Common Travel Area

Post by **Directive/2004/38/EC** » Mon Oct 24, 2011 1:25 pm

pads wrote:My daughter in law is an american citizen living in america with my british grand daughter who is 11 month old.

Seen as my grand daughter cannot travel on her own.
I have been trying to establish from the UKBA whether zambrano applies to entry clearance or not, currently I have had no success in this matter.

They have however confirmed that she is likely to qualify if she was in the United kingdom.

So I am very intrigued by this thread does anyone think it would be legal for her to entry the country through Ireland and then apply for zambrano whilst here.

What is your goal? You want the American daughter-in-law to live in the UK with her British daughter? What is the citizenship of the father?

pads · Post by **pads** » Mon Oct 24, 2011 4:44 pm

Hi thanks for your reply yes the goal is for My grand daughter, and daughter in law to live with my son who is the father and is british in Britain.

Love pads x

Rolfus · Post by **Rolfus** » Mon Oct 24, 2011 8:19 pm

At risk of stating the obvious, judging by a quick look at this site http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/count ... %20English it appears that your daughter-in-law can travel to the UK without a visa. She can then apply for a Zambrano residence from within the UK.

Post by **Directive/2004/38/EC** » Mon Oct 24, 2011 8:33 pm

Rolfus wrote:At risk of stating the obvious, judging by a quick look at this site http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/count ... %20English it appears that your daughter-in-law can travel to the UK without a visa. She can then apply for a Zambrano residence from within the UK.

Maybe kind of. On first blush a US passport allows the whole thing.

But she needs to be admitted to the UK. If she is questioned at the airport and says that she is entering for a Zambrano application, then I would guess they would turn her away. She is definitely intending to stay.

Oder?

Rolfus · Post by **Rolfus** » Mon Oct 24, 2011 9:00 pm

Probably best not to take a firm decision before checking out the climate, the warm beer, the hostility of the natives etc! After a few weeks a firm decision might be reached.
We also have no information about how UKBA would treat a port application. At the Eurostr terminal in Paris they could claim that the dependent minor was not "in his country of nationality". I don't think that would be possible at Heathrow.

Post by **Directive/2004/38/EC** » Mon Oct 24, 2011 9:33 pm

Rolfus wrote:Probably best not to take a firm decision before checking out the climate, the warm beer, the hostility of the natives etc! After a few weeks a firm decision might be reached.

Agreed. I would think that travel to the UK on my own (no child) would allow me to most easily "check out the natives".

(Warm beer does not need to be evaluated though. It just is...)

pads · Post by **pads** » Tue Oct 25, 2011 1:35 am

she tried to visit the uk last year with no visa and was turned away, might have been because she was heavily pregnant though but now we have a bounce have to be careful. Been adviced best to apply for entry clearance first.

Love pads x

Post by **Directive/2004/38/EC** » Tue Oct 25, 2011 11:15 am

pads wrote:she tried to visit the uk last year with no visa and was turned away, might have been because she was heavily pregnant though but now we have a bounce have to be careful. Been adviced best to apply for entry clearance first.

That changes a lot. What sort of entry clearance have you been advised to get?

My initial reaction is they have three options:
(1) get the UK entry clearance (I would guess a spouse visa)
(2) move together to another EU country, such as Ireland or Netherlands. This will be an easy move from an immigration perspective. Your son would typically need to work in the host member state.
(3) (maybe) enter Ireland and from there enter the UK through the CTA. This may or may not be legally possible if your daughter has been refused entry to the UK before.

pads · Post by **pads** » Wed Oct 26, 2011 9:39 am

Hi thanks for your reply.

We are unable to apply for the spouse visa at this time. My son cannot afford it at the moment, also he falls just short on maintenance grounds, without his tax credits which he cannot get until his daughter comes over to the UK.

So they are going to apply for a visit visa to visit for christmas and new year, also his daughters first birthday is in novmember so he put this as a reason.

Love pads x

pads · Post by **pads** » Wed Oct 26, 2011 9:55 am

Hi still trying to find out if Zambrano applies to entry clearance if it does we could apply for a family permit instead of visit visa.

Love pads x

Post by **Directive/2004/38/EC** » Wed Oct 26, 2011 10:02 am

pads wrote:Hi still trying to find out if Zambrano applies to entry clearance if it does we could apply for a family permit instead of visit visa.

http://freemovement.wordpress.com/2011/ ... -guidance/ UKBA does not seem to have a way of dealing with entry clearance at the moment, and it may not apply if your son is still available to be the father of the baby.

pads · Post by **pads** » Wed Oct 26, 2011 10:40 am

Ok so would you go for a visit visa, and then apply for zambrano once she is in the UK.

Assuming they grant the visit visa.

Love pads x

pads · Post by **pads** » Wed Oct 26, 2011 10:50 am

just read the updated guidance, so it would seem that we won't qualify anyway though I think this is uterly ridiculous and excludes 99.9 % of people applying. However removing her mother will in affect remove her from the UK as my son will not seperate her from her mother in any circumstances. But I guess until this ruling is challenged in court there is nothing we can do.

Love pads x

pads · Post by **pads** » Sat Dec 17, 2011 10:48 am

Hi is there any update on this we have now applied for and been refused a visit visa,

Just wondering if she could use the CTA route.

Love pads x

Post by **Directive/2004/38/EC** » Sat Dec 17, 2011 10:50 am

pads wrote:we have now applied for and been refused a visit visa,

Can you provide a little more details on what kind of visa you applied for, and why you were refused?

pads · Post by **pads** » Tue Jan 17, 2012 7:50 pm

Hi sorry for the lateness of the reply have only just seen your post.

She applied for a family visit visa to visit my son for Christmas, it was refused due to her complicated immigration history, and also due to my son's finances, he has a student overdraft which he has not paid off yet and so they said he couldn't support them both.

We have been unable to find a solicitor who accepts legal aid to take up the case, we are hoping to either apply for a spouse visa in March, or to apply for a family permit on the grounds of zambrano.

To further complicate things my son has been off ill from work and has now been threatened with dismissal, although this is not final as of yet,

what would happen to the spouse visa if he lost his job I am guessing he would not qualify for it then.

Please helpl.

Love pads x

Rolfus · Post by **Rolfus** » Wed Jan 18, 2012 10:25 am

If your son does lose his job, he will lose his reason for not living with his wife and son in the USA. (Does he have a US visa?). It is difficult to argue that splitting a family would hamper EEA free movement rights if the facts show they chose not to live together voluntarily.
One idea might be for your son to turn losing his job to his advantage by moving to another EEA state to look for work and for his wife & son to join him there immediately under EU rules. They could then return to the UK as a normal Surinder Singh couple.

pads · Post by **pads** » Wed Jan 18, 2012 12:05 pm

I don't know if he can get a visa for the US because his wife isn't working either,she is a stay at home mum.

How would he support himself while he looked for work in another EU country though, this is certainly an idea, as I think another EU country would let his wife and daughter live with him.

what do you think our chances would be under zambrano, but I Don't think at the moment it currently applies to entry clearance.

You see the net affect of denying my DIL a visa to visit the Uk, is that my Grand daughter a British citizen can not also come here, seen as she cannot travel on her own.

Love pads x

Post by **Obie** » Thu Jan 19, 2012 12:22 am

Perhaps it will be best to wait for regulations to be put in place for the implementation of Zambrano. The government has promised it will be in place in the early part of this year. Hopefully it will be sorted by the start of Spring.

You don't need a solicitor for spouse visa, but please note Accommodation and Maintenance Requirement has to be met.

pads · Post by **pads** » Thu Jan 19, 2012 11:36 am

'Thanks obie.

Do you know if the government is planning on applying this though to a child with two parents one who is british and one who is a non eu national.

At the moment they seem to be trying to apply it to single parents only ie only to those children who have no British parent in Britain .

Love pads x

pads · Post by **pads** » Sun Jan 22, 2012 10:27 am

Hi I have had a thought.

My DIL does not need a visa to visit ireland right.

Also she dosen't need a work permit to work in Ireland and neither does my son because he is an EU national and she is a dependant of an EU national is this correct.

Was thinking that if my son does loose his job they could go over there for six months then he can apply for a family permit under surrenda sing.

Is all this correct.

Also if his wife was to come to ireland to visit him would they both then be able to come over to britian to visit us as a family.

Love pads x

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