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I am not quite sure this is correct. The burden is on the applicant to prove they qualify for PR, or any other category they applied under. Once they have provided evidence to discharge this burden, the burden then falls on the Secretary of State , if he or she believe the evidence they provided was fraudulently obtained, or there were misleading material facts. In those circumstances, the secretary of state will be expected to discharge the burden.EUsmileWEallsmile wrote:If this ended up in a court case, it would be up to UKBA to prove that a person was outside the country for longer than the required time. If you have not been, then they won't be able to prove it.
They are very quick to argue that it's not up to them to prove an applicant's case (for example where a spouse's tax records would help an appellant's case).
"It needs doing" as proof that one meets the residence qualifying criteria. I do not believe that the UKBA keeps tabs of a EU/EEA/EFTA national's exit and entry dates...is the onus therefore not on the applicant to confirm that they qualify? It just makes for a smooth-er process, won't you agree?EUsmileWEallsmile wrote:Mrs Plum, with all due respect; just because it says so on the form does not mean that the needful must actually be done. Happy Diwali.
I havent come across an applicant who has effectively left it to the UKBA to prove that their absences haven't exceeded 6 months, but I see your point (s). I wonder what format other member states use to confirm PR and whether it is a more simplified process). Anyone?EUsmileWEallsmile wrote:Hi Plum; I agree completely that if you want a smooth ride and no hassle, just give them what they ask for, but you don't have to.
You're right that the UK does not record every possible entry or exit. Even if they did, it would be possible to exit and enter without them knowing (and I'm not talking about any illegal entry).
There is a serious point at issue here, one might not remember. The average person may not remember precisely when they were in and out of the country, especially for short trips. It takes a lot to be absent for more than six months at a time.
I would say that a simple statement that one was not absent should be sufficient. If the state were able to demonstrate that this was not true, then they could impose proportionate sanctions perhaps.
When my wife was applying last month EEA3, we asked from the UKBA adviser whether this section is necessary to be filled as we dont remember some of the travelling dates. The adviser advice us that you can filled as much information as possible and cover any details on covering letter. This section will not affect your application as you would also provide other supporting documentation to support your 5 yrs continues period.This is something interesting to find out acutally.
They have stopped stamping on my passport since last year or maybe earlier than that. I was abel to go through the EU/UK passport gate even travelling on my own with my RC sticker. In the recent trip to Germany, even the German people weren't bother to put the stamp on. So I wasn't sure was it meant to be like this, or because I have been a EU family member for so long.
Anyway BIG thanks for everyone. Thanks so much for your input on my question. I think I will just dig out any possible trace for all the trips made in past five years and do as much as can.
I'll keep everyone posted with my application progress
I can confirm that one does not need to provide this.lmuee08 wrote:Hi guys,
I've been 'ghosting' on the forum for quite a while and learnt a lot of useful stuff. Drill through all the posts, didn't really find someone having this problem like I do.
I am in the middle of filling the forms, where requires to list time dates and length of period spend outside of UK.
Just want to find out does it have to include holidays/business travel? We travel amost once a month to Germany for weekend trip (where my eea partner is from) to visit his parents. That means we made at least 12*5=60 trips in past 5 years. Do I have to list all of them.
He also works as counsultant and occassionaly travel to work with clients for 1 or 2 weeks, such as in France, Holland, Germany, US, etc.
Add to all , we also travel long haul holidays a few times in past 5 years.
I can track some of them above by looking for business emails, holiday/flight bookings. But some of them, especially for those frequent weekend trips, I am kind of lose track. just like, get bored in the weekend, in-law's birthdays, relative's wedding, family parties, etc, etc.
Just wonder does anyone have the same issue? How important and accurate this information has to be?
Thanks everyone in advance!!!
Agree, one needs to understand that the forms are not mandatory and that whatever is requested over and above the minimum required to prove rights is not required.fysicus wrote:Can you imagine an applicant who lives in Northern Ireland, and crosses the Irish border (where there are no checks whatsoever) once a week or may be even more often??