5 years for ILR rule implemented

ssi · Post by **ssi** » Sat Sep 16, 2006 11:06 am

a11 wrote:VBSI is waiting for the Minister's response expected in mid-September, when both himself and the Parliament come back from holidays. If he doesn't respond as he promised, we will seek ways to get through to him and remind about the problem (this will be done via MPs).
At the same time, VBSI have written to Stephen Kong, but got no reply as yet. We will keep you updated.

Mid-September is not over. Negative or not, LB's reply should be forthcoming in the near future. This reply to the VBSI and to SK could be synchronised, because although the two approaches have been independent so far, they are obviously about the same thing. Many of us are getting past the 4-year mark, but it's not the reason to drop out. As my friend put it: "worry about what other bad things they might do."

rooi_ding · Post by **rooi_ding** » Sat Sep 16, 2006 11:42 am

Even if we do loose this battle the war is still not lost, we still have the ability to change things in the future. One thing that we have learnt is that although we all come from different places and cultures we are able to work together we can show tolerance towards each others cultures. We can set ourselves way above this UK government because it has shown no tolerance towards us and the rest of the world. They have there own agenda and will attempt to bulldoze there way through any situation. We can set things straight by becoming more politically aware so when we do have the ILR in our passports we can then flex our political muscle. If 10% of this country is non UK born citizens then we should have 10% representation in the House of Commons, then no government would ever attempt to do what they have done.

This government and this country have to come to the realization that we have come here because the offered a better future for us and our families we did not come here for a free ride. If another country had offered something better we would have gone there and offered our skills there.

At all times remember fellow immigrants that we have proved ourselves already we each contribute 0.6% more then UK born citizen to the GDP. This country needs us more then we need them as we have more choices then they do, and in order for them to realize this we should all vote in the next general election (that is if we have ILR) we should vote to show this government how we feel about how they have cheated us out of a year of our lives.............

RobinLondon · Post by **RobinLondon** » Sat Sep 16, 2006 12:15 pm

Rooi-ding, possessing ILR doesn't mean you can vote. You must be a UK citizen to vote. Additionally however, all Commonwealth citizens can vote in all elections--local, Parliamentary and EU. EU citizens can vote in local and EU elections.

So Rooi-ding, as a Saffa, you should have been voting already. Don't wait for citizenship!

Christophe · Post by **Christophe** » Sat Sep 16, 2006 12:36 pm

RobinLondon wrote:... all Commonwealth citizens can vote in all elections--local, Parliamentary and EU.

And it's worth making this very point (subtly no doubt) if you're a Commonwealth citizen and you're ever talking to or corresponding with your local MP or any other politician on this issue.

To repeat: Commonwealth citizens who are living in the UK are entitled to vote at Westminster elections (and all other UK elections) - they don't need to have ILR to do so, they just have to be living in the UK, in whatever immigration status. Such people are, incidentally, required to be on the electoral roll.

ssi · Post by **ssi** » Sun Sep 17, 2006 7:18 pm

tarzan wrote:good idea, if you can put the poll asking how the perception of people changed after before the changes to 4-5, i will get people to vote.

I set up the poll at http://www.vbsi.org.uk/ . We may want to move it to the navigation margin later, but I put it in the most prominent place for now. I kept the number of questions to a minimum.
Please let me know what you All think and perhaps vote and leave your comments under the poll result table.

WP_Holder_05_2002 · Post by **WP_Holder_05_2002** » Sun Sep 17, 2006 11:34 pm

Immigration Minister doesn't seem to be bothered by the skilled immigrants problems. We have waited alot so far but things are not promising so far. Now we need to collect our courage and keep working for our rights and justice. Please send link (http://www.vbsi.org.uk) to all friends via email and will request to vote on the poll and request to forward this email to all of their friends and request to vote on this poll.

I am going to contact all my friends via email/ phone and ask them that this is the opportunity to express their feelings.

RobinLondon · Post by **RobinLondon** » Mon Sep 18, 2006 9:43 am

For those who have applied for the extension to leave since the 4->5 change was brought in, how much leave were you given?

Were you just given the one year, or did they give you up to three?

rg1 · Post by **rg1** » Mon Sep 18, 2006 11:22 am

I don't think lobbying alone will do any good. Now we should take legal steps!

dnicky · Post by **dnicky** » Mon Sep 18, 2006 11:50 am

rg1, you are right. It's been a while since we're following the lobbying route and we have not progressed as much as we would have wanted to. I suggest we set up some sort of working committee e.g. interested people staying in and around London can meet up regularly in person once a fortnight (may be once a week, we can decide upon the frequency of the meetings) and then decide upon the course of action (who does what) in immediate future.
This could help us in coordinating our efforts in a more systematic manner.
Would appreciate further suggestions/feedback.

ssi · Post by **ssi** » Mon Sep 18, 2006 12:05 pm

dnicky, please email BadPaul http://vbsi.org.uk/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?p=170#170 , he has already done a lot of background work and would be glad to meet with you and all who joins you.

RobinLondon · Post by **RobinLondon** » Mon Sep 18, 2006 3:01 pm

I just spoke with a solicitor from Ghersons (www.gherson.com) and was informed that my 2005 correspondence with Charles Clarke about the non-retrospective nature of the 4->5 changes will have no basis in court. His statements to me, I was informed, were simply an indication of the policy in force at the time and not intended to construe any promise or guarantee.

ssi · Post by **ssi** » Mon Sep 18, 2006 3:45 pm

RobinLondon, a few weeks ago, a11 wrote here: "the law itself is not retrospective. Its effects are, but the law itself isn't." http://www.immigrationboards.com/viewto ... 0208#50208
The law firms, so far, can be divided into three categories: 1) SK is in a class of his own, his firm was the only one brave enough to lodge a general JR application; 2) CL and potentially others, who are prepared to create a precedent with very strong hardship cases, as soon as it becomes clear that lobbying efforts failed (not clear yet); 3) all other firms, who play it safe and do not want to get involved into cases with no 100% chance of winning.
VBSI is trying to get hold of SK to find out the details of his JR application and to discuss other matters, such as his barrister choice, etc. I do not know if you asked for Ghersons' evaluation of SK's JR application, it would be interesting to know how lawyers from category 3 look upon the ones from category 1 (and 2 too).

RobinLondon · Post by **RobinLondon** » Mon Sep 18, 2006 4:17 pm

I'm not sure how they would look upon the solicitors themselves, but this Gherson solicitor seemed quite adamant that a judicial review, or any case in general attempting to reverse current HO policy on this subject wasn't worth the attempt. When I pursued the issue, it was pretty clear from the solicitor that it was a non-starter. Well, you know what they say...opinions are like a*******s. Nonetheless, it's something to consider.

miffedyankee · Post by **miffedyankee** » Mon Sep 18, 2006 4:30 pm

I have copied and pasted a Q&A from the www.theyworkforyou.com which refers to the written answer given by Mr. Byrne to Mr. Cousins, Labour MP on 4 September 2006.

Any of you still waiting for Mr. Byrne to change the retrospective rules should read this and see the writing on the wall!

"Jim Cousins (Newcastle upon Tyne Central, Labour) Hansard source

To ask the Secretary of State for the Home Department whether existing holders of work permits who have a right to apply for residency after four years will be required to meet the new requirements of five years on work permits.

Liam Byrne (Minister of State (Immigration, Citizenship and Nationality), Home Office) Hansard source

Existing holders of work permits will be subject to the new requirements for settlement introduced on 3 April. Work permits do not create an entitlement to have future applications dealt with under the immigration rules in force when they were granted."

miffedyankee · Post by **miffedyankee** » Mon Sep 18, 2006 4:36 pm

Here's the likn to the above:

http://www.theyworkforyou.com/wrans/?id ... #g86568.q0

ssi · Post by **ssi** » Mon Sep 18, 2006 4:39 pm

In order to collect as much information as possible about a potential legal case, it could be useful if as many affected people as possible sought legal advice and shared it with others either here or discretely by email to BadPaul. This does not have to be expensive. There is a citizens advice bureau in nearly every town and volunteer solicitors there can be very good (this is a matter of luck, of course). They can be even better than entry point staff of big immigration law firms. See http://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/ . If you drop a VBSI leaflet in the bureau, it could also help raise awareness about the issue.

a11 · Post by **a11** » Mon Sep 18, 2006 4:43 pm

Thanks for posting this, miffedyankee. This is definitely discouraging, but we shall wait for the minister's direct response to us. We have had some indication today that it may follow soon.
However, you are right and the response is very likely to be negative.
We should therefore carefully think about further course of action.

miffedyankee · Post by **miffedyankee** » Mon Sep 18, 2006 4:48 pm

Thanks a11.

Any news from Mr. Kong? I think any legal action will depend on what has happened to the judicial review?

a11 · Post by **a11** » Mon Sep 18, 2006 5:47 pm

Looks like he's disappared, but we'll keep on trying to keep track of him.

timefactor · Post by **timefactor** » Tue Sep 19, 2006 9:20 am

These are his contact details for those are very keen

email: stephen.kong@harveysf.co.uk
email: mail.london@harveysf.co.uk
Mobile: 07900 414 378

WP_Holder_05_2002 · Post by **WP_Holder_05_2002** » Tue Sep 19, 2006 8:14 pm

I got a feeling that we will get some decision in our favour in next 30 days....

rooi_ding · Post by **rooi_ding** » Tue Sep 19, 2006 8:51 pm

I like your optimism WP

jayj · Post by **jayj** » Wed Sep 20, 2006 8:54 am

Guys,

I've been following this issue from teh start , I even posted it on the gumtree site when I first came across this on the HO site by chance, was really dissapointing but what is more dissapointing is when we put our trust , our hope in the hands of these popel that claim to fight for our rights SK CL...all they were doing and still doing is not trying to take HO to court cos they know that once they do that , they will shunned by British public etc...so they they try to get aorund this by using crap tactics...which are not going to work...all the protests will not work...a JR is what is needed ...and ofcourse this Gherson solicitor is going tobe adamant about JR...cos he knows too well that he will be in the spotlight if he does go for JR.
We keep waiting...anticipation...but we've got ourselves including myslef to blame....we've left it for too long...we shoudl have acted within 3 months when the law was introduced...but we were side tracked by putting our trust and faith in these guys SK, CL, VBSi...and whoever else there is.... these guys tried in ways taht we all could see from the very beginning is not going to work...I'm blaming ourselves not these guys...cos we allowed these people to waste time at our expense...who suffers? We do....
Guys...being optimistic nowadays with rules govt getting into place and we protesting to change it...is hard...hope is gone down the drain...
This site is good for advice but with regards to the 4-5 year rule change...it's not gonna happen...the truth is we've got to wait the 5 years...SK supposed to get back to us a long time ago....no news...time wasted...we could be sorting out JR...but we had to wait for these people...
We are foreigners here an that's not going to go away...no matter how much we contribute blah blah blah.....we stick to the rules else we leave....simple as that...the govt is not going to budge....unless there is a JR ., all you that think otherwise dream on...you in for dissapointment...
Unfortunately...it's got to something like this....but throwing away 4 , 5, 6 years years of your life in britain and then to pack up and leave , aint simple....we all know it...but we allowed this to happen to us in terms of not fighting for a JR....instead we let SK CL etc...take us down the lobbying time wasting part....
Good luck and best wishes to the furture....if the govt changes the rules to 4 years for exisiting WP,HSMP,etc...we woudl b lucky......
Sorry guys....we've got to be realistic...no use having a Voice for immigrants when it can't be heard....and I don't mean protests...be professional....court action....but hey we learn don't we...

Cheers

badhorse · Post by **badhorse** » Wed Sep 20, 2006 12:11 pm

So instead of blaming ourselves, what can we do now?

(1) find a good lawyer who can represent us
(2) have someone to have a meeting with the lawyer
(3) decide the name of the client (need at lease a real person as the client)
(4) put money into a pot and pay the lawyer.

Who can do this. I cannot. I think none of you can neither. So why blame anyone?

nonothing · Post by **nonothing** » Wed Sep 20, 2006 12:14 pm

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertainment/5357470.stm

rubbish imagines world gone wrong

Clive Owen stars in Children of Men, a chilling tale of an apocalyptic world in which women can no longer have babies.

The year is 2027 and a litter-strewn London is under siege from terrorists, illegal immigrants and rising civil unrest.

...

Owen, ... , says the film works by turning today's issues of mass immigration, terrorism, the environment and infertility into reality.

"These are things that we are scared and concerned and worried about now, actually happening. It is like things are now, but worse," he explains.

...

Immigrationboards.com: Immigration, work visa and work permit discussion board

5 years for ILR rule implemented

Commonwealth citizens living in the UK may vote in the UK

Re: poll on labor policy

Liam Byrne's reply to Jim Cousins re: ILR

So what