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In any society, you have a basic balance you have to maintain: Distribution of resources among the population with respect to its size. Right now, the UK sees itself in a position where it can not effectively distribute its resources among a growing population simply because that growing population is out-stripping this society's ability to create/utilize/efficiently distribute its resources.webdebate wrote:Do you think its wise for the UK to abandon any new immigrants into the country?
Think twice before you answer.
Thanks
WD
Not true. Romanians and Bulgarians still have non-visa restrictions until 2014. Eight other countries only had their restrictions removed this last May. And the UK is still not a Schengen country. While that may seem trivial, you still have to atleast prove you're EU. However, with the obvious exception of Poland, I really don't think the UK is seeing any mass exoduses from their EU neighbors. And even the Polish 'migrants' seem to in general be going back to Poland. It's a very different situation from that of migrants from non-European (i.e. Asian and African) countries. That difference is the motivation for the latest initiatives, not European migration.kid13 wrote:If high levels of both migration and unemployment are considered, I think that migrants from the EU also need to be brought into the equation. There are no restrictions on them coming and working in the UK, ...
What is more imp. is the type of immigrants and as the above report says, almost all the EU migrants are low-skilled, so they need to be stopped as well.ouflak1 wrote: Not true. Romanians and Bulgarians still have non-visa restrictions until 2014. Eight other countries only had their restrictions removed this last May. And the UK is still not a Schengen country. While that may seem trivial, you still have to atleast prove you're EU. However, with the obvious exception of Poland, I really don't think the UK is seeing any mass exoduses from their EU neighbors. And even the Polish 'migrants' seem to in general be going back to Poland. It's a very different situation from that of migrants from non-European (i.e. Asian and African) countries. That difference is the motivation for the latest initiatives, not European migration.
Could you provide a link substantiating the new policies or guidances relating skin color to visa requirements? Thanks!kid13 wrote:Slippery slope. Breeds the type of attitude I heard from an acquaintance - she was white from Africa and so didn't consider herself a migrant. To her, migrants were those without white skin. I hate the fact that the UK is promoting ths attitude.
The problem with linking the issue to just employment and class, or even race, is that it sort of glosses over the scope of the problem that the United Kingdom is facing.Aryan2013 wrote:...low-skill migrants, asylum, middle class workers...[/b]"
I agree with you, I still belive that in UK there is lack of skilled resources specifically in IT domain(may be in medical sector too). In some cases you will surprised that such skill set not even available in EU. Even if someone qualified for this UK position in EU, it might remote chance that person wants to relcoate to UK as he is already doing well where he belongs.Aryan2013 wrote:What is more imp. is the type of immigrants and as the above report says, almost all the EU migrants are low-skilled, so they need to be stopped as well.ouflak1 wrote: Not true. Romanians and Bulgarians still have non-visa restrictions until 2014. Eight other countries only had their restrictions removed this last May. And the UK is still not a Schengen country. While that may seem trivial, you still have to atleast prove you're EU. However, with the obvious exception of Poland, I really don't think the UK is seeing any mass exoduses from their EU neighbors. And even the Polish 'migrants' seem to in general be going back to Poland. It's a very different situation from that of migrants from non-European (i.e. Asian and African) countries. That difference is the motivation for the latest initiatives, not European migration.
It will be an interesting idea to explore the common wealth countries for more integration, atleast we have so much in common as compared to the continent.
I think you are ignoring some basic understanding of economics. remember demand/supply, greener pastures, better life, jobs, health, Maslow's, safetly.ouflak1 wrote: How is a country the size of England capable of supporting this many people and growing? The answer is complex, but it must be obvious to anyone here, including those posting on this thread, that England is struggling right now and has been for some time. This goes way beyond jobs and employment. This goes to infrastructure issues (NHS, education, traffic and roads, etc...), social issues, security issues, cultural issues, etc.... .
Yes, I am purposely trying to keep my explanations curt and simple. The situation is unquestionably more complex. I do not have skepticism about the current migration situation. I just can understand the UK government's perspective. Consider this: More people have been coming into this country over the past decade than ever before, yet every public service and entity has had to face cuts. Every single one; education spending, NHS, public transport, military, etc.... Now this could certainly be happening for a variety of reasons, but there is no question that the current system is failing to continue to provide the same kind of service to its population despite the fact that that population grows. For whatever reasons you wish to attribute i.e. inefficiency, economics, or whatever, this is happening and we all see it. From the government's perspective, cutting back on immigration is a way to alleviate some of the future pressures they are facing on their ability to continue to provide for their society.rbk1597 wrote:I think you are ignoring some basic understanding of economics. remember demand/supply, greener pastures, better life, jobs, health, Maslow's, safety. Your basis for skepticism is unfounded, because at the moment (at least when immigration was high) the UK provided all of the above, ....ouflak1 wrote: How is a country the size of England capable of supporting this many people and growing? The answer is complex, but it must be obvious to anyone here, including those posting on this thread, that England is struggling right now and has been for some time. This goes way beyond jobs and employment. This goes to infrastructure issues (NHS, education, traffic and roads, etc...), social issues, security issues, cultural issues, etc.... .
Until the United Kingdom loses is sovereignty to Pakistan or India or whatever country is plowing its citizenry into the island, they most certainly can and *will* control migration into their nation. They haven't lost any wars to those countries (or any others) the last I heard.rbk1597 wrote: Migration is a natural phenomenon and cannot be controlled by artificial means.
You took so much space up talking about space that I think one more person won't be able to migrate into the country!rbk1597 wrote: ... A bunch of stuff about 'space'... and some related matters....
You can't accuse me of ignoring any kind of understanding and then make a sweeping broad overly simplistic conclusion like that.rbk1597 wrote:So in summary, migration is all to do with economics....
Believe me, there is plenty of poverty in Manhattan and in other places in America. I've lived through it. It is however nowhere near as rampant as in most places in the world. That is true.rbk1597 wrote:Ever pondered (why) there are diseases, water issues, poverty, no services, low life expectancy, high mortality, etc in less populated remote, under-developed areas of the world, whilst you find none in places like Manhattan and London etc?
Well the current services certainly are adapting! They are decreasing as the population is increasing! That has got to be some kind of warning sign to you and everyone else that something is going very wrong. Whether that has to do with immigration, or even population growth in general, I grant you is debatable. But something is not right.rbk1597 wrote:Services change to adapt.
Yeah I'm sure the UK could probably handle *ten times* the population it currently has, and have no problems whatsoever, IF its government was a perfectly efficient organization in a perfect dream world.rbk1597 wrote:The UK can double its current population and actually have better services, better organization and efficiency, better education and ultimately better life. Infrastructure is not static.