timing surinder singh

[gb]

Not sure what, if any, the restrictions are on the singh-route sequence of events ... for example:

I am in the UK now after having worked in Holland and fulfilled the requirements of exercising treaty rights (so that my non-eu spouse and children qualify to join me in the UK).

They are all still in Holland now and wanting to stay there because one is at university there and can't interrupt studies.

If I am in the UK working as a freelancer, do they HAVE to join me immediately?
,or can they join me when its more convenient for us all?

there are reasons they would like to stay for example as mentioned, my one child is at university so he cannot join us until the end of year. Best also not to try because the EEA2 could take 6 months....so if he wanted to go back to university in Holland next year then we have a problem too .....we would have to try and get the EEA2 processed in the long 2-month summer break before the September start....but that only gives us 2 months, then the passport is needed again to go back to university in Holland....how are we going to get that right or do we ask UKBA for that passport back before he needs to return?

So to summarise, I would like to start working in the UK now (contract work), then presumably my family can follow at any time? a year from now? 2 years from now? (what would be considered a reasonable time for them to follow me once I am working in the UK for singh to still apply?) .

[Rolfus]

I think you should be careful about this. SS rights exist only to remove impediments from free movement. The longer between when you move and when your family moves the harder it is to show that they need to move or your movement will be impeded.
But it doesn't have to be the same day! Recent judicial comment has said that it would be normal for a worker to move at the time he changes job, and the family to move at the start of the academic year, for example.
But I wouldn't leave it longer than that.
One option might be for your family to be formally resident in both the UK and Holland for a period. Apply for the EEA2 and ask them to return the passport immediately. I think other strands discuss how well that works in practice.

[gb]

Thanks, since there doesn't seem to be any threat of s.singh being overridden by any new law and because eu takes precedence over uk law as far as freedom of movement is concerned, its probably best to have our home in holland and contract work in the uk.
Then when we are all ready, we move (exercising singh).
sound ok.

how would the suggestion of living in 2 countries at once work and is it legal? 6 months in holland, 6 months in uk--repeat-- perhaps for another year?

[Rolfus]

There are two general points to remember. First, it is always easier to fit in with the administrative arrangements that exist than it is to prove you have EEA rights. Secondly, countries' legal systems haven't caught up with the fact that it is very usual in the low-cost flight age for people to live in multiple countries simultaneously, have families spread across the world etc.

An interesting case that discusses some of the problems is EN (Continuity of residence – family member) Nigeria [2011] UKUT 55 (IAC).

There are different definitions of residence for different purposes. In general it is very easy to become resident for the purposes of being taxed, very difficult to become resident to qualify for benefits, health care etc.

Keeping your home in Holland and doing contract work in the UK looks sensible. But HMRC will consider you to be tax resident as soon as you earn money in the UK. You will need to understand the double taxation treaty. If you go back to Holland every week you may be classed as a frontier worker which attracts special rules. More probably you will de facto be resident in two countries. I suggest you make sure you keep records that show you are continuing to reside in Holland as well as the UK. Flight tickets, tax declarations, social security/health insurance payments etc.

If your non-EEA children are under 21 they are family members. If over 21 they have to be dependent. This an extra hassle, so better to move before then.

Plan for how your spouse & children are going to obtain citizenship somewhere in the EEA. Some people living overseas have missed this change in the law http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/briti ... ishfather/

[dilmundesert]

If one child turns 21 in november this year, what is the latest date to be physically in the UK in order to comply with Singh, and in order to apply for the EEA2?

A person is still 21 until their 22nd birthday? Or is it UNDER 21?

If the EEA2 application is submitted before he turns 21/22, or must the dependant arrive in the UK just before he turns 21/22 and then is allowed 6 months to apply for RC?

Hope this question is clear.

If your non-EEA children are under 21 they are family members. If over 21 they have to be dependent. This an extra hassle, so better to move before then.

Plan for how your spouse & children are going to obtain citizenship somewhere in the EEA. Some people living overseas have missed this change in the law http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/briti ... ishfather/

[gb]

I think you should be careful about this. SS rights exist only to remove impediments from free movement. The longer between when you move and when your family moves the harder it is to show that they need to move or your movement will be impeded.
But it doesn't have to be the same day! Recent judicial comment has said that it would be normal for a worker to move at the time he changes job, and the family to move at the start of the academic year, for example.
But I wouldn't leave it longer than that.
One option might be for your family to be formally resident in both the UK and Holland for a period. Apply for the EEA2 and ask them to return the passport immediately. I think other strands discuss how well that works in practice.

I think I need to go in and discuss the timing with someone- would ukba in Croydon be able to help, anyone know where I could make an appointment to discuss the delayed arrival of dependents under singh rule ? (school break in June/July would be best to apply for the EEA2 for them).

[Rolfus]

If you want your family to move in June/July, you could apply for EEA Family Permits for them now. That will take perhaps a month, and the permits are valid for six months so you will be comfortably covered.And it would leave some margin if there is any problem with the permits.

[gb]

If you want your family to move in June/July, you could apply for EEA Family Permits for them now. That will take perhaps a month, and the permits are valid for six months so you will be comfortably covered.And it would leave some margin if there is any problem with the permits.

Yes, now thats a great idea...

...but I'm in the UK now. They are still in Europe (legally with residence for 5 years etc)

Can I apply for a FP from within the UK for family members not yet arrived?
Do they need to be physically here for biometrics etc?
I would need their passports I think (which I can get).

Or did I read somewhere that biometrics for a FP application from within the UK is not required?

Or would I need to return to Europe and travel to the nearest biometric centre with all the family, pay the service fee and related costs and travel back to the UK...costs adding up again.

[Rolfus]

Look at this page http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/eucit ... /applying/
Basically it is your family members who must apply for an EEA FP for themselves in the country where they reside. The application is based on your status, but it is they who apply.
There is quite a strong argument for paying an immigration lawyer (in the UK) to help you get the applications right. But there is also lots of advice on other threads on this site, and it is perfectly possible to do it yourself.

[Obie]

Also see OB (EEA Regulations 2006 - Article 9(2) - Surinder Singh spouse) Morocco [2010] UKUT 420 (IAC).

I believe they will be fine.