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http://eudo-citizenship.eu/docs/Dereci% ... omment.pdfThe Court in Dereci also does not appear to distinguish between categories of familial relationship in applying the test of ‘genuine enjoyment’. Whereas the decision in McCarthy may have suggested
that the spousal relationship by its nature will fail where the dependency relationship of a parent and child (Ruiz Zambrano) will succeed, such distinction gains little substantiation in the joint cases of Dereci and others
The sole basis for the judgment of Zambrano was, whether the child would be forced to leave the Union and not the country per se. No more no less. That is all that had to be considered. THey did not look into other things.mauritania wrote:Sorry, wrote the last post in a temper lol.
I meant how can we get money for flights to travel back and forth to Spain for the kids to see there father, (also my partner).
I cannot work at the moment due to complications in pregnancy and our first child is only 9months old.
Just received the letter this morning so still reeling from it but basically their decision is that he does not fall under the Zambrano ruling as he holds long term residency in Spain and this means that our daughter would not have to leave the union if she wants to see her father. I find it amazing that they can base a judgement on this, they really don't think about each case individually.
The judgment is available on the net. Point out the precise words in the judgment that support your very wide interpretation please.adlexy wrote:As is usual in these type of scenario, they make it unnecessarily ambiguous.
I thought the essence of the Zambrano ruling is that ultimately, the family stays together, especially where the child want to stay or deemed to want to stay by the parent? So what is the point they are trying to make? That the father travels from Spain to see the child in Ireland? Some of these guys are wet behind the ears! I guess they would prefer to send all of you to Spain instead of you staying in Ireland.
I will suggest you take it up with them - If your child is Irish, that child is entitled to stay in Ireland with both parents.
All the best
Ah ha. Your an Irish Citizen.mauritania wrote:Oh yes we will be taking it up. I am an Irish Citizen, my child is an Irish Citizen.
Adlexy I took the same from the ruling as you. Both me and my father took from the letter that they would rather us all in Spain too.
Can you imagine even trying to get him a visitor visa considering he has over stayed this one and has now been refused residency.
Take time out and read Dereci. Both McCarthy June 2011 (similar law, slightly different on the facts) and Dereci Novemberish 2011 have shown have limited Zambrano is.mauritania wrote:Thanks IQU, we have a solicitor through the Immigrant Council since June this year. They are a fantastic organization and I strongly urge anyone with immigration issues to contact them.
At the moment our case is being forwarded to council for consideration. We also have a couple of more options which include applying on humanitarian grounds, My partner leaving for Spain and applying from there for a D-reside. There is also the option of me leaving for Spain with our baby and look for work there but this is not really a viable option for us as I am pregnant at the moment and this would be too much stress, also my partner having to return to Spain is ultimately our last resort.
Have many more people received responses from INIS regarding their applications? I asked some TD's to contact on our behalf and within two weeks they had come to their decision. Unfortunately not the decision we were hoping for but not altogether un-expected. You will have to excuse my previous posts, as you can imagine I wrote them in shock and despair.
The minister refers in his ruling to the Dereci judgement, this I fail to understand. The only relating factor between our cases is that we had all applied under Zambrano.
You are going to have to try and appeal, under Irish law, to the Minister. State your case and explain why the father needs to be in Ireland.mauritania wrote:You are correct, he is only a resident of Spain. He holds no citizenship in any EU countries. I can not at the present time go and live in Spain. Without going into too much detail, I suffered a lot of post birth complications with my daughter and some of which I still suffer with today. We currently live with my parents who support us a lot. If I moved to Spain, we would have no family support and although I speak reasonably well Spanish, I wouldn't be to competent with the medical lingo and being pregnant again and needing to have another operation, this would be a major cause of stress to me.
Also to go without any guarantee of jobs would not be fair on our daughter. At least here I know I have the money to feed, clothe and provide for all her needs. Thanks for your reply.
Has your partner considered applying for Spanish Citizenship?mauritania wrote:Ok back again, my partner has permanent residency in Spain, he has been there over 10 years.
The exercising treaty rights has me quite confused. By just going to Spain is that exercising or would I need to be there for any amount of time? At the moment, it's really out of the question but no harm in asking.
After Fatty Patty's response I had a quick read of Dereci, she made a valid point. I had limited knowledge of Dereci beforehand but I can understand the points being made.
In your opinion, under which law should we be applying? And realistically what are our chances?