the underlying issue or what the HO finds to be the "problem" hence the refusal. From what emmyfem20 said above, the HO refused on the following basis:

1) The marriage certificate was signed by the married couples although the marriage was contracted by proxies.

2) The date which the couples put on the certificate as the date the couples signed the certificate meant they were they at the time the proxy marriage was contracted and that is why the HO are saying if the couple signed the certificate on a date around which the marriage was contracted in Nigeria whiles the couple claimed they were in the UK then the Certificate could not possibly have come from Nigeria.

To the best of my knowledge marriage by proxy certificates are signed by the proxies in the presence of the registrar or commissioner for Oath. If there are special places that need to be signed by the couples, it is only their names that can be typed in those places back home at where the certificate is being issued.

If the certificate or any other related documents get signed by the couples when they get them in the UK. I think it technically invalidates the certificate because there are no witnesses or Registrar present and officiating it in their house where it got signed.