How to prove Job Seeker for EEA3

[Tyro]

Hello Experts,

My Wife wants to apply for Permanent Residence under EU Law. She is EEA national and has been living in UK for more than 5 years. She has been student till January 2006. Since then have been working on and off. The problem is that she didn't register with Job Centre while she was unemployed. She didn't want to claim any benefit so didn't think that it was necessary to register as Job Seeker.

Is there any way that she can prove that she was actively seeking work, while unemployed in UK in order to get Permanent Residence.

Many Thanks for all your help.

[Directive/2004/38/EC]

Is there any way that she can prove that she was actively seeking work, while unemployed in UK in order to get Permanent Residence

There is no fixed evidence that is required.

What evidence does she have? Did she have interviews? Apply for jobs? Talk with agents? Any letters?

[Tyro]

I think she can find email sent to recruitment agencies, email for interviews.. probably some interview letters as well.
Will that be enough.

She has a lot email communications and some letters...

She didn't have comprehensive sickness insurance. But I guess that is only needed if you are not actively l looking for Job.

What do you think.

[Jambo]

This should be good enough. The only issue might be the length of the periods of employment and job seeking. Was she mainly employed and job seeking in between or the other way around?

[Tyro]

April 2007 to October 2007 Job Seeking + Volunteer Work
October 2007 to March 2011 worked for five different employers.
March 2011--- May 2011 Business Planing
May 2011 Registered as Self employed...
October 2011 Formed a Limited Company.
She is currently self employed and Director of this new limited company.

Is it complicated to prove exercise of treaty rights...!!!???

[Jambo]

what about the period before April 2007?

Proving exercising treaty rights is not complicated. Just need to have evidence confirming your status.

[EUsmileWEallsmile]

Jambo, you are right. Proving treaty rights is not complicated (for those who keep good records).

[Tyro]

Here is the situation before 2007 April.

First came to UK September 2001 for study.
From September 2001 to January 2006. Full time Student.

This is also note worthy that Cyprus joined EU only in 2004.
She holds Cypriot nationality.

So January 2006 to May 2006 actively looking for job (but not registered with job centre or didn't claim job seeker)

In May 2006 she went back to Cyprus, July 2006 she visited England to look for further studies. Here is gap, between July2006 to April 2007 she was missing from UK for 8 months. So we thought to calculate her stay from April 2007.

It is complicated, as we didn't know about EU laws, and we didn't really have plans to stay in UK for so long...

Please let me know what do you experts suggest us to do...

We are married and settled in UK with a child. So it is better to get our passport and stay sorted before they change more rules...

[Tyro]

I worry most for Comprehensive Sickness Insurance. As I heard PR application being refused due to not having Comprehensive Sickness Insurance for the period EEA national was not working.

DO EEA national have to have Comprehensive Sickness Insurance while they are self employed or Director of a Limited company.

Please shed some light on that as well.

[boloney]

I worry most for Comprehensive Sickness Insurance. As I heard PR application being refused due to not having Comprehensive Sickness Insurance for the period EEA national was not working.

DO EEA national have to have Comprehensive Sickness Insurance while they are self employed or Director of a Limited company.

Please shed some light on that as well.

No, they Have to pay national insurance contribution.

[Tyro]

I was just wondering if someone could shed some light on following situation please.

If you register as self employed in UK and running business and have not done much transaction in first year of business, do you still need a comprehensive sickness insurance to cover this area for Permanent Residence Application EEA3.

My wife is EEA national who was employed until March 2011 and have registered herself as self employed, but due to her pregnancy and in order to look after an infant, she is unable to concentrate on business, and business is not doing well.
We are thinking to apply PR for her next year April 2012, when she is completing her five continuous year in UK. However she in UK since 2001 but was missing for 8 months between 2006 and 2007.

[Tyro]

She will be paying minimum National insurance as business is not doing much do to she is looking after a two months old infant. But she is still trying to bring things in action and have formed a limited company. ]

Coming back to previous question, does matter to UKBA how did the business do?

[Directive/2004/38/EC]

There is a EU law requirement that employment be "real and effective". So it is not enough for my uncle to "hire" me, but then I am not doing any work for him. Similarly, I could not be "self employed" but not look for any work.

It is a difficult question in some cases. If your wife was looking for self-employed clients, but did not find them, it is not clear how it might be evaluated.

UKBA seems to have a pretty cut and dry approach to women employees who take care of their new babies. See the FOI response

If an EU citizen has left her her job due to pregnancy or quits after
the birth of a child in order to become a full time carer then she is no
longer classed as a qualified person under the definition of 'worker' as
defined by the Immigration (European Economic Area) Regulations 2006.
This is because she will not be actively seeking work. However, she may
be in a position to be regarded as a qualified person on the basis of
self-sufficiency as long as evidence of self-sufficiency can be provided
as detailed on regulation 4(1)(c).

A woman who has stopped work temporarily because of pregnancy or
childbirth will continue to be classed as a worker as along as she
remains subject to a contract of employment.

[Tyro]

So she should take comprehensive sickness insurance until her business starts doing well.

She never had compressive sickness insurance, she also didn't claim any job seeker allowance while being unemployed.

She is thinking to apply for permanent residence as she will complete her 5 years in uk on April 2012 without any long gap.

So if she is self employed and pay some national insurance, and also show comprehensive sickness insurance from now on then what chances she will have to get PR.

We are very confused now how to prove that she has been exercising treaty rights..

[Tyro]

She is currently on Maternity Allowance and registered as self employed.
Guys please suggest what is the best course to take at the moment...

Any suggestions highly appreciated.

Regards
Tyro

[Tyro]

Any suggestion for EEA3 application.. shall we submit her EEA3 application in April 2012...

Please help

[Obie]

There seems to be lots of breaks in your wifes employment history.

To qualify as jobseekers, you are required to register with the employment agency in the host member state.

After 6 months then you will need to show you are actively seeking work and have a realistic chances of securing work.

I believe during the period of 2001-2006, your wife was a qualified person, even though cyprus was not part of the EU at that time, lawful residency under national law should count towards the lawful residence for PR under EU law.

[Directive/2004/38/EC]

To qualify as jobseekers, you are required to register with the employment agency in the host member state.

Not clear this is true. Why do you say this?

[Obie]

To qualify as jobseekers, you are required to register with the employment agency in the host member state.

Not clear this is true. Why do you say this?

........

3. For the purposes of paragraph 1(a), a Union citizen who is no longer a worker or self-employed
person shall retain the status of worker or self-employed person in the following circumstances:
...........

(b) he/she is in duly recorded involuntary unemployment after having been employed for more
than one year and has registered as a job-seeker with the relevant employment office;
(c) he/she is in duly recorded involuntary unemployment after completing a fixed-term
employment contract of less than a year or after having become involuntarily unemployed
during the first twelve months and has registered as a job-seeker with the relevant
employment office. In this case, the status of worker shall be retained for no less than six
months;

4. By way of derogation from paragraphs 1 and 2 and without prejudice to the provisions of
Chapter VI, an expulsion measure may in no case be adopted against Union citizens or their family
members if:
(a) the Union citizens are workers or self-employed persons, or
(b) the Union citizens entered the territory of the host Member State in order to seek employment.
In this case, the Union citizens and their family members may not be expelled for as long as
the Union citizens can provide evidence that they are continuing to seek employment and that
they have a genuine chance of being engaged.

The provision above essentially applies to people who initially entered the memberstate in search of employment, not people who were studying and then entered employment, or people who worked part time during their studies, . In those circumstances they will not be covered by Article 14, but rather the later provision i cited.

Also see Begum (EEA – worker – jobseeker) Pakistan [2011] UKUT 00275(IAC)

I should have made clear earlier that i was referring to retaining the status as worker, as opposed to Jobseekers.

According to UK's interpretation, for someone to be considered as a jobseeker , they have to have entered the UK as such, and then show they have a realistic chance of securing a Job

[Tyro]

Thanks for all the input.

My Wife entered UK in 2001 as student and left in 2005. So if we leave that period out and do a new count when she came back to UK in 2007.

She Came back to Uk in April 2007 so she completes her 5 years in April 2012.

Her employment history as per below..


April 2007 to October 2007 Job Seeking ( didn't register as job seekers but went for many interview) + Volunteer Work
October 2007 to March 2011 worked for five different employers. with a maximum gap or 3-4 weeks.
March 2011--- May 2011 Business Planing
May 2011 Registered as Self employed...
October 2011 Formed a Limited Company.
She is currently self employed and Director of this new limited company.

We will have to prove the first six months as job seeking to prove her 5 years of exercising treaty rights if she applies for PR in April 2012. ???

Many Thanks

[Directive/2004/38/EC]

Volunteer Work is unfortunately not relevant
Since she formed the Ltd company, is she paying herself a minimal salary?

[Tyro]

She first registered herself as self employed on 1/5/2011 and then formed a limited company last month. Yes she is planing to pay herself a minimum salary.

[Kitty]

I think she could also count the time where she was setting up her business as "self-employment", if she has evidence of what she was doing.

"Self-employed" should be interpreted broadly, with the understanding that people working on their own account may experience times where they are not working for clients/customers, but are still "pursuing" the right of self-establishment.