Transit visa (Spain) confusion

[anakin]

I am residing in the UK for the last 4 years but hold an Indian passport. I do not hold UK Permanent Residency but have a valid UK visa until November 2012.
I am planning on flying to Lima from London Heathrow in mid-December. The Iberian Airlines flight has a changeover in Madrid and the same applies for British Airways while returning.
Can anyone please guide me if I need a transit visa for Spain during the purposes of changeover. I contacted the airline who were not very helpful.

[acme4242]

Provided your change-over is the same day, and your not connecting
again with a second Schengen country, you don't need a transit visa.

You have been resident for 4 years, so you have a resident permit ?
but not a permanent resident permit, right.
So when you say "valid UK visa until November 2012" did you
mean a valid UK resident permit until November 2012

anyway.
Here is the airline and travel agent database info.
this is what airline staff would see if they bothered to check for you.

If you don't have any resident permit for UK, only a visa.
http://www.timaticweb.com/cgi-bin/tim_w ... r=DELTAB2C

National India (IN) /Transit Spain (ES)
Destination Peru (PE)

Spain (ES)
TWOV (Transit Without Visa):
Visa required, except for Nationals of India, holding onward
tickets on the same calendar day TIRULES/R32 *Note: TWOV is
not possible when arriving from a non-Schengen Member State
AND departing to a Schengen Member State TIRULES/R34
- available to holders of a valid visa issued by Bulgaria,
Canada, Cyprus, Ireland (Rep. of), Japan, Liechtenstein,
Romania, USA or United Kingdom, traveling to any
non-Schengen Member State; or
-returning from Bulgaria, Canada, Cyprus, Ireland (Rep.of),
Japan, Romania, USA or United Kingdom after having used the
visa;

If you have a resident permit for UK
http://www.timaticweb.com/cgi-bin/tim_w ... r=DELTAB2C

National India (IN) /Residence United Kingdom (GB)
Transit Spain (ES) /Destination Peru (PE)

Spain (ES)
TWOV (Transit Without Visa):
Visa required, except for Nationals of India, holding onward
tickets on the same calendar day
*Note: TWOV is not possible when arriving from a non-Schengen
Member State AND departing to a Schengen Member State
- available to holders of a Residence Permit issued by United
Kingdom;

[anakin]

You have been resident for 4 years, so you have a resident permit ?
but not a permanent resident permit, right.
So when you say "valid UK visa until November 2012" did you
mean a valid UK resident permit until November 2012

Many thanks acme4242, yes my UK visa states Residence Permit, which as you are aware is different from Permanent Residency (ILR). I hope that will not cause any confusion during transit or even boarding here in London!

The changeover at Madrid is through a different satellite terminal(4S) while the London flight lands at Terminal 4.

I am assuming that UK falls within Schengen space, so this is what the Iberian Airlines website says

Schengen - Not Schengen: Between Europe/Spain and America/Africa/Middle East

If the origin airport of your flight belongs to the Schengen space and the destination is an airport that does not belong to the Schengen space (America, Africa, etc.), on arriving at the terminal, check the boarding gate of your flight on the information screens. In order to board your next flight, you must go down the stairs or lift to the platform where an automatic train will transport you to the Satellite Building , where boarding gates R, S and U are located. Before accessing the boarding zone, there is passport control. Take into account that all this process requires between 20 and 30 minutes, we therefore recommend that you do not delay in transit.
Very rarely, the connection is carried out with Gates M , for which reason we request that you follow the indicating airport signs, as you don't have to change of terminal.

I hope then while moving between terminals, my Peruvian visa should suffice and while returning since I have a UK Residence Permit, it should not cause any issues.

[acme4242]

UK is not in Schengen.

there is no schengen border control
when you transit non-schengen to non-schengen

Only if you had another connecting flight inside Schengen
would you need to enter Schengen, say UK-Spain-Italy-Peru
in this case you need to enter Schengen to get the Spain-Italy leg.

[anakin]

Thanks acme4242 but I dropped an email to the Spanish consulate with my transit visa query. They have sent the below link, now this has left me confused.
http://www.maec.es/subwebs/Consulados/L ... vices.aspx

For Indian passport holders the following applies

(2) AN AIRPORT TRANSIT VISA is required if the person is not a PERMANENT RESIDENT in

Canada,
European Union, or
the USA.

My connection flight from Madrid to Lima and while returning from Madrid to London is also from the same terminal (4S) on the same day (3 hours max changeover).
So if I do not have to change terminals in Madrid, does it necessitate the need for an airport transit visa.

[acme4242]

The requirements have changed based on the issue of the EU visa code
on April 5, 2010. Before April 2010 only holders of a U.K. permanent
residence permit (ILE/ILR) could transit without visa.

The EU Visa Code applies from 5 April 2010 download here
http://eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/Lex ... 810:EN:NOT

To make it really clear, there is a Handbook for Embassy staff which accompanies
the EU visa code
http://ec.europa.eu/home-affairs/polici ... 620_en.pdf

AIRPORT TRANSIT VISAS

Legal basis: Visa Code, Article 3

1.3.1. Which categories of persons are exempted from the airport transit visa requirement?

The following categories of persons are exempt from the obligation to hold an airport transit visa:

b) holders of a valid visa issued by
– Bulgaria, Cyprus, Romania, Liechtenstein, the Ireland or the United Kingdom
– Canada, Japan or the United States of America or when they return from those countries after having used the visa;

c) holders of a valid residence permit
– issued by Ireland or the United Kingdom;

EU Press release >here<

BBC news Article >here<

[anakin]

Many thanks acme4242, you are a star!

I also found some latest amendments here

http://eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/Lex ... FIN:EL:PDF

12. This Regulation constitutes a development of provisions of the Schengen acquis in which the United Kingdom does not take part, in accordance with Council Decision 2000/365/EC of 29 May 2000 concerning the request of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland to take part in some of the provisions of the Schengen acquis [9]; the United Kingdom is therefore not taking part in its adoption and is not bound by it or subject to its application.

I am assuming that the ATV exemptions still hold true for Residence Permit visa holders for countries like UK which do not apply Schengen acquis in full

In Article 3 (5) of Regulation (EC) No 810/2009 points (b) and (c) are replaced by the following:

"(b) third-country nationals holding a valid residence permit issued by a Member State of the European Union which does not take part in the adoption of the present Regulation or by a Member State of the European Union which does not yet apply the provisions of the Schengen acquis in full, or holding one of the valid residence permits listed in Annex V issued by Andorra, Canada, Japan, San Marino or the United States of America guaranteeing the holder's unconditional readmission;

(c) third country nationals holding a valid visa for a Member State of the European Union which does not take part in the adoption of the present Regulation or for a Member State of the European Union which does not yet apply the provisions of the Schengen acquis in full, Canada, Japan or the United States of America, when travelling to the issuing country or any other third country, or when having used the visa they return from the issuing country;".

[acme4242]

I am assuming that the ATV exemptions still hold true for Residence Permit visa holders for countries like UK which do not apply Schengen acquis in full

yes, that's what the EU law and the handbook instructions for Spanish Embassy says.
And importantly, the Airline database for checking visas also says that
very clearly, see my earlier post about Timatic entry.
This is what will really be checked when you fly, so please print it
and bring it with you.

This in the law since April 2010, so by all means raise this issue
with the Spanish Embassy in London.
Are the Spanish Embassy and Spanish Ministry using outdated information
in violation of the current law.
Seek clarification, and get back to us.
Doing so, will make life easier for the next person.

[anakin]

This in the law since April 2010, so by all means raise this issue
with the Spanish Embassy in London.
Are the Spanish Embassy and Spanish Ministry using outdated information
in violation of the current law.
Seek clarification, and get back to us.
Doing so, will make life easier for the next person.

Yup, I have already emailed the Spanish consulate stating they need to update the information on their website in line with the Community Code on Visas. Will update if and when they get back.

[anakin]

acme4242 , wanted to provide an update. The Spanish consulate has not confirmed the ATV requirements yet. In the meantime I have got hold of another document contained within the below link which seems to suggest that Indian passport holders need an ATV for Spain. The document is fairly recent, 26.01.2011.

http://ec.europa.eu/home-affairs/polici ... 1%20EN.pdf

I am now worried as I do not even have sufficient time to apply for ATV for Spain. What is the worst case scenario. I read on another post that an Irish woman travelling with her Nigerian husband was refused boarding.
The prospect of wasting a hell lot of money which we have already spent on a holiday we were waiting for so long is unbearable. All this for just not having an ATV although we have confirmed onward journey tickets and also visa for our final destination.
Can we get an ATV at the airport if we carry all relevant visa documents with us?

[acme4242]

Firstly, the document you found is not new, only a new revision,
and yes, if you did not have UK residence permit or UK visa
you would require a transit visa.

Please remember
you are in transit from non-Schengen to non-Schengen.
so you will not enter any Schengen border control.

It will be the airline check-in staff that will check you.
If they look in their manual or on-line database, this is what
they will find. Please print this out, and keep it in your back pocket
But there should be no need to take it out. Unless the staff are clueless.
as happened in the post you mention of the Irish woman travelling
with her Nigerian husband who where refused boarding.

If you have a resident permit for UK
http://www.timaticweb.com/cgi-bin/tim_w ... r=DELTAB2C

National India (IN) /Residence United Kingdom (GB)
Transit Spain (ES) /Destination Peru (PE)

Spain (ES)
TWOV (Transit Without Visa):
Visa required, except for Nationals of India, holding onward
tickets on the same calendar day
*Note: TWOV is not possible when arriving from a non-Schengen
Member State AND departing to a Schengen Member State
- available to holders of a Residence Permit issued by United
Kingdom;

[lizetam]

Hi,
I hold a Tier 1 Post study work visa (residence permit) unitl Oct next year, I am originally from Peru and I'm travelling to Lima on Saturday 24th dec, I asked previously and was told I didn't need a visa and now the airline told me I do, also the service company that provides visa for shengen area in London (very confusing), I'm travelling to terminal 4 & 4S of Madrid airport and will stay there for a maximum of 4 hours. Could you please advice if you know if I require a transit visa?

Many thanks for the help,
Lorena

[acme4242]

Hi,
I hold a Tier 1 Post study work visa (residence permit) unitl Oct next year, I am originally from Peru and I'm travelling to Lima on Saturday 24th dec, I asked previously and was told I didn't need a visa and now the airline told me I do, also the service company that provides visa for shengen area in London (very confusing), I'm travelling to terminal 4 & 4S of Madrid airport and will stay there for a maximum of 4 hours. Could you please advice if you know if I require a transit visa?

Many thanks for the help,
Lorena

Whoever to talked to in airline and service company did not check their
TIM manual.
Ask them to actually check their TIM manual for visa regulations.

You can check the data online here
http://www.delta.com/planning_reservati ... formation/

here is the result
http://www.timaticweb.com/cgi-bin/tim_w ... r=DELTAB2C

National Peru (PE) /Residence United Kingdom (GB)
Transit Spain (ES) /Destination Peru (PE)

Spain (ES)

TWOV (Transit Without Visa):
Visa required, except for Holders of onward tickets for a max.
transit TIRULES/R32 on the same claendar day
*Note: TWOV is not possible when arriving from a non-Schengen
Member State AND departing to a Schengen Member State

TIRULES/R32
Transit Without Visa (TWOV): Passing through an international
transit area of the airport in order to board a connecting (or
to proceed by the same) flight, without entering the country
(i.e. clearing immigration).
Unless stated otherwise, passengers wishing to TWOV must:
- be en-route to a third country (e.g. itinerary TYO-LON-TYO
is not considered TWOV);
- prove that they will continue their journey within the
prescribed period (e.g. hold onward tickets);

- have documents required for entry into the country of
destination and for transit through countries en-route;

- remain in the transit area (airside).

TWOV is not intended for those holding stand-by tickets, e.g.
airline staff or other passengers travelling on industry
discount.

If airline staff would check their computer or latest TIM manual for visa requirements.
This is what the Airline staff would see.
Please enter your details, such as Nationality
Please print and bring it with you.

A few links to the same Database, always the same information back
because it comes from IATA TIMATIC

http://www.gulfair.com/English/info/pre ... ation.aspx
and
http://www.delta.com/planning_reservati ... formation/
and
http://www.skyteam.com/en/your-trip/Ser ... nd-Health/
and
http://www.klm.com/travel/sg_en/prepare ... saform.htm
and
http://www.staralliance.com/en/services ... nd-health/
and
http://www.pro-linkglobal.com/timatic/w ... mainv.html
and
http://www.iatatravelcentre.com/travelinformation.php# (very bad interface, but more options)

===================================
Background on airline database

What is TimaticWeb?
TimaticWeb is a web-based service used to determine traveler border
control requirements. The service is based on Timatic and is used by the
entire aviation industry

IATA Timatic is the industry standard used by airlines and travel
agents to be compliant with border control rules and regulations.
Timatic delivers personalized information based on the passengers
destination, transit points, nationality, travel document, residence
country etc.

The Timatic Quick Reference Guide will assist you to make the correct
request for the specific information of every type of passenger.
Timatic can be used to provide passengers with this critical
information as part of the booking process, as well as during check-in

to ensure travelers have the correct travel documentation.
Some Airlines provide web-access to the Database, Its always the same
information because it comes from Industry IATA database called TIMATIC

http://www.iata.org/ps/publications/Pages/tim.aspx
http://www.iatatravelcentre.com/travelinformation.php#
http://www.timaticweb.com/