EEA3 refused (in the space of 2 weeks!) What now?

[Greenie]

Confused - what's happened to the last 3 or 4 posts on this thread?

[dormice]

Yep, was wondering the same; my last post has disappeared too... odd!

[dormice]

I had saved my previous -now desaparecido- post in Word so I'm copying it below:

***

I take your points.

As I said before, I will continue working on the EEA3 route. However, I would like to understand how what Greenie and Jambo suggest.

Greenie said I can apply for ILR from outside the UK. Yes, I had considered mentioning that when I was writing my previous post but then I forgot! Nonetheless, what I wanted to say was that this is not an easy option, as it would require the French wife to ‘artificially’ leave the UK, spend some time abroad for the sole purpose of accessing an application form. I would imagine, but please correct me if I’m wrong, that the correct form for this would be VAF4A.

Greenie also says that I can apply in-country. I looked on the UKBA website and for in-country application they send one to form FLR(M); this form is explicitly out of reach for EEA citizens; it says so clearly on page 2 of the relevant guidance booklet. Could it be that I’m looking at the wrong form?


***

[Jambo]

Will try to reconstruct my reply too.

Greenie also says that I can apply in-country. I looked on the UKBA website and for in-country application they send one to form FLR(M); this form is explicitly out of reach for EEA citizens; it says so clearly on page 2 of the relevant guidance booklet. Could it be that I’m looking at the wrong form?

Where does it say so? On page 2 of

If you are a national of a country from outside the
European Economic Area (EEA) and your partner
is an EEA national exercising Treaty Rights in the
UK, you should not be applying on form FLR(M).
As a family member of an EEA national, you
should apply for a residence card or permanent
residence under EEA Regulations on form EEA2
or EEA4 depending on your circumstances - see
our website.

This is not your case. This is about non-EEA married to EEA national. You are a EEA national.

According to Greenie, you can't apply for FLR(M) in country because you don't meet the rules but in any case - the guide doesn't exclude EEA national. Just non-EEA married to EEA national.

[Greenie]

OK- this is the basis gist of what I said in my magical disappearing post...

Doormice you don't qualify immediately for Indefinite Leave on the basis of your relationship. To qualify for Indefinite Leave to Remain you would need to have complete the two year probationary period under the immigration rules, and after this apply for ILR. To apply for indefinite leave to enter (from outside the UK), you need to have been married/in a relationship for 4 years and living with your husband outside the UK for that period, so you don't qualify for ILE either.

Whilst the FLR(M) form does say it is not to be used for family members of EEA nationals - what this means is that it is not to be used for applications under the EEA regulations. An EEA national who is married to a person who is settled/British) (and indeed a non-EEA family member of an EEA national who has permanent residence in the UK) could apply on FLR(M) if she wished to apply under the immigration rules. However, in your case you would not qualify for further leave to remain under para 284 of the Immigration Rules because you don't have:

limited leave to enter or remain in the United Kingdom which was given in accordance with any of the provisions of these Rules, other than where as a result of that leave he would not have been in the United Kingdom beyond 6 months from the date on which he was admitted to the United Kingdom on this occasion in accordance with these Rules

You would therefore, if you wished to go down this route, have to apply for a visa from outside the UK, and you would have to complete two years under this category before you could apply for ILR.

Therefore, as previously suggested, it is better for you to pursue your EEA application and argue that your EHICs are sufficient.

[EUsmileWEallsmile]

If you read section 4.14 of chapter 4 on page 10 it has a section that explains this procedure that my friend Greenie has kindly written out in some detail.

http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/sitec ... dlaw/ecis/

There is nothing to stop a government changing the immigration or naturalisation laws in the future.

[Greenie]

I just want to correct my advise above, although I think it is a moot point in this case but just in the event that someone else in a similar situation reads this thread - I do believe it may be possible for an EEA national to switch from within the UK using form FLR(M) as EEA nationals do not require leave to enter and indeed the guidance EUsmiles has posted would suggest that EU nationals who do apply using form FLR(M) are issued an EEA residence card anyway. Nevertheless, in this case given the length of time the OP has been in the UK I think pursuing the EEA3 application is the best course of action.

[EUsmileWEallsmile]

[quote="Greenie"]I just want to correct my advise above, although I think it is a moot point in this case but just in the event that someone else in a similar situation reads this thread - I do believe it may be possible for an EEA national to switch from within the UK using form FLR(M) as EEA nationals do not require leave to enter and indeed the guidance EUsmiles has posted would suggest that EU nationals who do apply using form FLR(M) are issued an EEA residence card anyway. Nevertheless, in this case given the length of time the OP has been in the UK I think pursuing the EEA3 application is the best course of action.[/quote]

Greenie, thanks for acknowledging your own error, moot point or no.

I hope the OP was not inconvenienced in any way by the posts where I suggested that she might have been able to rely on her British husband to advance her case.

It is a shame that people may discover their rights several years after residing in an EU country. One may enter as a student on a temporary basis with an EHIC, only for life to bring its inevitable changes...

[dormice]

I wasn't inconvenienced by the 'British husband' discussion, although I'm not sure I fully understand it yet!

In any case, just to update those who have followed this discussion, I have re-sent my application for EEA; I have included all of the documents requested plus a cover letter; the parcel is now much lighter and everything has been very clearly labelled.

I shall post here again if and when I have new information.

[Plum70]

I wasn't inconvenienced by the 'British husband' discussion, although I'm not sure I fully understand it yet!

In any case, just to update those who have followed this discussion, I have re-sent my application for EEA; I have included all of the documents requested plus a cover letter; the parcel is now much lighter and everything has been very clearly labelled.

I shall post here again if and when I have new information.

Fingers and toes crossed for you; not that it will be refused but that it is processed speedily.

[dormice]

I have returned from holiday and have received an amazing Christmas present.... my PR card!

Someone finally saw sense and my application has gone through at last!

I'm very very happy and I'm already thinking about the next step (AN form); my head is full of questions, so brace yourselves

[nonspecifics]

Congratulations! Thank you for sharing your good news.

Can you reply to my question on this post please, regarding getting PR using Ehic cards? thanks.

http://www.immigrationboards.com/viewtopic.php?t=89595

[dormice]

Ok, me again.

I'm not sure if I should post this in this thread or whether I should open another one in the Citizenship section. I hope it is ok if I simply continue on the same thread.

I am now 'studying' Form An, to apply for Naturalisation. My PR card has arrived (has a December 2011 date), and I would like to apply on form AN on the basis of marriage to a British citizen.

This makes me a EEA national, free of immigration restrictions (as per PR card), and married to a British citizen.

So my question is, should I or should I not fill section 2.4 'EEA nationals exercising Treaty Rights?'.

My personal interpretation, reading the guidance booklet, is that I should not (because the evidence of exercising Treaty rights for 5 years is only mentioned there for applications made in the basis of residence in the UK, not for applications made on the basis of marriage).

So my interpretation would be that my being EEA no longer counts: now that I have PR I can apply on the basis of marriage as, say, a US woman married to a Brit would (therefore there is no question of proving 'treaty rights', I just have to prove that: 1) I was here 3 years; 2) I have PR; 3) I am legally married to a Brit.

As I said, just my interpretation; would be greatly appreciated if you could share your wisdom on the issue

[Jambo]

Ok, me again.

I'm not sure if I should post this in this thread or whether I should open another one in the Citizenship section. I hope it is ok if I simply continue on the same thread.

I am now 'studying' Form An, to apply for Naturalisation. My PR card has arrived (has a December 2011 date), and I would like to apply on form AN on the basis of marriage to a British citizen.

This makes me a EEA national, free of immigration restrictions (as per PR card), and married to a British citizen.

So my question is, should I or should I not fill section 2.4 'EEA nationals exercising Treaty Rights?'.

My personal interpretation, reading the guidance booklet, is that I should not (because the evidence of exercising Treaty rights for 5 years is only mentioned there for applications made in the basis of residence in the UK, not for applications made on the basis of marriage).

So my interpretation would be that my being EEA no longer counts: now that I have PR I can apply on the basis of marriage as, say, a US woman married to a Brit would (therefore there is no question of proving 'treaty rights', I just have to prove that: 1) I was here 3 years; 2) I have PR; 3) I am legally married to a Brit.

As I said, just my interpretation; would be greatly appreciated if you could share your wisdom on the issue

Your interpretation is correct.
2.4 is needed to prove PR. It is not needed if you have a PR confirmation. as you rightly said, being married to a Brit means that your residential period required is 3 year.

[Plum70]

I have returned from holiday and have received an amazing Christmas present.... my PR card!

Someone finally saw sense and my application has gone through at last!

I'm very very happy and I'm already thinking about the next step (AN form); my head is full of questions, so brace yourselves

Hip! Hip!! Had no doubts it would come through. Now, get in there with your BC application and see you at the polling station.

[dormice]

Your interpretation is correct.
2.4 is needed to prove PR. It is not needed if you have a PR confirmation. as you rightly said, being married to a Brit means that your residential period required is 3 year.

Forgive me for being thick but this is an expensive application s I better get it 100% right:

Section 2.4 : I will leave blank / ignore it completely.

Section 2.1 (residence requirements): I put the dates of my absences from the UK for the past 3 years.

Hoping the above is correct... is that all? OR do I have to include my payslips etc for the past 3 years? In other words, what 'proof' of me being here do they need?


PS Plum, I can't wait for the day I can vote in this country; I will feel proud and finally 'at home'!

[dormice]

Me again, for got to ask another thing!


I took the Life in the UK test in December 2008, is it still valid?

I read in this website that it is but my case is pretty extreme (over 3 years old!) so it would be nice to have confirmation.

I have written to UKBA with this very question but so far they haven’t bothered to reply at all!

[Jambo]

Section 2.4 : I will leave blank / ignore it completely.

Section 2.1 (residence requirements): I put the dates of my absences from the UK for the past 3 years.

Hoping the above is correct... is that all? OR do I have to include my payslips etc for the past 3 years? In other words, what 'proof' of me being here do they need?

The above is correct.

As your passport is not stamped, you will need to provide proof of residence. P60s/employer's letter/payslips for the 3 years would be enough (keep it simple. No need to provide evidence for every day in the 3 years. Just as reference, for non-EU applications, the stamps in the passport are good enough to show residence).

[Plum70]

As your passport is not stamped, you will need to provide proof of residence. P60s/employer's letter/payslips for the 3 years would be enough (keep it simple. No need to provide evidence for every day in the 3 years. Just as reference, for non-EU applications, the stamps in the passport are good enough to show residence).

Does it matter if dormice's passport isn't stamped? The RC and PR card (affixed in the blue card) should suffice as proof of residency (plus a couple of P60s maybe).

[EUsmileWEallsmile]

I am overjoyed that you've got PR!!!!

You've already described how you made your original application, did you do anything differently this time?

Congrats again!

[dormice]

Eu smiles,

I didn’t do anything very different, just added a covering letter, deducted A LOT of the papers I had sent the first time, and generally made the whole package much lighter and with easy-to-find, VERY well-labelled documents.. .. the first time I tried I sent them half my filing cabinet!

I am now of the opinion that the first time around the caseworkers simply had so much stuff/papers under their eyes that they simply missed/not saw the EHIC card. So my lesson learned is to keep it very very simple, to include all that is necessary but nothing more.

Regarding the proof of residence:

I can see what Plum means: I had to prove that I was here for 5 years to get PR, so I would have thought that was my proof of residence for the period up to the date of application for PR (November 2011), then I’d add payslips for the period November 2011 to the date of submission of the form AN.

In any case, since I started my job in April 2009, I am just short of 3 years’ payslips…

….should I wait until April and maybe re-take the Life in the UK test in the meantime? (I freeze at the though!)

[Jambo]

I'm in total agreement with plum. I thought my post was clear but I guess it wasn't. A PR and 1-2 P60 would do the job. You don't really need to provide evidence from your PR date until the application and you definitely don't need to wait until April. Apply tomorrow if you wish.

[dormice]

Thanks, this reassures me no end.

What about my 'ancient' Life in the UK pass test? Will it do?

[Jambo]

Thanks, this reassures me no end.

What about my 'ancient' Life in the UK pass test? Will it do?

It will as long as you still have the pass certificate. There is no time limit for the test.

[dormice]

Absolutely; I've guarded my pass certificate like a hawk