EEA FAMILY PERMIT

[clm]

HI,

I'm Irish, living in london 5 years,a fulltime student(getting student loan) and working. I recently married my partner of 2 years in Moldova. And have been preparing to apply for a spouse visa until I read one of your threads saying how much simpler an EEA family permit is. What are the Regulations for this and what does he need to apply in the british embassy in Chisinau, Moldova. He has a bad immigration past, do they look into this?

Thank you so much for your help.

[JAJ]

HI,

I'm Irish, living in london 5 years,a fulltime student(getting student loan) and working. I recently married my partner of 2 years in Moldova. And have been preparing to apply for a spouse visa until I read one of your threads saying how much simpler an EEA family permit is.

For information on either spouse visa or EEA Family Permit: http://www.ukvisas.gov.uk

Do you realise it will take five years for your partner to get permanent residence on an EEA permit, compared to two years on a spouse visa.

Also, do you have any plan to apply for Naturalisation as a British citizen now that you've been in the UK for 5 years?

[clm]

Thank you for your reply, I and my husband plan to move back to Ireland after 5 or 6 years so I dont plan to apply for Naturalisation. Do you think in this case an EEA Family Permit is a better option for us.

Thank you so much for your advice.

[JAJ]

Thank you for your reply, I and my husband plan to move back to Ireland after 5 or 6 years so I dont plan to apply for Naturalisation. Do you think in this case an EEA Family Permit is a better option for us.

If you plan to move back to Ireland in 5-6 years then don't you think it would be a good idea for him to get a British citizen passport of his own as soon as possible? It would avoid the hassles of dealing with the Irish immigration system, and would also make things easier for him to travel elsewhere as a tourist (eg Canada, U.S. etc).

If you do become British yourself then your husband would only need 3 years residence in the UK (with ILR held on day of application), not 5 years with (ILR for at least 12 months).

So the timescale for him to be eligible for citizenship depends on a. whether he gets a spouse visa or EEA permit (which influences time to ILR) and b. whether you naturalise yourself, which affects the residence waiting time.

Applicants for naturalisation who are not married to a British citizen are normally expected to remain resident in the UK after naturalisation. However you are not expected to plan to remain in the UK for the rest of your life and plenty of naturalised British citizens do live outside the UK either temporarily or permanently.

He may lose his Moldova citizenship when he becomes British (depends on Moldova's law) but of course this may not be a problem.

Regarding a spouse visa and his immigration history, others may be able to comment better on that.

[brett107]

I think the question is it is better to apply for an EEA family permit than risking being declined by applying for a spouse visa for which there is more criteria to meet.

[JAJ]

I think the question is it is better to apply for an EEA family permit than risking being declined by applying for a spouse visa for which there is more criteria to meet.

Most genuine spouse visa applications are granted with little formality.

Why even contemplate the delays in permanent residence involved with an EEA Permit unless there's an extremely good reason?

[clm]

Hi there,

I have spoken to a solicitor who has advised us to apply for an EEA Family permit rather than a visa.

He has said the Permit is granted for 6 months and within the first month we should apply to the home office for 5 year residency.

How does the application go? Is it difficult to get residency if he already has a family permit? Am I being naive in thinking this shouldn't be a problem once he is in the country?

Thanks for you advice, it really helps!

[JAJ]

Hi there,

I have spoken to a solicitor who has advised us to apply for an EEA Family permit rather than a visa.

He has said the Permit is granted for 6 months and within the first month we should apply to the home office for 5 year residency.

How does the application go? Is it difficult to get residency if he already has a family permit?

Do you realise that "5 year residency" is not the same as permanent residence?

Why does the solicitor seem to think an EEA Permit is better than a regular spouse visa?

[clm]

Hi there,

The reason he has advised a family permit over a spouse visa is because my husband had a 1 month visa for the UK but left after a few days to go to Ireland where he stayed for three years,(where we met). Also little things like the fact that our accomodation will be my sisters 3 bedroom flat which is council property, she is a tenant though and pays full rent.

I think he felt there is less criteria to meet with the family permit and therefore we can hope for a better outcome.

What is the procedure when presumably he gets the 6 month family permit?, is the application to the home office for residency similar to thevisa/permit application?

Its all so confusing for a busy girl!

Thanks again for your input, it really helps.

[JAJ]

Hi there,

The reason he has advised a family permit over a spouse visa is because my husband had a 1 month visa for the UK but left after a few days to go to Ireland where he stayed for three years,(where we met). Also little things like the fact that our accomodation will be my sisters 3 bedroom flat which is council property, she is a tenant though and pays full rent.

I think he felt there is less criteria to meet with the family permit and therefore we can hope for a better outcome.

When you think of a "better outcome" are you just focused on the immediate issue or are you giving consideration to the whole pathway to permanent residence and British citizenship?

The EEA Permit is easier at the start, but things get harder later on.

You should discuss the options further with your solicitor, but maybe focus more on building a case to obtain a spouse visa on normal grounds rather than going for the immediate "easy solution".

[brett107]

the EEA permit sounds better. I'm in the same position. I don't want to risk being apart from my wife just to save 3 years for waiting in the long run when we will be able to live together away. Its only a issue if you want to go on holiday and getting a visa for a holiday for someone resident in the UK can't be major hassle.

[clm]

Hi Jaj and Brett,

Thanks for the replies, I am of focused on geting my husband here asap so we can finally start our lives together, but I do know that in the long run of course a Spouse visa is a much better idea, I have e-mailed my solicitor to re-asses our case for a spouse visa.

Jaj, In what way can things get difficult later on with the EEA family permit?

Thanks again, its great to be able to get a second opinion for free!!

[JAJ]

Hi Jaj and Brett,

Thanks for the replies, I am of focused on geting my husband here asap so we can finally start our lives together, but I do know that in the long run of course a Spouse visa is a much better idea, I have e-mailed my solicitor to re-asses our case for a spouse visa.

Jaj, In what way can things get difficult later on with the EEA family permit?

The main difficulty is the delay in getting British citizenship. If you plan to move to Ireland in the longer term, it's really worth getting this sorted out as otherwise you will face another immigration nightmare at the time. And meanwhile he will need visas to travel almost anywhere as a tourist.

Other people on EEA family status have got into trouble at permanent resident stage if the Home Office has ruled that the EEA citizen isn't "exercising Treaty Rights" - just living in the UK on its own won't necessarily do.

We have discussed in other threads whether it's possible to come into the UK on an EEA Family Permit and then switch in-country to a spouse visa. Theoretically this should be possible once the 5 year EEA permit is issued. However, technically there is a problem as you need to have "leave to remain" under the Immigration Rules to switch to spouse status. People on EEA status are admitted under a separate set of rules.

Now it's possible that the Home Office would still accept an in-country switch application, or that it might be possible for him to return home and apply for an entry visa there. All I'm trying to say is that the pathway from EEA status to spouse status isn't necessarily straightforward. However, some immigration specialists might have experience of it and may know what the Home Office processing culture is.

Have you any plans to have children born in the UK?

[clm]

Thanks again Jaj for the quick reply.

I spoke to my solicitor today and again he stressed how we should go for the eu family permit. I expressed my concerns about the residency permit and the 7 years waiting for everything to be sorted. I did ask him about having children as I am only 24 now but plan to have children in 5 or 6 years time.

He said as long as I am working and just take maternity leave then I am still excersising my treaty rights and it shouldn't cause a problem.

Why do you ask if I plan to have children?

I didn't know about switching to a spouse visa once he was here, thats something I will look into, thank you.

[JAJ]

Thanks again Jaj for the quick reply.

I spoke to my solicitor today and again he stressed how we should go for the eu family permit. I expressed my concerns about the residency permit and the 7 years waiting for everything to be sorted. I did ask him about having children as I am only 24 now but plan to have children in 5 or 6 years time.

He said as long as I am working and just take maternity leave then I am still excersising my treaty rights and it shouldn't cause a problem.

As long as you stay in the labour force there shouldn't be a problem with getting permanent residence in the end.

But there's still the timing of permanent residence for him : 5 years down the line and he can't even think about British citizenship until then. Is that not a problem for both of you?

Why do you ask if I plan to have children?

You should be aware that children born to Irish citizens living in the UK are automatically British citizens (except for very specific exceptions, such as tourists, diplomats).

However you may encounter problems at the Passport Office as front-line staff don't always understand that it's still quite possible for UK-born children of non-British parents to be British citizens even if the parents are not (ie if the parent is a UK permanent resident). When the time comes you may need to be quite assertive and insist on speaking to a manager or supervisor, if you have problems with the front-line staff (it has happened to others before).

[Marco 72]

Other people on EEA family status have got into trouble at permanent resident stage if the Home Office has ruled that the EEA citizen isn't "exercising Treaty Rights" - just living in the UK on its own won't necessarily do.

How can it be determined if an EEA citizen living in the UK is "exercising Treaty Rights" or not?

[JAJ]

Other people on EEA family status have got into trouble at permanent resident stage if the Home Office has ruled that the EEA citizen isn't "exercising Treaty Rights" - just living in the UK on its own won't necessarily do.

How can it be determined if an EEA citizen living in the UK is "exercising Treaty Rights" or not?

Paragraph's 6.2.1 - 6.2.4 of this document from the Nationality Instructions explain what this means:
http://www.ind.homeoffice.gov.uk/docume ... iew=Binary (pdf)

[JAJ]

I didn't know about switching to a spouse visa once he was here, thats something I will look into, thank you.

Can't you solicitor explain it in more detail?

[clm]

Thanks again Jaj,

I am confused as you said in my other post on Irish law. Im just trying to gather all the info I can.

Im going to speak to my solcitor tomorrow about switching to a spouse visa once he is here.

Im also going to discuss again about trying for a spouse visa as the EEA Permit just sounds awful right now as we do plan on moving to Ireland down the line and I would preferably like my children to be born in Ireland. This doesn't look possible with the family permit because of the timescale and the fact that I have to work the whole time here.

I had planned to not work the last semester of my degree -next year. Would that mean that I was not exercising my treaty rights,even though it would be just to get the best out of my degree??

Also if we got refused a spouse visa could we then apply for an eea family permit?

[JAJ]

Thanks again Jaj,

I am confused as you said in my other post on Irish law. Im just trying to gather all the info I can.

Im going to speak to my solcitor tomorrow about switching to a spouse visa once he is here.

Im also going to discuss again about trying for a spouse visa as the EEA Permit just sounds awful right now as we do plan on moving to Ireland down the line and I would preferably like my children to be born in Ireland. This doesn't look possible with the family permit because of the timescale and the fact that I have to work the whole time here.

I had planned to not work the last semester of my degree -next year. Would that mean that I was not exercising my treaty rights,even though it would be just to get the best out of my degree??

Also if we got refused a spouse visa could we then apply for an eea family permit?

Your solicitor should be able to explain all this to you.

But you also need to be clear on your own plans. How far into the future is "down the line"?

If all you wanted to do is get your husband to the UK for a year or so, and then apply for an Irish spouse visa, then an EEA Family Permit works fine.

But if you are planning to stay in the UK for 5 or so years, then it makes sense to plan for him to get British citizenship. And the two ways to speed that up are to look at a Spouse visa and/or Naturalisation as a British citizen yourself.

[scrudu]

Regarding one point made by JAJ regarding Irish Citizenship

You should be aware that children born to Irish citizens living in the UK are automatically British citizens (except for very specific exceptions, such as tourists, diplomats).

According to Irish Law (see http://www.oasis.gov.ie/moving_country/ ... scent.html)

If either of your parents was an Irish citizen at the time of your birth, then you are automatically an Irish citizen, irrespective of your place of birth

Therefore any child would entitled to an Irish passport and citizenship as well.

[clm]

Thanks Scrudu,

I thought that. My children having Irish passports is really important to me.