DOJ refuse visas to orphaned nieces of Irish Citizens,

[acme4242]

https://www.facebook.com/familyforxmas

http://www.westernpeople.ie/news/ojkfmhauey/

http://www.mayonews.ie/index.php?option ... &Itemid=46


Shame on the Dept of Justice and Equality and Tom Russell
hope their conscience stings this Christmas.

Embassy of Ireland, Ankara ankaraembassy@dfa.ie
His Excellency Tom Russell
First Secretary Padraig MacCoscair
Second Secretary Niamh Neylon

Tel +90-312-459 1000
Fax:+90-312-459 1022

A couple began a hunger strike yesterday (Monday) morning outside An Taoiseach Enda Kenny’s Castlebar office in a desperate bid to get Irish visas for their adopted children.
Anne Dogan (nee Brennan), a native of Doocastle, Charlestown, and her husband, Fiko, adopted two girls, who are Fiko’s neices, almost 18 months ago, after the children’s mother had died. However, they were informed recently that because the Turkish adoption procedure has not been recognised in the State since 2000, the Department of Justice is unwilling to grant the girls Irish visas.

Ms Dogan works as a nurse in Sligo, where she now lives with her husband. She has issued an impassioned plea calling on the Taoiseach to give her nieces, Fatma (10) and Yagmur (7), the visas they need to allow them leave the Turkish orphanage where they have lived for two years and come to Ireland.

The father also died tragically,

Ann told the Western People that her husband’s two nieces, Fatma, aged 10 and Yagmur, aged seven, were orphaned in Turkey last year. They were the children of Fikret's brother who died tragically. They adopted the children in Turkey, obtained their passports and applied for visas to bring them to Ireland. However, four weeks ago, they were turned down for the visas by the Irish Embassy. Ann said they had asked local Fine Gael Minister of State in Sligo-North Leitrim, John Perry for help but he was unable to assist. They then approached the Taoiseach, who told them he would do what he could, but the visas were later refused.

[/quote]

[walrusgumble]

They only have themselves to blame

"the Turkish adoption procedure has not been recognised in the State since 2000, the Department of Justice is unwilling to grant the girls Irish visas. "

Had they done their research they would have know that they have no entitlements .

Maybe they should have spoken to immigration first before stomping off on the basis of their incorrect interpretation of the laws.

Sad enough story though.

[acme4242]

If the adoption is not recognised, these kids are still blood, nieces if nothing else

If they had been nieces of EU citizens, would Tom Russell and
the Dept of Justice been forced to issue the visas ?
Under EU directive 2004/38/EC and Irish SI 656 of 2006 , the answer is yes.
Under Irish Law SI 656 of 2006, they would be classed "permitted family members"

But because they are Irish family, they have no entitlements.
Shame on DOJ and the Irish Embassy

[walrusgumble]

If the adoption is not recognised, these kids are still blood, nieces if nothing else

If they had been nieces of EU citizens, would Tom Russell and
the Dept of Justice been forced to issue the visas ?
Under EU directive 2004/38/EC and Irish SI 656 of 2006 , the answer is yes.
Under Irish Law SI 656 of 2006, they would be classed "permitted family members"

But because they are Irish family, they have no entitlements.
Shame on DOJ and the Irish Embassy

They are, but family reunification , whether under EU law or refugee law, on the basis of bringing family members other than your own children, and parents and spouse is NOT automatic.

If the nieces were EU citizens. That depends, would they comply with Article 3.2 of Directive 2004/38 EC. There are some very subtle difference between Article 2 families and Article 3.2 families. So it is possible that they would not be forced!

Your example is entirely moot, pointless. They are Not EU so no point comparing. EU law is not open country.

They Irish, so EU law comparison is IRRELEVANT.

Look, its sad, but these people were reckless.

Although probably not the case here, each state needs to be mindful of risks of child kidnapp of children that are not theirs. You can't just simply take your niece etc over here, you need to become their legal guardian etc. That was the hurdle they fell on, not immigration law.

Shame on Ireland? Well let them go to another EU state and see how quick the response they will get, likely a big fat NO. Again, the first hurdle was family law not immgiration

[acme4242]

look up "permitted family members" in SI 656 of 2006

The reason for comparison is to highlight the unjust
and morally bankrupt behaviour of the DOJ.
hope their conscience stings this Christmas.

Look, many children are rared by family members who
are not parents, for many reasons, such as Grandparents
and in this case it would be uncle and aunts,

There is no prerequisite of adoption, only that the guardians
have permission from the parents, or in this case the orphanage.
The adoption process could continue in the background,
its not an immediate issue.

That is what is so wrong in this case.
Those involved in the Irish Embassy and DOJ should feel shame.

Now the Irish Embassy and DOJ are saying, Irish citizens wishing to
get a visa for their nieces, must first formally adopt them.
This is nonsense.

[walrusgumble]

look up "permitted family members" in SI 656 of 2006

The reason for comparison is to highlight the unjust
and morally bankrupt behaviour of the DOJ.
hope their conscience stings this Christmas.

Look, many children are rared by family members who
are not parents, for many reasons, such as Grandparents
and in this case it would be uncle and aunts,

There is no prerequisite of adoption, only that the guardians
have permission from the parents, or in this case the orphanage.
The adoption process could continue in the background,
its not an immediate issue.

That is what is so wrong in this case.
Those involved in the Irish Embassy and DOJ should feel shame.

Now the Irish Embassy and DOJ are saying, Irish citizens wishing to
get a visa for their nieces, must first formally adopt them.
This is nonsense.

Go and learn what it takes to be a permitted member of family. It takes more than just being a member of the family.

Granted, it may well be the case that the family here would still comply with Article 3.2 .

The issue is that their are minors here, from another country. Adoption laws ARE relevant. That is the first stumbling block. If they had that sorted, they would have a case, so it makes your point a bit moot. If you really have to ask why, I would suggest sticking to something more simplier.

[acme4242]

we know your an ex tea boy from the DOJ
but since when on this earth did you need to adopt
your own family members.

If there was no blood relation, and they just wanted to be
good and kind, I agree an adoption process must be followed.

That this uncle and aunt mentioned that they would like to
adopt the children should not be used as an excuse to fob them off
and do nothing, used by the Irish Embassy and DOJ.
Its shows what bad minded bunch the DOJ really are.
and lets not forget the politicians who seem too scared
to root them out of the dept like yourself.

To add irony, they now want to be elected to Human Rights Council
http://www.rte.ie/news/2012/0101/humanrights.html

Enda Kenny correctly said that the Catholic Church
has failed in their duty to the welfare and care of children, putting their
own regime, some evil minded members and authority first.
But when Enda is faced with the issue of welfare and care of children he
turns his back to support the bad minded bunch in the DOJ.

Shame on all public servants involved.

[walrusgumble]

we know your an ex tea boy from the DOJ
but since when on this earth did you need to adopt
your own family members.

If there was no blood relation, and they just wanted to be
good and kind, I agree an adoption process must be followed.

That this uncle and aunt mentioned that they would like to
adopt the children should not be used as an excuse to fob them off
and do nothing, used by the Irish Embassy and DOJ.
Its shows what bad minded bunch the DOJ really are.
and lets not forget the politicians who seem too scared
to root them out of the dept like yourself.

To add irony, they now want to be elected to Human Rights Council
http://www.rte.ie/news/2012/0101/humanrights.html

Enda Kenny correctly said that the Catholic Church
has failed in their duty to the welfare and care of children, putting their
own regime, some evil minded members and authority first.
But when Enda is faced with the issue of welfare and care of children he
turns his back to support the bad minded bunch in the DOJ.

Shame on all public servants involved.

Insult all you like. I am correct on this issue. You do not have a leg to stand on.

Tea boy? I don't think so. I could not stop laughing when you said that. Insulting, when that is all you have in your arsenal is always shows how much you are loosing the argument. Now feck off and get me my chips and burgers (I know it is probably wrong but two can play at that game)

As for your question on why adoption etc? Aunts and uncles have now Constitutional or other legal right to the children. I told you, if you don't understand it, stick to something more simpler.

There is also the issue of floodgate concerns in similar cases (eg Chinese coming over because they are "neglected" or "unwanted"). A State wants true proof that they really are dependent on the people in Ireland. If there really was no family in Turkey (maybe there is not) then adopt the children as their own. Then you have full legal rights etc over them.

.

You are one of the most ridiculous naive people ever to grace this website. The Actual current members of that talk shop council, have had a worse current and past human rights record than Ireland.

There is no issue of Human Rights in this case. There is no Human Rights rule that says these children should be allowed in.

As for the Enda quote, try harder. He refers to IRISH CITIZEN CHILDREN . These children you refer to are TURKISH. Ireland owes no duty to the children that you refer to. It's Turkey's problem, not Ireland's.

Secondly, Enda is all talk about the Church. Looking forward to hearing the much worse news of STATE abuse of children in care. I don't know why Ireland is bothering to join such a useless and spineless body such as the Human Rights Council. Prestige? Waste of time