Questions about Permanent Residence EEA4

[seputus]

Same as with residence card; use the EU line; no landing card; no stamp. No need to be accompanying or joining anymore either, you're independent of EU family member.

Hi all. Just got my EEA4 approved finally

Can anyone show me some relevant legislation that shows I don't have to fill out a landing card? Everything on the UKBA site says that I do.

e.g. :

http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/custo ... eaorswiss/

[Directive/2004/38/EC]

UKBA’s Border Force Operations Manual

4.3 Landing cards for non-EEA family members
Family members do not normally need to produce landing cards. However, this does not apply when a person‟s claim to be a family member is assessed and accepted for the first time at port and admitted on a Code 1A. This is because we do not otherwise have a record of the person.

[Plum70]

UKBA’s Border Force Operations Manual

4.3 Landing cards for non-EEA family members
Family members do not normally need to produce landing cards. However, this does not apply when a person‟s claim to be a family member is assessed and accepted for the first time at port and admitted on a Code 1A. This is because we do not otherwise have a record of the person.

How did you find the manual? On the UKBA site it is unavailable and still being updated after almost 2 years! I'm saving a copy of this.

[seputus]

Ahh.. good link Mr. Directive!

Even better, from within this manual:

5.2 Endorsing the passports of residence card holders - Regulation 11(3)
A Border Force officer may not place a stamp in the passport of a person who holds
a residence card when he is admitted to the UK, even if they do not hold an EEA
family permit. Regulation 11(3) expressly prohibits an officer from endorsing the
passport of a person who holds a valid residence card or permanent residence card.
In addition these passengers are not required to fill in a landing card and should not
be asked to do so.
5.3 Permanent residence card holders
An EEA national and/or family member acquires a permanent right of residence if
they have been resident in the UK in accordance with the EEA Regulations for five
years; this applies to all EEA nationals including the accession states. Once
permanent residence has been acquired there is no requirement for the EEA national
to be in the UK in order for the family member to be admitted and to reside.
Examination should be to establish that the passenger is the rightful holder of the
document and that he has not been absent from the UK for more than 2 years.

[Directive/2004/38/EC]

The Border Force Operations Manual: EEA Nationals and their Dependents comes from the results of a UKBA FOI request

Links to this and other fun stuff are on the UK page: http://eumovement.wordpress.com/eu-coun ... d-kingdom/

[lmuee08]

The Border Force Operations Manual: EEA Nationals and their Dependents comes from the results of a UKBA FOI request

Links to this and other fun stuff are on the UK page: http://eumovement.wordpress.com/eu-coun ... d-kingdom/

Thanks Directive. I think that explains why they have stopped stampping on my passport and teared off my landing card and let me go through the EU/UK gate

[denispearl]

2. How soon can I apply for UK citizenship and will then my info matter unlike EEA4 application when they only wanted to know about my EU spouse's history?

1 year after automatically acquiring PR - this will require producing your wife's docs again as your PR card will reflect a later date. One year after holding your PR card will not require your wife's docs. Your choice.

3. How different is PR from ILR and (from the obvious no-fee vs fee and one falling under UK law and the other under EEA law) Are they essentially treated as the same thing once granted?

No other differences that I can think of.[/quote]

Hey. Please advice what documents from my ex eea wife I would need to provide to HO, when I would like to apply for UK citizenship. I would like to apply 1 year after my PR automaticly accrued. Also do i really need to have a guarantor when applying for citizenship and where I can find out more about it? Thank you

[Directive/2004/38/EC]

Best place to start learning about citizenship is http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/britishcitizenship/

[denispearl]

Best place to start learning about citizenship is http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/britishcitizenship/

Hi. Thanks for reply.

Yes I have been on that site many times. But the thing it I havent seen ANY information that guarantor needed for UK citezinship application there. Maybe I missed something. I have learned about some kind of guarantor apparently needed on this forum and this confused me a bit. I have checked internet and didnt find anything related to this particular matter. So now I really need information on this to clarify.

Also I would really appreciate any info related application for citezenship 1 year after PR automaticly obtained with my ex wife documents. What documents should be provided? I have limited support from her and if ID is involved - i dont think I would be able to get it from her, as she is dissapointed with the speed of procession of my current EEA$ application . She was expecting ID back in few week, but HO didnt listen our need. Plus she would be changing her surname and i dont think it would be easy for HO with that kind of things or i might be wrong.

Thank you for all help.

Denis

[Jambo]

Yes I have been on that site many times. But the thing it I havent seen ANY information that guarantor needed for UK citezinship application there. Maybe I missed something. I have learned about some kind of guarantor apparently needed on this forum and this confused me a bit. I have checked internet and didnt find anything related to this particular matter. So now I really need information on this to clarify.

Also I would really appreciate any info related application for citezenship 1 year after PR automaticly obtained with my ex wife documents. What documents should be provided? I have limited support from her and if ID is involved - i dont think I would be able to get it from her, as she is dissapointed with the speed of procession of my current EEA$ application . She was expecting ID back in few week, but HO didnt listen our need. Plus she would be changing her surname and i dont think it would be easy for HO with that kind of things or i might be wrong.

Thank you for all help.

Denis

There is no need for guarantor. However the application form requires two references as part of the application (check form AN for more details).

If applying on the 6th anniversary of exercising treaty rights, the evidence required is the same one you provided for the EEA4 application. Just the period to cover might be different by a few months (depending when you applied). The EEA national ID would be needed in this case.

[reda]

The EEA national ID would be needed in this case

.
correct me if I'm wrong,He is divorced and had show ex wife passport to the HO when he applied for RC 5 years ago,no need to send ex wife passport again.

[Jambo]

The EEA national ID would be needed in this case

.
correct me if I'm wrong,He is divorced and had show ex wife passport to the HO when he applied for RC 5 years ago,no need to send ex wife passport again.

It is true for PR application (although he stated he did send his ex ID with his EEA4 application). However, if he wishes to apply directly for BC, I suspect the nationality team in the HO would like to see the EEA ID again even if this was already examined by a different department in the HO a few years back.

[denispearl]

The EEA national ID would be needed in this case

.
correct me if I'm wrong,He is divorced and had show ex wife passport to the HO when he applied for RC 5 years ago,no need to send ex wife passport again.

It is true for PR application (although he stated he did send his ex ID with his EEA4 application). However, if he wishes to apply directly for BC, I suspect the nationality team in the HO would like to see the EEA ID again even if this was already examined by a different department in the HO a few years back.

Thanks guys. Really welcoming development here.

I have sent ex ID as it was required in EEA4 application form. So in the end was it not needed?

Seems like it would be a problem with my exwife again as she is not happy with her ID situation atm and if it wasnt needed to send her ID at first place - makes me angry and really confused with this all HO applications.

From other side - if she would agree to give me an ID again, there is another matter - she would change her surname back to previous obne again. So what would I need to provide to HO this time then?

Thanks

[Jambo]

I would not worry too much about the name change. It is quite common that once divorced, women are returning to their maiden name. You can explain that in the form. For BC application you can use NCS which will copy your documents and return the originals to you so you only need her ID for a few hours.

[Directive/2004/38/EC]

Sorry, I am confused. Why would anyone at UKBA want the ID of the non-applying-ex-spouse when somebody applies for BC?

[denispearl]

Sorry, I am confused. Why would anyone at UKBA want the ID of the non-applying-ex-spouse when somebody applies for BC?

Ok. Seems its time to put it right. We were still technically married when I have applied for PR. but now we few weeks away from divorce.

[Directive/2004/38/EC]

Sorry, I am confused. Why would anyone at UKBA want the ID of the non-applying-ex-spouse when somebody applies for BC?

Ok. Seems its time to put it right. We were still technically married when I have applied for PR. but now we few weeks away from divorce.

The point is that at this point you have PR. Effectively you have a right to remain in the UK no matter what happens to your wife (e.g. divorce, abduction by green aliens, or ongoing happy marriage). Since PR you are not dependent on her existing (from a UK residence perspective).

When you apply for BC, they will doubtless ask if you are married. You simply say divorced.

I see no need to send ex-wife ID with a BC application. Please correct me if it is asked for anywhere in the application.

[denispearl]

Sorry, I am confused. Why would anyone at UKBA want the ID of the non-applying-ex-spouse when somebody applies for BC?

Ok. Seems its time to put it right. We were still technically married when I have applied for PR. but now we few weeks away from divorce.

The point is that at this point you have PR. Effectively you have a right to remain in the UK no matter what happens to your wife (e.g. divorce, abduction by green aliens, or ongoing happy marriage). Since PR you are not dependent on her existing (from a UK residence perspective).

When you apply for BC, they will doubtless ask if you are married. You simply say divorced.

I see no need to send ex-wife ID with a BC application. Please correct me if it is asked for anywhere in the application.

.
Well i still waiting for my PR btw.

Also would I need to provide , on 6th year of exercising treaty rights, any my EX documents at all? Or ID and all confirmation her residendce and work in the UK documents? But, if yes, why? I have supplied those documents with EEA4 didnt i?

Please advice

[Directive/2004/38/EC]

You (will) PR. I do not think the Citizenship people will be at all interested in anything to do with the far past.

They need to know:
You have PR
You have lived in the UK for one more year
You have Life in the Uk
...

Why do you think they will want anything to do with your ex wife?

[denispearl]

You (will) PR. I do not think the Citizenship people will be at all interested in anything to do with the far past.

They need to know:
You have PR
You have lived in the UK for one more year
You have Life in the Uk
...

Why do you think they will want anything to do with your ex wife?

I do think in the way I have been directed by some people here. Who have stated in few posts , that if I want to apply for BC after 6 years of exercising of treaty rights - i would probably supply to HO all my ex documents again, including ID. And if i want to apply 1 year after obtaining of PR - there is no need to mention my ex wife at all.

Please correct or confirm.

thank you

[Jambo]

You (will) PR. I do not think the Citizenship people will be at all interested in anything to do with the far past.

They need to know:
You have PR
You have lived in the UK for one more year
You have Life in the Uk
...

Why do you think they will want anything to do with your ex wife?

Directive,

The issue is that he wants to apply for a BC after the 6th anniversary of exercising treaty rights and not wait for one year after the PR sticker date. So he will need to provide evidence that he (or his ex-wife) has been exercising treaty rights for 5 years leading to the year before the BC application. The PR sticker date confirms that he has been exercising treaty rights for 5 years before that date. If he would wait for one year after the PR sticker date, he would not need to prove it all again. If he doesn't want to wait, he will need to prove it.

[denispearl]

You (will) PR. I do not think the Citizenship people will be at all interested in anything to do with the far past.

They need to know:
You have PR
You have lived in the UK for one more year
You have Life in the Uk
...

Why do you think they will want anything to do with your ex wife?

Directive,

The issue is that he wants to apply for a BC after the 6th anniversary of exercising treaty rights and not wait for one year after the PR sticker date. So he will need to provide evidence that he (or his ex-wife) has been exercising treaty rights for 5 years leading to the year before the BC application. The PR sticker date confirms that he has been exercising treaty rights for 5 years before that date. If he would wait for one year after the PR sticker date, he would not need to prove it all again. If he doesn't want to wait, he will need to prove it.

Yes Jambo. You have it right. I would like to apply As soon as it possible really. Istnt it a bit wrong ? Technically i Have proved my PR with same documents which are required for BC, why should I prove same with same documents yet again when applying for BC?

[Jambo]

Yes Jambo. You have it right. I would like to apply As soon as it possible really. Istnt it a bit wrong ? Technically i Have proved my PR with same documents which are required for BC, why should I prove same with same documents yet again when applying for BC?

Well, the documents may (or may not) be the same but the case workers are looking for two different periods:

- For PR - evidence of continuous 5 years prior to the application.
- For BC - evidence of continuous 5 years ending one year prior to the application.

For example: if you came to the UK on 01/2006 and applied for PR in 06/2011 and want to apply for BC in 01/2012. Evidence from 04/2006-04/2011 would grant you a PR confirmation but for BC it is not good enough.

[denispearl]

Yes Jambo. You have it right. I would like to apply As soon as it possible really. Istnt it a bit wrong ? Technically i Have proved my PR with same documents which are required for BC, why should I prove same with same documents yet again when applying for BC?

Well, the documents may (or may not) be the same but the case workers are looking for two different periods:

- For PR - evidence of continuous 5 years prior to the application.
- For BC - evidence of continuous 5 years ending one year prior to the application.

For example: if you came to the UK on 01/2006 and applied for PR in 06/2011 and want to apply for BC in 01/2012. Evidence from 04/2006-04/2011 would grant you a PR confirmation but for BC it is not good enough.

so why not to ask (for HO) to cover only difference in months, which wasnt covered by documents for PR?

please advice what documents should be submitted to HO for BC.

[Directive/2004/38/EC]

Well, the documents may (or may not) be the same but the case workers are looking for two different periods:
- For PR - evidence of continuous 5 years prior to the application.
- For BC - evidence of continuous 5 years ending one year prior to the application.

For a PR card application, there is no need for the period to be 5 years immediately preceding the application.

The PR card is simply a confirmation of an already existing state known as PR.

So if somebody is meets the requirements to qualify for PR from 2004 for 5 years, and then was out of the UK for 14 months, and since then has been back, the period considered would be the 5 years from 2004 to 2009.

If you do a non-obvious period, then it is very important to explicitly tell UKBA over which period you got your PR. Best to write a cover letter that says "This application is in respect to 5 years of continuous residence from 2004 to 2009"