eea2 residence card refused with right to appeal

[davex1890]

Good day Everyone,


My brother and i just went for our appeal hearing and these are the points raised by the HO rep.


(We were cross examined separately )


1.HO asked when our mother left for europe and when she left europe for UK,and if she came directly to UK or not

answer i gave was she left for europe in 1996 and she entered UK in 2009 but she paid us a visit in another country(not member state) before she came to UK but dont know the exact date.(also stated that she visits us like twice every year when she was in europe).


my brother's answer was the same but he said she went directly from europe to UK then he later said she paid us a visit first before coming to Uk but he doesnt know d exact date too.


our mother said she came to UK in 2009 but she paid us a visit before she finally came to UK.



HO said he's not satisfied with our answers and he suspects our mother doesnt visit us regularly


i see this as irrelevant but i stand to be corrected because ther's proof on her passport that she visits and the rent and tenament agreement of where we reside in another country are in her name


2. HO rep said we are 28 and 24years old and we claim we have always been in school till 2years ago and he is not satisfied we havent taken up any form of employment back home or in UK.


3.HO rep also said my mother's p60 says she earns £5000 annually,how is it then possible she takes care of 3 children and she also pays rent of another £1000/year in another country.

my mum was quick to answer that she retired in her home country and her entitlements are paid monthly into her account in her home country and she also receives working tax credit of about £200 monthly


pls advice me on this


Finally our lawyer argued that we satisfied all requirements under Regulation 7(direct family member) and also Regulation 8(extended family member) whichever way they looked at it.

These are the documents we provided ; rent and tenament agreement of the house we live in another country in my mother's name,proof of address from back home and UK,electricity bills of the house back home in my name,proof of money transfer for the past 10years.


please i need some advice on my chances

[davex1890]

Please can anybody with relevant experience advice me about my case?

[DestinyChild]

Davex1890,

I received my RC this year and my case was a bit similar to yours. We had to go for an appeal hearing in London and we won the appeal by the grace of God. I have gone through your case and I'm still wondering why you've had to go through so much hassle to get your Residence Card. Your Mother is an EEA Citizen and you're depending on her. Since you've provided all the documents they requested for, I feel you will win the appeal. On my own appeal day, the HO Representative did not turn up and the Judge that heard our case at the tribunal was angry with the HO. I'm wondering why the HO Rep turned up on your Appeal Day. This means the UKBA feel they something to win against you and your brother. You were also cross examined separately. I hope you, your brother and your Mum have not given conflicting statements when you were being questioned separately. This could affect the outcome of your Appeal.

You would have to wait for the outcome of the appeal as you will receive a letter from the Tribunal stating if your appeal was allowed or dismissed. My prayer is that you will win the appeal. You have a strong case, mate. Just wait for that letter from the Tribunal. You should get a reply concerning the outcome of the appeal in 3 weeks at least. We got a reply to our appeal in about 8 days. I wish you the best. Cheers.

[davex1890]

Destiny Child,

Thanks very much for the reply.The only difference in our statement was when the HO asked if our mother left europe for UK directly or she paid us a visit in another country before coming to UK and he wanted the exact dates.

We were not sure of the dates but we were sure she paid us a visit before finally settling in UK
i just feel this is irrelevant as we gave them proof that we were members of her household in another country till the time we left for the UK.

In all fairness I think we have a good case but it all lies with the Judge now

[davex1890]

Then how long did it take to get your passport back after you won the appeal?

[DestinyChild]

Our Passports were returned with our Residence Cards in it about 7 weeks after we won our appeal ( 7 weeks after the Judge allowed our appeal ). Our solicitor had to write the Home Office to speed up work in issuing our RC's since we had triumphed at the tribunal. Just wait for the decision of the Judge at the tribunal before knowing the next steps to take. Cheers.

[davex1890]

Thanks a lot. I'll post a msg as soon as i get the decision.Cheers

[davex1890]

my appeal was dismissed and these are the reasons

lack of inconsistentency as to whether our sponsor went to africa to stay with us before coming to UK .The judge said our mother said she came directly directly to Uk from europe and we said she visited us before coming.
Though there was documentary proof that the rent of the apartment we stayed was in her name

2. The length of time she stayed with us was also questioned,the judge concluded that she only paid us visits.

3.that we came to UK on visit visas meaning we were not dependent on our mother before coming to UK

4.A document showed my mother sent a van to me in 2005,with this they believe i used this for business.

5.We didnt provide documents that we were in education till 2009.

My question now is should we go to upper tribunal or re-apply and address all these points?,i really need advice

[davex1890]

Someone with relevant experience should please advise me

[Gyfrinachgar]

Someone with relevant experience should please advise me

Considering that a judge expressed serious doubts about your story, the outlook is in my eyes gloomy. However, without knowing much more about the situation, one is unable to even tell whether you have any chance left or not, let alone give you advice on how to proceed.

In order to give you reliable and helpful advice on such a complex and tricky topic, one would need to know *much* more about the situation. For example, the exact details of your mother's arrivals and what she said to whom, how and by whom the van was used, what the precise reason for the judge's doubts was, etc. That would go in very much detail, be extremely personal and cost a lot of effort. Are you sure you can decisively address all these points in the first place?

Since the situation already seems to have escalated far beyond the normal level, I think your best course of action would be to seek professional legal council.

[davex1890]

my mother came to UK from europe in 2009 but but she actually last visited us in 2008 and throughout 2009 she sent money to us and we were also living in her house then she visited us in 2010 before she came in 2011 and we entered UK together but on a visit visa
As for the van we were with it for two years and meanwhile i was in school.
And even if i was using the bus for business my mum was still sending money and i was mainly dependant on her.


I will appreciate if i get the helplines for more advice and i also appreciate contributions from the board

[DestinyChild]

Davex1890, I really feel for you with the decision of the Judge which has led to the dismissal of your appeal. The Judge seems to have strong points in dismissing your appeal but I am not saying you can't Reapply or go to the Higher Tribunal. Lets look at the points raised by the Judge again:

1. The Judge said you did not come to the UK as dependents of your EEA Mother. The decision states that you entered into the UK on Visit Visas. While it is not mandatory that you should be legal in Britain at the time of your EEA Family Member Application, it would have made more sense to the Immigration Judge ( Who are mostly very impartial and sometimes hostile to Home Office Representatives ) if you had come into the UK on EEA Family Permits as the EEA National sponsoring you is your mother. The Home Office and the Judge have a strong point here.
2. The issue of the Van being sent to you shows that you were using the van for business and therefore you were not receiving monetary assistance from your Mum. I could go on and on but I feel your appeal was not well packaged and your Barrister on the Appeal Day did not help matters.

You still stand a chance though. Your Mother is an EEA National exercising treaty rights in the UK. Is your Mum working here in Britain? If your mum maintains that she wants you to be with her, there is nothing the Home office or the Tribunal can really do. I feel you Mum has to take the Centre stage at the Upper Tribunal. I will advice you to take the case to the Upper Tribunal. Cheers and all the best as you take the next steps.

[davex1890]

my mum told the judge that i tried to use the bus for business but when it didnt work we had to sell the bus as i was in school at the time

we were not sure of the exact dates my mum left europe for UK so we thought it was in 2009 but its actually in december 2008 but she sends money all the time so i can prove member of household and financial dependency

[nonspecifics]

I'm not an expert on Upper Tribunals, so this is opinion.

I believe that for an Upper Tribunal appeal to succeed, you have to prove that the judge made a material error in law to such an extent that the decision of the Tribunal was wrong.

In other words, he didn't correctly interpret and apply the law to your case.

The Upper Tribunal is not the place to try to add new evidence or make a new application - as I believe they can only review the legal decision based on the evidence already presented at the the first tribunal.

Thus, if it is the case that your evidence did not prove your case or your evidence was contradictory and conflicting, it may be hard to win a further appeal.

Some lawyers will offer to fight the case further because they get paid to do that, whether you have a good chance of winning or not.

Hopefully, this can be confirmed or corrected by those more experienced in Upper Tribunal procedures.

[davex1890]

yes my mum has been working here in Britain since early 2010.There is money transfer proof between my mother and i from when we had the van till we sold it and even much after we sold it.

[davex1890]

thank you all for all the replies.
As we cant add any other evidence then i think we better re apply and add as much evidence as we can

Because the caseworker will refer to the judgement at the tribunal.
I hope the caseworker will consider all additional evidence and not just look at the Judge's reasons and ignore the rest

[davex1890]

At long last.

My Timeline;

Applied April 2011
COA received May 2011
Refused Sept 22 2011 with right to appeal
Appeal was heard end of October
Appeal dismissed November 7 2011
Sent Fresh Application November 15 2011
Got COA November 29

And finally i got my RC december 12 2011

Applied as dependent child of eea national over the age of 21

Goodluck to everyone

[nonspecifics]

Congratulations on receiving your residence card.

Please, for the benefit of others, can you tell us why you think this application was approved? What new evidence did you send with it?

[Obie]

Congratulation. A wonderful turn of event.

Enjoy your residence card.

[davex1890]

Thank you so very much
It has really been a frustrating journey and after my appeal was dismissed all i needed to do was understand my circumstances and i have to say a big thank you to Obie and everyone in this forum cos i learnt a lot from here.


In the fresh application i added proof of dependency(financial and membership of household) back home and here in the UK with more emphasis on dependency here in UK.
Bear in mind that i dont have any bank account in UK so all i had to do was prove i was a member of my mum's household by including letters addressed to me and utility bills and rent in my mum's name [/b]