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Your wife rights in the UK are derived from your rights as an EU national. To be eligible for a EEA Family Permit (for 6 months), your wife needs to travel with you or to join you in the UK. For the first 90 days, there are no restrictions on what you do. After that, you need to exercise treaty rights in the UK. This can be in the form of a worker, self employed, self sufficient, job seeker or student.miko77 wrote: my wife and I met in the UK. I am German, she is from Venezuela. We now live in Germany, she still has a UK work permit that expires Feb 15, 2012.
She has been offered a three month contract job Jan-Mar 2012 in the UK. She would commute to the UK by plane for the work week Mon-Fri and stay the weekends with me in Germany.
If we would be living in the UK, I understand she would be able to get a work permit because she is married to me, an EEA citizen. But we are currently living in Germany. Can she still get that permit?
Or can we do it any other way? Would it be difficult for the company to sponsor her a permit for that time?
We could even think about renting a small place somewhere in the UK, that she and I can use as a second home. Maybe that way we would have a UK address and she could get that work permit? Would that work?
Where do you see this quote?miko77 wrote:How do you define "living in the UK" in that context?
See Residence: http://eumovement.wordpress.com/2007/06 ... -question/We will refuse your application if:
- the EEA national does not have a right of residence in the UK
This puts theoretical rights in context. Can you now imagine that you are not comfortable speaking one of the dialects of the UK? How does one express one's rights then?Directive/2004/38/EC wrote:You have an interesting situation. A problem of fun and quality!
Very approximately the rules are as follows:
(1) EU citizen does not need to do anything particular in the first 3m to remain resident
(2) After 3 months the EU citizen has to work or be "self sufficient" or otherwise exercise treaty rights to remain resident
(3) As long as the EU is resident, the spouse can work
(4) Eu citizen will loose residence if they leave the UK permanently, OR do not meet the requirements of (1) or (2) OR if they leave the UK for more than 6 months per year
So lets consider a hypothetical solution.
(A) your wife gets an EEA Family Permit, as proof of her right to enter the UK on the basis of free movement law
(B) you fly with your wife to the UK (to enter together) at the start of her job, and can then immediately fly back to Germany
(C) she works for three months
(D) you also have a flight from Germany to London for the end of her job, which you use to pick her up
(E) she comes back every weekend to Germany
In theory this may be a decent solution. You do not have to be doing anything in the first 3 months (1). Your wife can work. You have not permanently left the UK (you have your return flight booked!).
I believe, but can not guarantee, that this falls within the rules. But doing it in reality might be difficult, especially if she comes back to Germany every weekend.
Why?
Well each Friday and Monday she will encounter UKBA immigration officers at the airport. They will likely ask her where you are. They may or may not fully and deeply understand the laws governing free movement in the EU. For the first 3 weeks she may encounter those who fully and completely understand free movement laws and it will go flawlessly.
Eventually she will definitely encounter a UKBA employee who either does not understand the law or who has a very different interpretation. They will give you wife a hard time and claim that since you are not in the UK, that she does not have a right to be there. Or even that she is illegally living and working in the UK.
She should at that point ask for a senior immigration officer to join the conversation. And hopefully that will clear it up. BUT you can easily imagine a situation where she is detained or they tell her that they will refuse her entry the following Monday or they detain her for multiple days. She would have to understand EU free movement rules very well to feel comfortable in the face of dealing with a team of convinced UKBA employees.
If she remained in the UK for the 3 months, then she will most likely have no contact with UKBA.
Well, Venezuelans require a visa to visit the UK. If she travel alone, she will need some sort of permit after her current visa expire. If travelling with you without a permit, you might need to convince the airline that she is allowed to travel as they are not all familiar with EEA family members rules. If she plan to travel on a weekly basis, she is bound to run into some difficulties if she doesn't have a valid permit.miko77 wrote:Immigration to the UK:
An "EEA family permit", is absolutely not necessary in our case (and it almost seems like it is not necessary in most, if not all cases.)
True in case her employer is happy for her to work on the contract without showing a valid permit to work in the UK.
Working in the UK:
http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/eucit ... ts-family/ says:
under "Do you need to apply?" (for a residence permit):
"You do not need to obtain documents confirming your right of residence in the UK if you are a family member of an EEA national." Then they go on "may be inconvenienced if you do not obtain this confirmation ... [because] ... you may find it difficult to obtain or change employment." Point taken, but from this follows that she is allowed to work in the UK.
As long as your wife is not and does not want to work, then lack of a EEA FP or a RC should not matter.miko77 wrote:Working in the UK:
http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/eucit ... ts-family/ says:
under "Do you need to apply?" (for a residence permit):
"You do not need to obtain documents confirming your right of residence in the UK if you are a family member of an EEA national." Then they go on "may be inconvenienced if you do not obtain this confirmation ... [because] ... you may find it difficult to obtain or change employment." Point taken, but from this follows that she is allowed to work in the UK.
Jambo wrote: EEA Family Permit is free - why not apply for it?
The OP lives in Germany so might not be too difficult for him to attend one of three centres in the country.dilmundesert wrote:Jambo wrote: EEA Family Permit is free - why not apply for it?
well, its not exactly free is it Jambo- you are required to make your way to Germany is it Dusseldorf !!, or to a Mobile biometric clinic appointments in Amsterdam !!
Each applicants must pay a service fee of €147.56 !!
... so a family will add up for travel costs, and 'other' fees.
What happened to the over the counter, easy-peasy option at any consulate or embassy ??
The consulate only take appointments and refer all 'visa' cases to the on-line application.Jambo wrote:The OP lives in Germany so might not be too difficult for him to attend one of three centres in the country.dilmundesert wrote:Jambo wrote: EEA Family Permit is free - why not apply for it?
well, its not exactly free is it Jambo- you are required to make your way to Germany is it Dusseldorf !!, or to a Mobile biometric clinic appointments in Amsterdam !!
Each applicants must pay a service fee of €147.56 !!
... so a family will add up for travel costs, and 'other' fees.
What happened to the over the counter, easy-peasy option at any consulate or embassy ??
Did you try to talk to the consulate about the biometrics? This is not required under EEA regulations and in fact, unlike other immigration categories, not required for applications within the UK. Unfortunately, it is part of the visa process so challenging it might require time and maybe taking UKBA to court.
True.it's intrusive, information gathering,
Fair enough in concept, not fair in reality, therefore still inexcusable. After all- it's my information they're playing with! It's my time and it's my additional cost which I have to fork out, because they want to.....lets get it right....SUBCONTRACT their financial (and moral) responsibilities out?Jambo wrote:I don't think the intention is to keep people away. Like other sectors, the main reason for the FCO to outsource the visa process is to cut cost. Also decisions are not taken in the consulate any more but in region centres to be more efficient.
You need to appreciate that EEA FP are a small fraction of visa applications so suffers from a "one form fit all" approach. Also I guess the consulate in the Netherlands doesn't deal with many visa applications as Dutch nationals don't need one.
Did you try to fill in the form, book a biometrics in Germany and then ask the consulate for a decision to be made without the biometrics? No idea if this work though.
BUT I do see the logic in reducing foot traffic to the embassies and consulates- makes perfect sense... hey I'm not anti- government- just a normal regular citizen...!dilmundesert wrote:Fair enough in concept, not fair in reality, therefore still inexcusable. After all- it's my information they're playing with! It's my time and it's my additional cost which I have to fork out, because they want to.....lets get it right....SUBCONTRACT their financial (and moral) responsibilities out?Jambo wrote:I don't think the intention is to keep people away. Like other sectors, the main reason for the FCO to outsource the visa process is to cut cost. Also decisions are not taken in the consulate any more but in region centres to be more efficient.
You need to appreciate that EEA FP are a small fraction of visa applications so suffers from a "one form fit all" approach. Also I guess the consulate in the Netherlands doesn't deal with many visa applications as Dutch nationals don't need one.
Did you try to fill in the form, book a biometrics in Germany and then ask the consulate for a decision to be made without the biometrics? No idea if this work though.
The point too is: if its such a small and benign process then whats the big deal one of the admin officers at the embassy spends an extra 15 minutes every couple of months processing a Family Permit. I agree- how many of these things are there??
Yes filled the form in, then stopped at the booking part because I have more important things to do with 500 euro! especially since 6 months down the track they may try and do it all over again if I need to extend it.
Exactly which consulate should I ask to skip the biometrics?- Amsterdam? So I chase that down, then depending on their response run back to the subcontractors and try and convince them to (not) part with 'their' money,... I mean, to top it all off, one still has to get a foot in the door at the embassy- how do I do that? make an appointment and lie about the reason I need to speak to them, because its clearly stated "we do not deal with visa enquiries/applications".
So if as a UK citizen I'm frozen out at the 1st port of call, what kind of mission must I be on to see this damn charade through to it's inevitable conclusion?
or just not go at allJambo wrote:Another option you can consider is driving down to Calais and seek admittance at the port. Several members have done that successfully. As long you know the relevant regulations and provide the necessary documentation and have a bit of patience, your partner will be granted entry.