ILR or Extension, Speeding conviction International Permit

[normal_human]

My current Tier 1 extension visa will expire soon so I will have to apply for either ILR or Extension. I fulfil all other requirement. But I have a Speeding Conviction (SP30).

I was driving on International Driving License at the time of speeding convection so I had to go to court and the judge fined me £60, SP30 and £15 Court fee.

So according to Rehabilitation of Offenders Act I have an unspent conviction and I will have to wait for 5 years from the date of convection to get it spent. There is no mentioning of CBR check in ILR application guidance or form and Home Office team will have access to more records and databases then CBR check.

I will have to mention the convection on the ILR form anyways because it is required.

My question is under these circumstances should I apply for ILR or go for another Extension?

If I go according to words in the ILR guidelines and Form I am only eligible for Extension.

Being fined by court gives you unspent conviction for five years anyways.

I have seen other threads where it is recommended that if CBR check is clear then you can apply for ILR I think it is misleading even if the Home Office have no record you still have to mention your own convictions on the form.

[geriatrix]

Driving offences when driving on an International licence (non-EU) are dealt with by the courts (procedure). This doesn't necessarily mean that you have an "unspent conviction"!

So, check on your own whether you have a unspent conviction, and plan further course of action accordingly.

[normal_human]

Driving offences when driving on an International licence (non-EU) are dealt with by the courts (procedure). This doesn't necessarily mean that you have an "unspent conviction"!

So, check on your own whether you have a unspent conviction, and plan further course of action accordingly.

I already know about that check forum but I doubtful about the suggestions. I am sure that any fine given by Court to you leads to 5 years of unspent conviction. I am also not sure that CBR check is sufficent to check your unspent convictions.

Also you have to declare all convictions in your ILR forum declaring that you have been fined in court leads to automatic invalidity of application.

And I also think that once your ILR application is refused you can not apply for Extension later.

[geriatrix]

I am sure that any fine given by Court to you leads to 5 years of unspent conviction.

Are you?

[normal_human]

I am sure that any fine given by Court to you leads to 5 years of unspent conviction.

Are you?

Last Post # 6 in your following recommended thread
http://www.immigrationboards.com/viewtopic.php?t=79826
concluds that this leads to a conviction and it will be spent after Five years.

Your other recommended thread here
http://www.immigrationboards.com/viewtopic.php?t=80958
I disagree with that as this means you are liying to the Home Office by putting No when you have a driving conviction. And also ILR application form says that you will have to disclose even all the Fixed Penalty Notices as if you have too many FPNs in a short time then you will be refused ILR. Also provided that you have already mentioned your Driving Conviction at the time of Extension already, they have record of your existing applications.

Also can somebody confirm that once your ILR application is refused, you can not apply for Extension later?

[normal_human]

I am sure that any fine given by Court to you leads to 5 years of unspent conviction.

Are you?

Last Post # 6 in your following recommended thread
http://www.immigrationboards.com/viewtopic.php?t=79826
concluds that this leads to a conviction and it will be spent after Five years.

Your other recommended thread here
http://www.immigrationboards.com/viewtopic.php?t=80958
I disagree with that as this means you are liying to the Home Office by putting No when you have a driving conviction. And also ILR application form says that you will have to disclose even all the Fixed Penalty Notices as if you have too many FPNs in a short time then you will be refused ILR. Also provided that you have already mentioned your Driving Conviction at the time of Extension already, they have record of your existing applications.

Also can somebody confirm that once your ILR application is refused, you can not apply for Extension later?

Any answers?

[normal_human]

I am sure that any fine given by Court to you leads to 5 years of unspent conviction.

Are you?

Last Post # 6 in your following recommended thread
http://www.immigrationboards.com/viewtopic.php?t=79826
concluds that this leads to a conviction and it will be spent after Five years.

Your other recommended thread here
http://www.immigrationboards.com/viewtopic.php?t=80958
I disagree with that as this means you are liying to the Home Office by putting No when you have a driving conviction. And also ILR application form says that you will have to disclose even all the Fixed Penalty Notices as if you have too many FPNs in a short time then you will be refused ILR. Also provided that you have already mentioned your Driving Conviction at the time of Extension already, they have record of your existing applications.

Also can somebody confirm that once your ILR application is refused, you can not apply for Extension later?

Any answers?

Any answers?

[normal_human]

Are you?

Last Post # 6 in your following recommended thread
http://www.immigrationboards.com/viewtopic.php?t=79826
concluds that this leads to a conviction and it will be spent after Five years.

Your other recommended thread here
http://www.immigrationboards.com/viewtopic.php?t=80958
I disagree with that as this means you are liying to the Home Office by putting No when you have a driving conviction. And also ILR application form says that you will have to disclose even all the Fixed Penalty Notices as if you have too many FPNs in a short time then you will be refused ILR. Also provided that you have already mentioned your Driving Conviction at the time of Extension already, they have record of your existing applications.

Also can somebody confirm that once your ILR application is refused, you can not apply for Extension later?

Any answers?

Any answers?

Can anyone here answer for these very basic questions? thanks in advance.

[normal_human]

Last Post # 6 in your following recommended thread
http://www.immigrationboards.com/viewtopic.php?t=79826
concluds that this leads to a conviction and it will be spent after Five years.

Your other recommended thread here
http://www.immigrationboards.com/viewtopic.php?t=80958
I disagree with that as this means you are liying to the Home Office by putting No when you have a driving conviction. And also ILR application form says that you will have to disclose even all the Fixed Penalty Notices as if you have too many FPNs in a short time then you will be refused ILR. Also provided that you have already mentioned your Driving Conviction at the time of Extension already, they have record of your existing applications.

Also can somebody confirm that once your ILR application is refused, you can not apply for Extension later?

Any answers?

Any answers?

Can anyone here answer for these very basic questions? thanks in advance.

According to this post some unspent convictions might not appear in CRB check. Considering the fact that UKBA has direct access to PNC (Police National Computer). It seems clear that advise to do your CRB check for unspent convictions for the purpose of settlement application is wrong and this advise can put you in very big trouble buy making you do another unspent conviction of lying to UKBA and not disclosing your conviction.
I have also contacted Nacro today and told them that I appeared in court for speeing (SP30) due to international license and NACRO told me clearly that I have unspent conviction for 5 years due to this fine from court. Nacro told me whatever the reason if you are fined by court you have 5 years of unspent conviction.
About other member of this form who have got settlement even afte having fines from court due to driving conviction were lucky and they have done something wrong as well by not diclosing this on their settlement application form. It is like taking risk not telling UKBA when you have been actually fined in court when UKBA will find this information in PNC or any other record they might still treat it as unspent conviction and you will be convicted of hiding conviction from UKBA anyways it is too big risk to take and the advise given by experienced members of this forum is wrong. UKBA does not need CRB check to check your record they have direct access to the record that is used to make CRB certificate.

[rushabhjvora]

Hi mate,

Are you going to extend your visa or going ahead with ILR? Your case is similar to mine as I got fine from court for not paying road tax. Enforcement officers came to my house but in my case, I was not aware of the fine itself.

I was thinking that in Tier 1 (general) extension form, same question is asked: Do you have any criminal conviction or not??
Dont you think the criminal threshold check for Tier 1 (general) extension and ILR is same?? as both ask the same question?

Its very confusing. I would still extend the visa rather than taking risk at teh last moment.....

[DarkKnight007]

There are two kinds of CRB checks. The first one is normal CRB check and the other one is called “Enhanced CRB check”. An enhanced CRB check will show all the criminal offences you have done in your lifetime. They will stay on your record forever. There is nothing you can do about it.

But under the “Rehabilitation of Offenders Act 1974” the offences that become “spent” you don’t have to mention them or if you do, the Home Office has to DISREGARD it because of that law.

Go and check the DirectGov website for how long endorsements stay on your driving licence. I think its four years but that’s for UK driving licence.
It’s not a big deal to have a speeding conviction on your driving licence provided all other aspects of your application are squeaky clean and you have all the other required documents neede

[rushabhjvora]

Hi Mate,

Does UKBA do a normal CRB check or an enhanced CRB check for ILR application?
I am three months short of completing 5 years from the conviction date, do you think it’s a good idea to go for Tier 1 extension (HSMP) and not take a risk? Or UKBA also does a enhanced CRB check for Tier 1 extensions?
My offense was not to pay road tax in 2007 (never received any letters as all went to previous address) and found about the offense in July 2011. I also extended my Tier 1 (HSMP) in August 2009 (after conviction date) without any problems.

Thanks mate,

Rushabh

[normal_human]

Hi Mate,

Does UKBA do a normal CRB check or an enhanced CRB check for ILR application?
I am three months short of completing 5 years from the conviction date, do you think it’s a good idea to go for Tier 1 extension (HSMP) and not take a risk? Or UKBA also does a enhanced CRB check for Tier 1 extensions?
My offense was not to pay road tax in 2007 (never received any letters as all went to previous address) and found about the offense in July 2011. I also extended my Tier 1 (HSMP) in August 2009 (after conviction date) without any problems.

Thanks mate,

Rushabh

You have to mention your unspent convictions in case of Extension too but that will not affect the application as you are not applying for settlement. The rule of Zero Criminality Threshold only applies to settlement.
I think that DarkKnight007 is confuse as you have clearly mentioned that your time of 5 years is not spent yet so that part is already clear. Also it does not matter if you get a Enhanced or Basic CRB check. UKBA will access the data directly from PNC and more sources about you and they will definitely find that you have been fined by court and also the exact date when you were fined, so according to current law and rules they should treat any fine from court to be spent after 5 years, its does not matter if it is shown on CRB certificate or not, a fine from court is a fine from court.
I am 90% going to apply for Extension and I think that CRB check is a waste of money.

[rushabhjvora]

OK, I now understand but its worth to contact UKBA about this.

If UKBA say in writing that its one minor offense and we can over look it then you can go for ILR directly.

If rule of Zero Criminality Threshold only applies to settlement, cant you take following approch??

1) Go for ILR in person, you'll know the outcome in 24 hours. Spend 25GBP on a disclosure scotland and if case work is practicle and does not do a enhanced CRB you are fine.
CRB will check police national computer
Enhanced CRB will check police national computer + local computers.

2) If its a reject, then you can apply for Tier 1 (extension).

I am planning for the above route.

I find it very silly to extend my Tier 1 just for 3 months and then apply for ILR. Road tax should be looked at minor criminal conviction. I am going to call UKBA today and will let you know what they suggest.

[normal_human]

OK, I now understand but its worth to contact UKBA about this.

If UKBA say in writing that its one minor offense and we can over look it then you can go for ILR directly.

If rule of Zero Criminality Threshold only applies to settlement, cant you take following approch??

1) Go for ILR in person, you'll know the outcome in 24 hours. Spend 25GBP on a disclosure scotland and if case work is practicle and does not do a enhanced CRB you are fine.
CRB will check police national computer
Enhanced CRB will check police national computer + local computers.

2) If its a reject, then you can apply for Tier 1 (extension).

I am planning for the above route.

I find it very silly to extend my Tier 1 just for 3 months and then apply for ILR. Road tax should be looked at minor criminal conviction. I am going to call UKBA today and will let you know what they suggest.

Once your application for ILR is refused due to not disclosing your unspent conviction you will have another unspent conviction from hiding the facts from UKBA and another 5 years counter will start.
You can not know anything until the case worker works on your application I don't think UKBA will be able to answer this question in advance as per rules you have unpsent conviction.
Why are you taking so big risk for just 3 months? If you are eligible for 3 ILR now in all other aspects then u r eligible for Extension as well and what is gona change in 3 months. Yes I understand that you will have to spent double visa fee but it is still far better. In my case I have to wait for another year and a time of year is far too risky you can loose a job and might not be able to meet the earning requirment again etc.
UKBA has nothing to do with CRB check you can say that they have a different more advanced system of checking criminal record it is even more advanced then PNC you can not know until u work in UKBA anyways you have work according to law and rules.
I don't think it is a good idea to start another five years just for 3 months.
Thank you and please let me know the result of your discussion with UKBA on phone I will be waiting.

[rushabhjvora]

Sure, I'll let you know once I speak with them.
I am going to try whole afternoon today untill I find some one.

I completely understand your point, its just matter of spending double visa fees.

According to me, if I go for ILR first, its a chance. I am definately going to mention about my offense with a clean disclosure scotland.
Now I cannot do a enhanced CRB anyways, so its upto them to look further. I am not hiding anything, I am saying that I hvae criminal convictions. In worst case my application will be refused.

Thereafter I'll go for Tier 1 (extension).

This is because I have seen people with more sever offenses, drinking and driving, getting banned for 20 months and still getting ILR.

Also, in my case, a case worker from NACRO said that UKBA will consider this as a minor criminal offense and UKBA should not have any issues. NACRO also said that UKBA only checks for severe criminal offenses (I am not saying that UKBA cannot check other local police records, but for ILR purpose, UKBA looks for major criminal offenses).

I am not sure if I'll take a chance but I have 6 months with me to think and look for more evidences from people getting ILR with minor criminal unspent convictions.

Will let you know what UKBA said.

[normal_human]

Sure, I'll let you know once I speak with them.
I am going to try whole afternoon today untill I find some one.

I completely understand your point, its just matter of spending double visa fees.

According to me, if I go for ILR first, its a chance. I am definately going to mention about my offense with a clean disclosure scotland.
Now I cannot do a enhanced CRB anyways, so its upto them to look further. I am not hiding anything, I am saying that I hvae criminal convictions. In worst case my application will be refused.

Thereafter I'll go for Tier 1 (extension).

This is because I have seen people with more sever offenses, drinking and driving, getting banned for 20 months and still getting ILR.

Also, in my case, a case worker from NACRO said that UKBA will consider this as a minor criminal offense and UKBA should not have any issues. NACRO also said that UKBA only checks for severe criminal offenses (I am not saying that UKBA cannot check other local police records, but for ILR purpose, UKBA looks for major criminal offenses).

I am not sure if I'll take a chance but I have 6 months with me to think and look for more evidences from people getting ILR with minor criminal unspent convictions.

Will let you know what UKBA said.

What are you going to answer about in the form in the section where they ask about do you have any unspent conviction that only have two options to tick Yes or No. Where will you tick Yes or No?

[rushabhjvora]

Called UKBA.

She said that if you have unspent convictions, you cannot apply untill its spent. Thats very obvious answer.

I asked can I apply for an extension. She said that you cannot if the conviction is unspent.

I am tensed now.

Basically I cannot apply for Tier 1 extension or an ILR because of this unspent conviction by not paying a road tax which was not my mistake at the first place.

Can any one give me a link saying that criminal threshold rules does not apply to Tier 1 (extension)?? may be UKBA person whom I talked might not have this knowledge.

[ilrdec11]

Dont worry about it, people with convictions got the ILR. Its upto to the caseworker discretion how they will treat whether minor or major.

Caseworker will not spare if your offence shows in PNC , if not in PNC then depends upon the severity they will consider. Drink driving, no insurance etc are severe.

I emailed UKBA long time back whether to apply or not but they said its up to caseworker how they decide. if you call center each person gives different answer.

[ilrdec11]

Criminality threshold is only for Settlement and Citizenship and not for Tier1 visas. These call centre personnel should be trained well.

[rushabhjvora]

Mate,

I am v tensed now. Going to have a bad weekend.

Do you have a link (UKBA link) which says that criminal threshold is only for settlement and citizenship and not for Tier 1 visas??

That link will be life saver.

[normal_human]

Called UKBA.

She said that if you have unspent convictions, you cannot apply untill its spent. Thats very obvious answer.

I asked can I apply for an extension. She said that you cannot if the conviction is unspent.

I am tensed now.

Basically I cannot apply for Tier 1 extension or an ILR because of this unspent conviction by not paying a road tax which was not my mistake at the first place.

Can any one give me a link saying that criminal threshold rules does not apply to Tier 1 (extension)?? may be UKBA person whom I talked might not have this knowledge.

Criminality Threshold only applies to settlement. This is also confirmed in an email from UKBA provided in post here
I will also recomment that instead of calling UKBA on phone, send them an email and wait for their response in email or better send a post as verbal communication does not have that much legal value as the written one.

[ilrdec11]

I have sent an email long time back explaining the same ( ie clear CRB but having court fine). He said its upto caseworker how they handle the case.Couple of people with like these convictions got ILR approved in CRYODON PEO.

[rushabhjvora]

Spoke with NACRO and he said UKBA does not have access to police local computers. so if a standard disclosure scotland is clean, you dont have to worry. UKBA only checks police national computer.

They wont object any non-recordable offenses such as not paid road tax. He said to me to relax and apply for settlement in July 2012.

He said mention about the offense. In notes, say that I was not sure if this is spent or not therefore I have done a standard Disclosure scotland check and its spent.

I belive this unless some one shows me a case where ILR is rejected on criminality threshold even if the person had a clean standard disclosre scotland.

[sarath1212]

Spoke with NACRO and he said UKBA does not have access to police local computers. so if a standard disclosure scotland is clean, you dont have to worry. UKBA only checks police national computer.

They wont object any non-recordable offenses such as not paid road tax. He said to me to relax and apply for settlement in July 2012.

He said mention about the offense. In notes, say that I was not sure if this is spent or not therefore I have done a standard Disclosure scotland check and its spent.

I belive this unless some one shows me a case where ILR is rejected on criminality threshold even if the person had a clean standard disclosre scotland.

How about PCN ? I have got the PCN for drove into restricted route and got the letter from Newham council to pay the fine of £65 and paid immediately.Do i need to disclose this in the ILR application?