ILR for romanian and south african dependent

[houser]

Hello
I've been living in UK since 2002, I've received the self-employed 1 year visa in 2003, then the 3 year visa in 2004 as self employed. Then 2007 came and Romania joined the EU. I got married in 2006 November and my south african wife received a 5 years dependent visa in Feb 2007 and I received the 'yellow card' showing that I can be a self employed person in UK. Next year in Feb my wife's visa is expiring and we want to apply for ILR together with our 3 year old son which has a romanian passport. Please advise what form should we use to do that. Thanks

[Raluca007]

You could have applied for the blue card after one year of continuous legal work. But you can also apply for the citizenship after 5 years of staying here and your wife and son can apply as dependants. More information here
http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/eucit ... k-permits/

[houser]

Hi Raluca. Thank you for replying my post. The issue is that we've already applied for citizenship ( I have 9 years in this country) and they refused me ( loosing 800£!). Home office asked me to apply 1st for ILR. Also regarding the blue card - I do have more than 1 year of working in this country but in self employment ( I mean I am employed but by my own company) so I believe I don't qualify for blue card. I've searched the Home office web site -shouldn't I apply under the ECAA4 form?
Your thoughts?

[Raluca007]

Hi Houser. As I said before, you can apply for a blue card which gives you the right to work here with no restrictions under the basis that you have legally worked here for more than 12 months. After you get urs, you can apply for ILR and our wife can apply for it her blue card, as a dependant. I'm not 100% sure being that that ur situation is a bit more complicated. [Advertising removed by Moderator]

[houser]

Hi Houser. As I said before, you can apply for a blue card which gives you the right to work here with no restrictions under the basis that you have legally worked here for more than 12 months. After you get urs, you can apply for ILR and our wife can apply for it her blue card, as a dependant. I'm not 100% sure being that that ur situation is a bit more complicated.
.

Hi Raluca. I don't really need a blue card because I don't intend to work employed for someone else...I'm ok with my self-employed status. My wife has full working rights and visa until 2010. I've joined this board for help not for someone to try to sell me consultan.cy. Thanks anyway

[Directive/2004/38/EC]

I've been living in UK since 2002, I've received the self-employed 1 year visa in 2003, then the 3 year visa in 2004 as self employed. Then 2007 came and Romania joined the EU. I got married in 2006 November and my south african wife received a 5 years dependent visa in Feb 2007 and I received the 'yellow card' showing that I can be a self employed person in UK. Next year in Feb my wife's visa is expiring and we want to apply for ILR together with our 3 year old son which has a romanian passport. Please advise what form should we use to do that. Thanks

You are an EU citizen. In general the cheap and easy route for you is to apply for a Permanent Residence Card after 5 years in the UK. This is a free application, and depends pretty much solely on whether you have worked (or otherwise exercised treaty rights) for those 5 years.

In the case of Romania, it might be that you can only apply 5 years after Romania entered the EU.

It may also be possible for you to apply for ILR. This is an expensive application. You might have to pass the Life in the UK test.

What visa does your wife have? What exactly does it say on it?

Was your son born in the UK?

[houser]

You are an EU citizen. In general the cheap and easy route for you is to apply for a Permanent Residence Card after 5 years in the UK. This is a free application, and depends pretty much solely on whether you have worked (or otherwise exercised treaty rights) for those 5 years.

In the case of Romania, it might be that you can only apply 5 years after Romania entered the EU.

It may also be possible for you to apply for ILR. This is an expensive application. You might have to pass the Life in the UK test.

What visa does your wife have? What exactly does it say on it?

Was your son born in the UK?

Thank you for your reply. My wife has a dependent visa of a self employed person - me. We have applied in 2006 December for this and we were hoping to receive ILR ( I already had 1 year and 3 year visa on my passport - came over in 2002) . Because in 2007 Romania joined the EU - they sent me a yellow card and gave her a 5 year visa. My son is born here. I was looking on the application form for ILR - looks very complicated and they are requesting a lot of statements and receipts. Me and my wife passed the Life in Uk test. What is the difference in permanent residence card and the ILR?

[John]

Romania joined the EU on 01.01.07, so 5 years later than that date is of course 01.01.12, less than 2 months time.

In order to cut out the cost of applying for ILR, why not instead apply for PR. Once granted there is effectively no difference between ILR and PR, but applying for for PR costs .... nothing!

Put in the EEA3 and EEA4 applications soon. It will be 2012 before they are granted.

[Directive/2004/38/EC]

For PR, you do NOT need to do Life in the UK test.

[John]

Correct, but no harm has been done in getting the pass certificates. They can be used when applications are made for Naturalisation.

[Directive/2004/38/EC]

Correct, but no harm has been done in getting the pass certificates. They can be used when applications are made for Naturalisation.

Do the results expire? (I would hope not, but who knows...)

[John]

No the pass certificates do not expire .... but they should keep the pass certificates in a safe place.

[houser]

Thank you both for your reply. Just to get this straight - EEA3 for me and my son ( he has Romanian passport) and EEA4 for my wife - South african passport. Will the PR card give us the full working rights in UK? Also how long do we need to wait to apply for naturalisation and British passport? Should we apply now ( 2 months before) or do we need to wait until 1.01.12? Can we send both applications in 1 envelope? - it is the same Liverpool address

[Directive/2004/38/EC]

houser,

Is your wife working right now or does she want to work?

[houser]

She is employed. Does it matter?

[boloney]

Thank you both for your reply. Just to get this straight - EEA3 for me and my son ( he has Romanian passport) and EEA4 for my wife - South african passport. Will the PR card give us the full working rights in UK? Also how long do we need to wait to apply for naturalisation and British passport? Should we apply now ( 2 months before) or do we need to wait until 1.01.12? Can we send both applications in 1 envelope? - it is the same Liverpool address

Eea3 for you and eea4 for your wife.
How old is your son? He need to be at least 5 years old whe you submit his eea3.
PR will give you all right as British Citizen, except right to vote in general election.
You will Have to wait 12 months.
Wait until 2012.

[John]

PR will give you all right as British Citizen, except right to vote in general election.

PR will make absolutely no difference to voting rights.

An EU Citizen will have already got the right to vote in all elections apart from UK Parliamentary elections, unless they are from a Commonwealth country or Ireland, in which case no voting restriction.

A non-EU person, with or without PR, no right to vote, unless they are a Commonwealth Citizen.

How old is your son? He need to be at least 5 years old whe you submit his eea3.

It is not worth bothering with EEA3 for the son.

[Directive/2004/38/EC]

She is employed. Does it matter?

If she wants to be working and is already, then she is set.

[houser]

PR will give you all right as British Citizen, except right to vote in general election.

PR will make absolutely no difference to voting rights.

An EU Citizen will have already got the right to vote in all elections apart from UK Parliamentary elections, unless they are from a Commonwealth country or Ireland, in which case no voting restriction.

A non-EU person, with or without PR, no right to vote, unless they are a Commonwealth Citizen.

How old is your son? He need to be at least 5 years old whe you submit his eea3.

It is not worth bothering with EEA3 for the son.

Dear All
Just had a discussion with a solicitor/ accountant that deals with applications for ILR and PR for EU citizens, he advised me that its better to apply for ILR for a romanian instead of PR card. He said that HO are asking for a lot of paperwork for PR and there is a long waiting list. From the EEA3 and EEA4 applications looks like we dont need too many papers...is he advising this just to make money?
Also my wife's visa is expiring in Feb next year - should we apply after Christmas or before? Is there a limit on the PR card?
Thanks in advance

[Directive/2004/38/EC]

Just had a discussion with a solicitor/ accountant that deals with applications for ILR and PR for EU citizens, he advised me that its better to apply for ILR for a romanian instead of PR card. He said that HO are asking for a lot of paperwork for PR and there is a long waiting list. From the EEA3 and EEA4 applications looks like we dont need too many papers...is he advising this just to make money?

Also my wife's visa is expiring in Feb next year - should we apply after Christmas or before? Is there a limit on the PR card?

Hard to tell why your solicitor is advising ILR. Why did he say it was "better"?

[Obie]

The advice given by your solicitor does not make any sense. It beggars belief that a solicitor can give such an advice.

Firstly your wife cannot apply for ILR, the reason why i said so is because , she was not previouisly issued with a leave to remain but rather a residence card. Except she has had leave before under national rules, and has now accrued 10 years of lawful residence in total, she will not succeed in such an application.

As an EU national, which is your status, you don't require ILR neither can you be issued with an ILR, as EU citizens don't require it, and cannot be issued with same.

I cannot understand why he/she thinks an ILR application is quicker, even if you qualified, as ILR postal application can take as long as a PR application, which has an average processing time of 3-4 months, except a premium application.

I am of the view that the best and only (not completely sure) option available to your wife is a PRC application, and in your case only a PR application.

[houser]

Also my wife's visa is expiring in Feb next year - should we apply after Christmas or before? Is there a limit on the PR card?

I've just checked the EEA guide http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/sitec ... de-eea.pdf
'Please note that this material is not applicable for Bulgarian and Romanian nationals, who
should go to http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/eucit ... nationals/ for
further information.'
Checking the link, there is no reference that romanians and bulgarians can apply for permanent residence after 5 years ( which is after 1/01/2012)!

Are you 100% that EEA3 and EEA4 can be used by romanians and bulgarians to apply for the permanent residence??

[houser]

The advice given by your solicitor does not make any sense. It beggars belief that a solicitor can give such an advice.

Firstly your wife cannot apply for ILR, the reason why i said so is because , she was not previouisly issued with a leave to remain but rather a residence card. Except she has had leave before under national rules, and has now accrued 10 years of lawful residence in total, she will not succeed in such an application.

As an EU national, which is your status, you don't require ILR neither can you be issued with an ILR, as EU citizens don't require it, and cannot be issued with same.

I cannot understand why he/she thinks an ILR application is quicker, even if you qualified, as ILR postal application can take as long as a PR application, which has an average processing time of 3-4 months, except a premium application.

I am of the view that the best and only (not completely sure) option available to your wife is a PRC application, and in your case only a PR application.

Thanks for your reply Obie!
Just to get this right - EEA3 will be my application and EEA4 will be her's. She was in maternity leave and looking after our son for almost 1 year. Will this be a problem in the application? She doesn't have the comprehensive insurance for that period. Also a previous question: when should apply? Her 5 year dependent visa is expiring in Feb 2012. In regards to ILR - probably is the application for self-employed romanian and she will be my dependent...

[Directive/2004/38/EC]

Was she employed but formally on maternity leave for the year?

[Kitty]

Directive, I think that houser is the Romanian national, and his wife is non-EEA. So for PR purposes, it doesn't matter what she's been doing.

See also: Bulgarian and Romanian nationals: questions and answers (pdf) available here:

http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/eucit ... iveworkuk/

It helpfully says:

Permanent residence under EU law is a right provided by Directive 2004/38/ec to all EEA Nationals and their family members. To be a permanent resident under EU law you must have resided in a member state, as an EEA national, exercising a treaty right, for five years. As Bulgaria and Romania joined the EU on 1 January 2007 Bulgarian and Romanian Nationals will start to become permanent residents of the UK under EU law from 1 January 2012.

Although the guidance for long residence does state that discretion should be exercised in favour of applicants who fulfil all the other requirements of the Rules, where their 10-year residence includes periods under the EEA regulations, I cannot see why you would want to make an ILR application in those circumstances when you will acquire PR in any event.