EEA 4 refusal- What to do next

[Regulator56]

Hello Folks,

I am in a bit of a pickle, and I will appreciate your inputs. I am an Australian guy married to a German lady, we have been married for 8 years and we have three boys together. We lived in Melbourne for 2 and a half years and we decided to come to the UK in 2005.

We had high hopes for the family and we decided to start a family, my first son was born in 2006, she lost a baby in 2007, gave birth again in 2009 and surprisingly again in 2010..( I know we were quite busy). During the period 2005- 2009, she worked for just 8 months while I worked for 2 years.

She worked in 2005 but had to stop work because she got pregnant, after the delivery of our first son, she went back to another job, after a few weeks, she had a miscarraige and was in hospital for weeks which meant she had to quit her job. She got pregnant again in 2008 and gave birth late 2008.

All the time, she registered as unemployed with the jobcentre and started a Bachelors degree in 2009, we found out she was pregnant again and she gave birth to our third son early 2010. She has continued her studies regardless and she is in her third year at the moment.

Now, the crux of the matter is I applied for permanent residence EEA4 application was refused because she apparently has not exercised her treaty rights for 5 continous years but prior to that after seeking legal advice, we were told that she is still regarded as a worker during periods of pregnancy/childbirth and she has been engaged in vocational training since 2008.

I dont mind going back to my country but my wife is shattered because we have a life, friends, network, future in the UK. I have tried getting my head around the technicalities of EU laws but it is so complicated, hence why I am seeking help here.

Honest answers please, what chances do I have based on the refusal and our circumstance?

[mcovet]

Hello Folks,

I am in a bit of a pickle, and I will appreciate your inputs. I am an Australian guy married to a German lady, we have been married for 8 years and we have three boys together. We lived in Melbourne for 2 and a half years and we decided to come to the UK in 2005.

We had high hopes for the family and we decided to start a family, my first son was born in 2006, she lost a baby in 2007, gave birth again in 2009 and surprisingly again in 2010..( I know we were quite busy). During the period 2005- 2009, she worked for just 8 months while I worked for 2 years.

She worked in 2005 but had to stop work because she got pregnant, after the delivery of our first son, she went back to another job, after a few weeks, she had a miscarraige and was in hospital for weeks which meant she had to quit her job. She got pregnant again in 2008 and gave birth late 2008.

All the time, she registered as unemployed with the jobcentre and started a Bachelors degree in 2009, we found out she was pregnant again and she gave birth to our third son early 2010. She has continued her studies regardless and she is in her third year at the moment.

Now, the crux of the matter is I applied for permanent residence EEA4 application was refused because she apparently has not exercised her treaty rights for 5 continous years but prior to that after seeking legal advice, we were told that she is still regarded as a worker during periods of pregnancy/childbirth and she has been engaged in vocational training since 2008.

I dont mind going back to my country but my wife is shattered because we have a life, friends, network, future in the UK. I have tried getting my head around the technicalities of EU laws but it is so complicated, hence why I am seeking help here.

Honest answers please, what chances do I have based on the refusal and our circumstance?

you do NOT have to go anywhere, stay here as long as your wish with your wife and kids while she is exercising treaty rights. Yes, you may not qualify for PR but you can always get another Residence Card if your current one is expiring soon. For periods of study (if she wasn't also working) you BOTH must have been covered by private insurance to have her/your residence count as continuous.

[Regulator56]

Hello Folks,

I am in a bit of a pickle, and I will appreciate your inputs. I am an Australian guy married to a German lady, we have been married for 8 years and we have three boys together. We lived in Melbourne for 2 and a half years and we decided to come to the UK in 2005.

We had high hopes for the family and we decided to start a family, my first son was born in 2006, she lost a baby in 2007, gave birth again in 2009 and surprisingly again in 2010..( I know we were quite busy). During the period 2005- 2009, she worked for just 8 months while I worked for 2 years.

She worked in 2005 but had to stop work because she got pregnant, after the delivery of our first son, she went back to another job, after a few weeks, she had a miscarraige and was in hospital for weeks which meant she had to quit her job. She got pregnant again in 2008 and gave birth late 2008.

All the time, she registered as unemployed with the jobcentre and started a Bachelors degree in 2009, we found out she was pregnant again and she gave birth to our third son early 2010. She has continued her studies regardless and she is in her third year at the moment.

Now, the crux of the matter is I applied for permanent residence EEA4 application was refused because she apparently has not exercised her treaty rights for 5 continous years but prior to that after seeking legal advice, we were told that she is still regarded as a worker during periods of pregnancy/childbirth and she has been engaged in vocational training since 2008.

I dont mind going back to my country but my wife is shattered because we have a life, friends, network, future in the UK. I have tried getting my head around the technicalities of EU laws but it is so complicated, hence why I am seeking help here.

Honest answers please, what chances do I have based on the refusal and our circumstance?

you do NOT have to go anywhere, stay here as long as your wish with your wife and kids while she is exercising treaty rights. Yes, you may not qualify for PR but you can always get another Residence Card if your current one is expiring soon. For periods of study (if she wasn't also working) you BOTH must have been covered by private insurance to have her/your residence count as continuous.

Thanks mate, I would always make decisions in the interest of my family. My question is, can the fact that she was preganant be taken as involuntary unemployed or incapacitated? I dont want to fight a lost cause....

[Obie]

I profoundly sympathise with your circumstances, but i am afraid the decision refusing your application contains no legal flaws in it.

You say you wife worked for 8 months from 2005-2009. It does not seem a very long employment history, and it is quite shocking that a legal expert could tell you she was a worker during her entire period in the UK.

You says she was registered as unemployed, under community law, there is no requirement for someone to register as unemployed, rather they have to be registered as a Job seeker, which does not seem the case here.

From the time your wife started child rearing, she did not intend on returning to work, neither was she on maternity live for the duration of the period in question.

Had she been working, went on maternity leave after parturition, returned back to work at the end of that period, and then commence another leave, then it would be right to say, she was a worker during that period. This was not the case, to my understanding.

To summarize, i will say, you wife was voluntary unemployed, during these period, and hence cannot be defined as worker for the purpose of community law.

Had she stopped work voluntarily and undertaken vocational course, related to the nature of her employment, then she still would have qualified. This does not seem to be the case. She ceased work to look after the kids, which is commendable, but unfortunately it does not confer on her the right of a worker.

Now she is studying, this has the potential of conferring on you the right of residence, subject to certain condition, which are, there has a be a comprehensive sickness insurance for the whole family, and you have to show evidence that you have sufficient resource, or sign a declaration of sufficient resource, to enable you not to be a burden on UK's social security resource.

If you can show this, then you may be able to obtain another 5 years residence card

[Punjab]

like obie said that you can have a 5 yrs visa eea2. now as the border agency told you that the clock was stopped, you can count from the years when your wife started exercising her right again... lets say she got work in 2009 and now you again applied for eea2 valid from 2011 till 2016 but you can apply for eea4 or PR in 2014 as your wife will be exercising her rights from 2009 onwards..till 2014 for 5 yr and you wouldnt have any problems to get pr

worse case cenario if anything happens that your wife has to stop work stay at home then have CSI which must cover everyone in your family means your kids wife and yoursself for the whole period till she is unemployed or maternity leave etc etc

or register her in job centre and in this case she dont need csi..

[Regulator56]

I profoundly sympathise with your circumstances, but i am afraid the decision refusing your application contains no legal flaws in it.

You say you wife worked for 8 months from 2005-2009. It does not seem a very long employment history, and it is quite shocking that a legal expert could tell you she was a worker during her entire period in the UK.

You says she was registered as unemployed, under community law, there is no requirement for someone to register as unemployed, rather they have to be registered as a Job seeker, which does not seem the case here.

From the time your wife started child rearing, she did not intend on returning to work, neither was she on maternity live for the duration of the period in question.

Had she been working, went on maternity leave after parturition, returned back to work at the end of that period, and then commence another leave, then it would be right to say, she was a worker during that period. This was not the case, to my understanding.

To summarize, i will say, you wife was voluntary unemployed, during these period, and hence cannot be defined as worker for the purpose of community law.

Had she stopped work voluntarily and undertaken vocational course, related to the nature of her employment, then she still would have qualified. This does not seem to be the case. She ceased work to look after the kids, which is commendable, but unfortunately it does not confer on her the right of a worker.

Now she is studying, this has the potential of conferring on you the right of residence, subject to certain condition, which are, there has a be a comprehensive sickness insurance for the whole family, and you have to show evidence that you have sufficient resource, or sign a declaration of sufficient resource, to enable you not to be a burden on UK's social security resource.

If you can show this, then you may be able to obtain another 5 years residence card

Thanks for been honest with me, however i meant to say she registered as a job-seeker at the job center. The lawyer we spoke to told us that technically we could say that she was a worker while been pregnant and unable to work as there were provisions for incapacitated people in the directive but as you said because she was not on maternity leave, it will not count.

I am looking for jobs in my country, if I find one, i think it will be better for the family that way.

Thanks for your post.

[Plum70]

I am looking for jobs in my country, if I find one, i think it will be better for the family that way.

You do not have to leave the country (unless you want to of course).

You say your wife is studying now; therefore, provided you have CSI covering the entire family and your wife continues to exercise treaty rights, you can apply for another 5-year residence card and be able to attain PR in 2014 (from your wife's 1st study year - 2009).

[Regulator56]

I am looking for jobs in my country, if I find one, i think it will be better for the family that way.

You do not have to leave the country (unless you want to of course).

You say your wife is studying now; therefore, provided you have CSI covering the entire family and your wife continues to exercise treaty rights, you can apply for another 5-year residence card and be able to attain PR in 2014 (from your wife's 1st study year - 2009).

Hey Plum thanks for that, Can you recommend cheap CSI that we could use?

[Punjab]

[

Hey Plum thanks for that, Can you recommend cheap CSI that we could use?

google is full of it and also compare the market or
travel supermarket but tesco is the best one

[Plum70]

What Punjab said. My OH and I haven't the need for CSI so I know nil about it! Just follow the above tips and you should find something appropriate.

I should mention though that CSI cannot be backdated, i.e to 2009, so when it comes to you applying for PR in a few years beware that the UKBA may argue that if there was no CSI from 2009 - 2011, those years may not count towards PR.

For now though, you're good to stay; just get your family medical cover and carry on!

Best wishes.

[Obie]

Please note that you also have to demonstrate to the decision maker that you will not be an unreasonable burden to state resources.

You can sign a declaration to that effect, or you can provide proof of adequate resources.

If your wife holds a German medical insurance/an EU medical insurance, that will suffice for the insurance purpose, as she is a student. However place note that as your wife is not a worker, any resource to state fund, even child benefit may jeopardize a successful application.

[Punjab]

What Punjab said. M

what did i say

[seputus]

What Punjab said. M

what did i say

It's an expression "What (name) said" .. means he agrees with what you said prior..

[Plum70]

What Punjab said. M

what did i say

It's an expression "What (name) said" .. means he agrees with what you said prior..

'She', if you please.

[EUsmileWEallsmile]

What are your objectives? If you do not qualify for permanent residence just now that does not stop you from doing so in the future, just make sure you have evidence. Are your children are German? That may make a difference.

[fouzi]

What are your objectives? If you do not qualify for permanent residence just now that does not stop you from doing so in the future, just make sure you have evidence. Are your children are German? That may make a difference.

hi mate i am in the same boat like you, basically i ve received the refusal lette this morning bit shocked but thats life in the UK ok now what you have to do is to play the right card which is your kids, if they are british or german passport holders, you base on that to appeal, mention the welfare of the kids, chapter 9 and chapter 2 on ukba website. been british citizens or eea citizen will make a difference to your right to remain in uk, but the immigration bastardos dont tell you that, (f**kers), that what i am gonna push on in my case anyway, the fact that we have children in this country does not count for these immigration people, they dont care, simple as that. ignorance and culture and principles and morals are non existant and the way they take out on immigrants is so low, they called the western civilised world. i hate the hypocrisy behind it, no offence to other peolpe who might read this, i am just pissed off with the immigration rules and who set them.

[nonspecifics]

Several people have suggested WPA's XS health plan, because it is usually one of the cheapest.

I think this is partly because of the high excess - meaning you pay the first £1500 of any claim made ( this figure is an example).

So, if the cost of treatment was £2000 the insurance would only pay out £500 towards the cost of treatment, you would need to pay the first £1500 yourself.

Remember the CSI has to cover ALL family members, not just the EEA / EU national.

With regards to the argument about temporary incapacity, this would probably have to be proved by GP's sick lines and medical records.

For any periods where you could argue she was a worker who was temporarily unfit to work, she probably should have had GP's certificates declaring her unfit to work which she would have sent in to the Department of Work and Pensions ( DWP).

Personally, if it were me, I would just forget about the past, as it might be a hard case to win, and make sure my family and I currently meet the Directive's requirements of exercising Treaty Rights so I can get on with my life without the hassle of arguing with the UKBA.