UK Ancestry Visa to ILR - Dependants

[Ancestor]

Please could learned and experienced members of the forum assist me with some answers to some questions regarding my current UK Ancestry Visa application, I am submitting.
My and family’s situation is following at present :-
My wife and I both qualify for UK Ancestry Visa’s each in our own right, but as she is a housewife and won’t be working, which apparently she would need to do if she applied separately, so we will apply for her as a dependant of my Visa Application. I am aiming on going over from SA to UK in April 2012, probably on my own initially to get a job and setup.
My daughter is just over 18 thus doesn’t qualify as a dependant, will be starting University here next year studying Optometry and my wife and I won’t leave her here on her own in an unsafe environment with no family etc. Once I am setup my wife and daughter will come over (daughter on a Visitor Visa) for us to apply and get her into University in UK in order for us to apply for a Student Visa for her, with the aim of once she qualifies, going from Student to Work Visa with eventual aim of getting her UK citizenship.

I understand the requirement to qualify for ILR is to prove 5 continuous years of employment in the UK and that you may not spend more than 90 days out of the UK in one go and not more than 180 days in total out of the 5 years in order for it to qualify as 5 continuous years. I have been reliably informed by the agent I am dealing with that this same rule would apply for my wife as a dependant, even though she would not be employed for the 5 years. Is this the case ? Or would she qualify for ILR at the same time as myself, even if she was out the country for more than the 90/180 day rule, based on my qualification of the 5 year continuous employment ?

I understand one may apply for an extension of ones UK Ancestry Visa while over in UK if one has not qualified for the 5 year continuous employment rule for ILR, in order to qualify ?
If I qualify for ILR but my wife as a dependant has been out of the country for more than the 90/180 day rule, would she have to apply for an extension even as a dependant separately to me and us ending up attaining naturalization at different times ? Would I need to apply for the extension as the principal applicant for my wife as a dependant even though I would have qualified for ILR ?

The 5 year continuous employment rule for ILR, my understanding is that it has to be continuous in that if you were say unemployed in year 4 for say 7 months and then became employed again, your 5 year continuous period would have to start from scratch again, is this so ?

One last question – here in SA when I phone the VFS call centre administering the UK Visa apps, they tell me quite clearly that the UK High Commission will accept copies of birth and marriage certificates as long as they have been certified true copies by a Notary Public/Lawyer, Police Station or Clerk of the Courts, but my agent categorically tells me this is not the case and such documents are not acceptable to the UK High Commission ?

Please if anyone has had any experience with any of the above or knows the answers I would be most appreciative of the responses.

[geriatrix]

Once I am setup my wife and daughter will come over (daughter on a Visitor Visa) for us to apply and get her into University in UK in order for us to apply for a Student Visa for her, with the aim of once she qualifies, going from Student to Work Visa with eventual aim of getting her UK citizenship

If your daughter enters UK as a visitor, she will not be able to make an in-country application to change her immigration status to Tier 4 (General). She will need to return to SA to apply for entry clearance as a Tier 4 (General) migrant.

I understand the requirement to qualify for ILR is to prove 5 continuous years of employment in the UK and that you may not spend more than 90 days out of the UK in one go and not more than 180 days in total out of the 5 years in order for it to qualify as 5 continuous years. I have been reliably informed by the agent I am dealing with that this same rule would apply for my wife as a dependant, even though she would not be employed for the 5 years. Is this the case ?

No. This restriction regarding absences from UK does not apply to dependant(s).

The 5 year continuous employment rule for ILR, my understanding is that it has to be continuous in that if you were say unemployed in year 4 for say 7 months and then became employed again, your 5 year continuous period would have to start from scratch again, is this so ?

No.

here in SA when I phone the VFS call centre administering the UK Visa apps, they tell me quite clearly that the UK High Commission will accept copies of birth and marriage certificates as long as they have been certified true copies by a Notary Public/Lawyer, Police Station or Clerk of the Courts, but my agent categorically tells me this is not the case and such documents are not acceptable to the UK High Commission ?

Supporting documents must be originals, unless the local BHC dictates otherwise.


That said, do note that you are asking queries about settlement / naturalisation that you may only be eligible for 5-6 years in the future. No one can tell you today what the rules will be then!

[Ancestor]

Thanks sushdmehta for your responses.

Once I am setup my wife and daughter will come over (daughter on a Visitor Visa) for us to apply and get her into University in UK in order for us to apply for a Student Visa for her, with the aim of once she qualifies, going from Student to Work Visa with eventual aim of getting her UK citizenship

If your daughter enters UK as a visitor, she will not be able to make an in-country application to change her immigration status to Tier 4 (General). She will need to return to SA to apply for entry clearance as a Tier 4 (General) migrant.

She would only come over with my wife during her University Vac here on a visitor visa purely to go to the UK University to find out dope, get her accepted and what credits they would carry her from SA. She would then return to SA to finish up her year she would be studying here whilst applying for her Student Visa once granted and return back with my wife to finish studies in UK. If my wife and I are over there on Ancestry Visa would they allow my daughter into UK on Tier 4 (General) Migrant to stay with us and study and for how long would they grant her entry clearance or should she be coming over on Student Visa ? Sorry I think this may be the same thing !

I understand the requirement to qualify for ILR is to prove 5 continuous years of employment in the UK and that you may not spend more than 90 days out of the UK in one go and not more than 180 days in total out of the 5 years in order for it to qualify as 5 continuous years. I have been reliably informed by the agent I am dealing with that this same rule would apply for my wife as a dependant, even though she would not be employed for the 5 years. Is this the case ?

No. This restriction regarding absences from UK does not apply to dependant(s).

Thanks you are a star - I am not labouring the issue and am not doubting you as I see you have been more than helpful to a lot of members on the boards, but are you quite sure about this, as my agent is quite definite about this and not sure if only to extort more money from me. If you are correct, which I believe and hope you are, this would solve my family predicament as my wife could remain over here in SA with my daughter to year end out and join me later and on your info this would not impact my wifes ILR application in 5 years time. Are you thus saying her ILR status as a dependant would be based solely on mine as the principal Ancestry Visa holder ?

The 5 year continuous employment rule for ILR, my understanding is that it has to be continuous in that if you were say unemployed in year 4 for say 7 months and then became employed again, your 5 year continuous period would have to start from scratch again, is this so ?

No.

Thanks again I picked this up from this agents link http://www.valuevisas.com/zencart/index ... cts_id=184 where they said "In this instance, when they get their 5yr extension, they will have to work the full 5yrs of the extension in order to be able to demonstrate that they have been working for a continuous period of 5yrs, and so be eligible to be considered for Permanent Residency", which doesnt sound correct or fair.

That said, do note that you are asking queries about settlement / naturalisation that you may only be eligible for 5-6 years in the future. No one can tell you today what the rules will be then!

Thanks for your help and replies and do appreciate your time - I am aware that there are many years still to go and that the rules may change, but am just trying to plot and plan path forward for the family to all end up there together as life in SA is not to safe as we have had a few nasty experiences.

[geriatrix]

If my wife and I are over there on Ancestry Visa would they allow my daughter into UK on Tier 4 (General) Migrant to stay with us and study

Yes, if she fulfils the requirements for leave to enter as a Tier 4 migrant.

for how long would they grant her entry clearance or should she be coming over on Student Visa ?

The Tier 4 policy guidance should help answer that question.

I am not labouring the issue and am not doubting you as I see you have been more than helpful to a lot of members on the boards, but are you quite sure about this, as my agent is quite definite about this and not sure if only to extort more money from me. If you are correct, which I believe and hope you are, this would solve my family predicament as my wife could remain over here in SA with my daughter to year end out and join me later and on your info this would not impact my wifes ILR application in 5 years time. Are you thus saying her ILR status as a dependant would be based solely on mine as the principal Ancestry Visa holder ?

I cannot provide evidence of non-requirements but can direct you to where the requirements are noted and explained. The requirements, as they are today, and associated policy procedures are available in this UKBA document - where you will note that there is no mention of such restrictions (absences) for dependants.

Thanks again I picked this up from this agents link http://www.valuevisas.com/zencart/index ... cts_id=184 where they said "In this instance, when they get their 5yr extension, they will have to work the full 5yrs of the extension in order to be able to demonstrate that they have been working for a continuous period of 5yrs, and so be eligible to be considered for Permanent Residency", which doesnt sound correct or fair.

No comments on what an external website states or why! Reading the information in the document linked above should also provide clarity on the issue.
See also 192(i) which refers to 186 (i)-(v). And 186(iv) states:

is able to work and intends to take or seek employment in the United Kingdom;

I don't see any requirement - anywhere - to suggest that an applicant must have been in employment for each and every day in the 5 years preceding a settlement application. In fact, the document suggests that it is possible for a person to make an application for settlement even if he/she is unemployed at the time of such application.

[Ancestor]

Thanks sushdmehta for clarifying for me.

One last question - once the Ancestry Visa has been granted, how long before I have to enter the UK given that I understand the 5 yr qualification period to apply for ILR ? in that if I havent completed the 5 yrs I would have to first apply for an extension of my Ancestry Visa ?

[geriatrix]

If you (principal migrant) do not enter UK within 28 days of the visa being issued then you'll need to apply for an extension of leave before you can become eligible for settlement. Applying for extension is possible.

[Ancestor]

Thank you very much

I suppose it doesn't really matter then at this stage whether I apply for my wife's spouse dependant ancestry visa at the same time as mine as principal applicant or not (would this matter ?) as even if we applied for this for her a year down the line after mine, she would be subject to the same validity and expiry date of my visa then ? If we did this when we applied for her as spouse dependant would she have to submit all the same documentation all over again that I have submitted with my principal application ?

[geriatrix]

I suppose it doesn't really matter then at this stage whether I apply for my wife's spouse dependant ancestry visa at the same time as mine as principal applicant or not (would this matter ?)

Under current rules, no.

as even if we applied for this for her a year down the line after mine, she would be subject to the same validity and expiry date of my visa then ?

Yes.

If we did this when we applied for her as spouse dependant would she have to submit all the same documentation all over again that I have submitted with my principal application ?

Reading this topic should help.

[Ancestor]

Thanks sushdmehta for your invaluable responses. I have always believed "Knowledge is power" and I consider myself suitably informed from yourself, before launching down this path shortly.

I suppose it doesn't really matter then at this stage whether I apply for my wife's spouse dependant ancestry visa at the same time as mine as principal applicant or not (would this matter ?)

Under current rules, no.

Sorry one final question then please, I guess then that I would rather do my wifes spouse dependant ancestry visa at the same time as mine as all documents etc will be together and in order.

Would or does she then have to enter the UK initially with me when I go over in order for her to "activate" her visa as I have been told, or not neccessary ? as she would need to be back here in SA tying things up as explained previously.

Thanking you in advance for your response and all your effort.

[geriatrix]

The concept "activate a visa" does not apply to those who do not qualify for settlement in their own right and/or are not subject to any qualifying residential period for settlement.