Settlement Application - past status dilemma

[SunnyDayz]

Hi,

I’m a British citizen who recently got married overseas. My wife is now completing her new passport application and will shortly be applying for her settlement visa. However, our circumstances are slightly complicated and we would appreciate any advice from other board members.

Prior to her return, my wife had been living in the UK for a number of years, but she never had a visa to enter the UK, nor did she ever claim asylum – she just got into the UK without anyone knowing. She returned to her home country voluntarily earlier this summer – we just bought a ticket and she flew home without any immigration questions ever being asked. I flew out a couple of months later and we finally realised our dream of getting married.

We are now trying to decide the best course of action regarding the settlement application, and would like to know if there’s any advice on what the consequences of taking a completely honest approach, and declaring her previous status in the UK might be. We obviously want to tell the whole truth as it means we can then use all the evidence from our two year relationship here.

The similar cases I’ve seen posted here seem to concern those who originally entered the UK legally - such as failed asylum applications or visa overstaying, and I’ve been delighted to read the successful conclusions to so many of these stories. But I do not know what the outcome would be in our circumstances. I believe my wife was technically an illegal entrant.

My questions are - would her application be looked on unkindly for this, and could they impose a retrospective ban on her entering the UK?

Will there be lots of questions and investigations causing a very lengthy delay?

Finally, could being honest and declaring that she had entered, stayed and worked here for so long destroy the chances of a successful outcome for her application, and severely damage our dream of building our future together here?

Many thanks

S

[John]

SunnyDayz, congratulations on the marriage.

The comment must be that the application form needs to be completed truthfully .... and I am not suggesting for one moment that you and your wife intended to do otherwise.

Work on the basis that as regards the visa application .... get caught in the lie ... wave the visa goodbye!

Which country is your wife from? And how are you doing putting together the required "evidence folder"? After all, irrespective of past background, if the evidence in support of the application is incomplete then the application will get refused.

[SunnyDayz]

John,

Thank you for the quick reply and the good advice.

My wife is Ukrainian. We’ve already built up quite a comprehensive “evidence folder” – and many thanks to all the members of this board for their comments and advice on how best to compile the relevant information.

Being totally truthful about her time in the UK is very important, as it is forms the most significant part of our evidence - we met three years ago at work and built a very close relationship. She moved in with me over two years ago and from the very beginning of our relationship I turned my brain inside out and spent many sleepless nights thinking how to “correct” her status so that we can build a future together, without fear of being separated at any moment.

It was the hardest decision of our lives for her to return home - as she could have been banned from returning on her exit, but strangely it was also the easiest because we knew it meant we could finally get married, and no one could stop us doing that there. So, having her return to Ukraine without any problems was such as relief, and the time I recently spent with her there was the happiest of my life – we were finally free to love each other without fear.

But that’s not the end because she’s there and I’m here, with a great cloud of bureaucracy looming over us. Yes she entered, lived and worked in the UK “illegally” but that’s how we met and fell in love. I want to tell our story - I want to shout it from the rooftops, but I’m also scared that the truth could keep us from being together.

S

[John]

SunnyDayz, it is of course not possible to give any guarantee but there are numerous posts on this Board, from people in roughly your circumstance, where the relevant person has returned home from the UK and then got a settlement visa to return.

Judging by what you post I confidently expect your wife to be back in the UK in the foreseeable future.

Your evidence ..... do you intend that it will actually go into a loose-leaf folder .... divided into relevant sections .... the evidence being in transparent pockets? There is no compulsion for you to do that but for a moment put yourself in the shoes of the ECO dealing with the visa application in Kiev .... it will certainly make his/her job a lot easier ... and should make it quicker to come to the positive decision you are looking for.

[clm]

Hi,
I just want to say what a relief it is to read about someone in the same situation as me. I met my Moldovan boyfriend 2 years ago in Ireland (my family home)where he was working illegally for 3 years. We fell deeply in love and made the decision for him to go home so we could do things properly and make a future together, I just returned from two months travelling in Moldova and Ukriane. We got married two weeks ago and now I am here in London alone trying to get as much info as possibly about how to get him here with me. I think a solicitor is my best bet due to his immigration past. I am afriad I do it myself I will leave something out and ruin our chances.

I would be interested to know how things turn out for you and I wish you the best of luck.

[ilm]

SunnyDayz,

I do not believe the truth will keep you apart. Nothing in the rules for a spouse visa means the ECO can reject the application on those grounds. As has been said many times though, do make sure your application is well prepared and gives them no option for them but to grant the visa there and then.

clm,

Solicitors can be great and should know their stuff but do not assume just because you have a solicitor your husband will get a visa. I would suggest that you make it your business to fully understand what is required for a spouse visa whether you use a solicitor or not. Read as much as you can including the many posts on this forum, both successful and unsuccessful, learn from them and ensure your application is comprehensive. Ultimately it is you who has everything to loose if it fails, not the solicitor.

[SunnyDayz]

hi Clm

Sorry for not replying sooner, I've been back with my wife supporting her application.

Congrats on the wedding! I know what its like to be back alone trying to put together all the information, and how daunting and stressful the process can seem, but as I'm sure you've seen there are lots of positive results for people in similar situations posted here, I certainly found this encouraging - plus the very useful advice from John (thanks again).

I'll try to keep you posted on the outcome of our application when I have some news (we have an interview in October).

I did contact a reputable immigration solicitor who very kindly discussed our situation on the phone for 15 mins (for free:). He was "cautiously optimistic" that the application would be successful. They did offer to help with the application but I agree with Ilm - you and your husband will have all the information you need for the application and there is a lot of good advice here on how to present the information. I may be wrong but I did not feel that a solicitor would add much value at the application stage.

Good luck, and I hope to have some good news to share in the near future.

S

[clm]

Thanks so much for replying. I have been reading the posts here everyday and everything else I can find and think I am pretty clued up what is required for a spouse visa. Please do keep me up to date on your application sunnydayz.

Thanks again.

[JAJ]

Hi,
I just want to say what a relief it is to read about someone in the same situation as me. I met my Moldovan boyfriend 2 years ago in Ireland (my family home)where he was working illegally for 3 years.

But has he worked illegally in the United Kingdom?

[SunnyDayz]

My wife's Visa application was refused. I cannot go into the details as the case is now being handed over to our lawyer for the appeal process, i'm also still finding it too upsetting to relive the events of last week.

The advice I would give to anyone in a similar situation would be to include as much evidence as humanly possible and do not expect the interview to be a pleasant process. You will not be looked kindly on for any previous immigration history, and because of this you will need to work extra hard at proving everything you say and do.

We all know the reality of living in a country that has a large "illegal" population, so the fact that someone in this situation will meet and fall in love with a UK citizen should not be a surprise, but it appears that is not the case where some ECO's are concerned, and your character will be questioned for doing so.

I was advised before the interview that we should hope we would be interviewed by someone with some humanity... comments like "you are not going to be with your wife for a very long time" to people who are already on the verge of tears shows that this did not happen.

What is worse it that they're right, i am probably unable to get more leave from work to see the woman I love again before the new year, I'm counting the days already.

I hope others have more luck that us. I will try to let you know how the appeal works out... or the European Courts, or what ever it takes before my wife and I can be a family again.

S

[John]

Sorry to hear about that SunnyDayz. Can you post more detail about the "reason(s) for refusal"? Without that detail it is impossible to give any assistance about what you should do next.

[clm]

Sunnydayz,

I am so so sorry, god I cant imagine how you must feel, I am so scared about the whole process.

Do keep us updated on what happens.

[rainbow24]

SunnyDazy,

I am so glad that finally I have been able to find someone who is going through exactly the same problem as me.

I am new to the Immigration Board, and my situation is very similar.

I had met my husband in the UK through a very close friend of mine (she and my husband are 1st cousins). He told me everything about his situation from the start, that he had paid money to this "agent" in Pakistan who helped him to come to the UK using a false passport etc etc. Despite this, I still loved him so much and I wanted to help him get his status sorted out so that he could live a normal life here in the UK.

We (my husband and I) went about things in a slightly different way. We are both Muslims so we did a Nikah (Muslim ceremony) here in the UK so that we could live together as husband and wife. We knew we could not have a civil marriage due to his status so we had a religious marriage instead. We got married in January 2006 and have lived together in this country up until August 2006 when he voluntarily left to go back to Pakistan to apply for a spouse visa. Unfortunately, we have no proof ie bills in my name or his to say that we lived together during this time, and we lived with a relative during this period until he went back to his country of origin.

In August 2006 I accompanied him to Pakistan as I was told by a solicitor in the UK that the Nikah certificate was not accepted here under UK law and therefore we were not recognised as a married couple. Why? because he was illegal. I therefore had to repeat the whole ceremony again in Pakistan. The solicitor also told me that I had to take a photocopy of my passport showing the Entry/Exit stamp to Pakistan to prove I had been here. This was all part of the Spouse Visa application.
On exit out of the country, we were stopped at Heathrow Airport and he was issued with a letter to say that they were aware he had entered the UK illegally from the start. I was told by a manager at the UK Immigration section that this should have no bearing on his case when applying for a spouse visa as he has not been deported, he was caught on his way out of the country whilst leaving voluntarily.

I left my husband at the airport in Pakistan and returned to the UK to gather evidence for his visa. Every day I can't sleep, I am not eating properly because I miss him so much. This is tearing me apart. I am also pregnant with his baby (due in December 06) and I am scared that they will reject his visa. I need all the support I can get with this baby financially and emotinally. I am in a full time job, but I still need my husbands help.

Sunnydazy can you please tell me why they rejected your wifes case because my situation is similar to yours and I am scared that my baby is going to grow up without a father. I have already spent £800 calling Pakistan since August and I desperately need help. I miss him so much that I cant live without him. Please help.

[rainbow24]

sunndazy, I should also add to my previous message that my husband is going to apply for his visa at the end of october. So far we have provided exactly the following evidence.

5 month bank statements showing I earn £1,000 a month after tax.
7 months payslips
letter from a private company confirming that our accomodation is not overcrowded and should pass entry clearance.
tenancy agreement showing that we are living in a room in a shared house paying £250 per month. we also rent a box room which is included in the price. this room would be used for the baby when he/she comes.
a letter from the doctor confirming my pregnancy along with pictures of the scan.
a letter showing how we first met.
contract from my employer and a letter confirming my employment.

Is there anything you could add to this list which you feel may help us? Any advice would be helpful.

[Ellie]

Hi, I am no expert in this topic, but ur letter has torn my heart, I am also in similar situation.
My advice is:
1. Do u have pictures of u during ur time in UK, get as many evidence even if you don't have bills in his name.
2. Get as many letters from friends and family (his cousin that u introduce you) and everyone who knows of ur relationship, try to prove ur marriege is real, cause that maybe the only point they can refuse u visa, because of his past immigration history, they may think that he is using u to get to uk only(financials and accomedations look good)...
3. get the original Nikah and explain why u had to get another Nikah...
4. This may be wild advice, but I think it will prove without doubt u r married. As I understand, the process in pakistan takes about 3 months, so when u give birth, u may want to do DNA test to show that the baby is ur husband's, I don't mean anything bad. But wouldn't that prove u r really married
5. Make sure he doesn't mess up in his interview and that he says all the right things

I hope some more advice will come along soon, I hope u the best of luck

[SunnyDayz]

Thank you all for your replies and for helping me feel I am not quite so alone in all of this.

I will try and help as much as I can. The reason for the refusal was a lack of evidence of a subsisting marriage and prior relationship, which is why I stress the need to provide as much evidence as is possible. While being an illegal entrant should not in itself be a reason for refusal, it may mean you'll need to go that extra mile when providing evidence of your relationship.

Get as much evidence as is possible. Statements from friends and family, all the photos you have and whatever else you can provide to document your relationship. We fell short of doing this in our application and subsequently will now do all this for the appeal - but get it all there for the application/interview and hopefully you will not have to go through the same painful wait.

Rainbow, try not lose heart. As I have found, it may not be an easy path to having the one you love with you again, but it will happen, and the more information you can bring to the interview the quicker this will hopefully be. Try to be positive and keep strong for yourself and your baby. My thoughts and prayers are with you and with others who are going through the same process to be with their loved one.

S

[John]

Sunnydayz, you are right, "evidence of contact" is very important .... to prove that the marriage is not a "marriage of convenience" but is indeed very real.

Before my wife applied for her spouse visa back in 2001 I showed the application form to my MP, who stressed the importance of "evidence of contact". Accordingly our "evidence folder" went overboard on that aspect, and it worked, spouse visa granted!

[Brit Chick]

Rainbow...I hope you are also keeping all evidence of contact with your husband at the moment, be it phone cards, itemised bills, correspondence etc.

Also, get your nikkahnama translated and attested in pakistan....most advocates will do this for a nominal fee. You will definetely need this as the original nikkahnama will probably be in urdu (the one issued from Pakistan)

Includes any receipts etc from your wedding ceromony, eg for the venue hire, shopping. If you got any cards from guests include some.

Don't forget plenty of pics, both of the wedding ceremonies and your time together in england.

Inshahallah everything will work out for you guys.

[rainbow24]

Thankyou to everyone who has helped me. I am so happy to know that there are people out there in the same situation as me.

I have spent the last 2 months deperately trying to find someone in a similar situation. I keep reading about people who have overstayed their visas but have never actually read about someone who's partner entered the UK illegally from the start, until now.

I am following everyones advice and am asking family and friends for letters confirming that the marriage is genuine. So far I have 6 letters. Is this enough or should I get more?

One person suggested photographs of the time we spent together in England. My husband already has these with him in Pakistan (thank God) and a video of the time we spent together in Windsor sight seeing. We also have plenty of pics of the marriage in Pakistan.

As far as contacting each other since our separation. I have 2 very large phone bills of contacting Pakistan. Sometimes I would call my husband 17 times in 1 day (phone bills have amounted to £270 each and so far I have 2 bills). I also have phone cards but I used someone elses land line phone as I only have a mobile phone. Not sure if you can use a mobile with the calling cards. I have so far used 40 phone cards worth £5 each.

Wouldn't the fact that I am pregnant be evidence enough to say that this marriage is genuine. Surely the ECO wouldn't go as far as to say that he has only got me pregnant for a visa. Would they?

I was thinking of getting a council house in a few months but not sure if this falls under the public funds issue. I know that my husband cant have public funds if he were to stay in this country for 2 years, but the council house would be in my name. How does this work? I am in a full time job so am not claiming Income Support or Job Seekers Allowance. Will having a council house affect his visa?

Sunnydazy, how long does an appeal take in this country if his visa does get refused? What is the procedure?

[rainbow24]

One more thing, sorry for going on and on. Do I have to attend an interview in Pakistan? I'm worried about this because I will be giving birth soon, so not sure what will happen with regards to the interview. Once again, apologies for asking so many questions. I think this website has helped me more than anyone else has.

[SunnyDayz]

hi rainbow24.. happy Eid!!

Sounds like you're making good progress on getting all your evidence ready, keep all those phone cards, but explain what they are... I've been calling my wife everyday since she went back, but they would not accept the calls as evidence because I use a telediscount number and as the 087 number is all that shows on my bill they said it was not evidence... !!!

You don't need to be at the interview... and i'm sure that they'll see you have a very good reason why you cannot be there. Try not to worry, with your child on the way, it looks like you have ample evidence of a subsisting marriage i've been told that appeals take 6-12 months in the UK, but cross that bridge if you need to, concentrate on the application for now.

Talking of appeals, I have been advised not to appeal but to wait some time, build more evidence of a subsisting marriage and apply again in 12 months!! Apparently the appeal will be based on evidence that was submitted with the application, and I can see the mistakes we made in not providing enough. While I'm not convinced that the evidence we did submit was considered properly I can accept that we should have provided more... eg we submitted a small selection of photos, but on reflection we should have submitted every photo we have.. I've learnt my lesson the hard way !!

I'd appreciate some advice on waiting 12 months though? I think its too long, me and my wife want to be back together now, and getting on with our life again. I'm also worried that if we wait a year it's not going to look like we want to be back together? i plan to visit my wife as often as leave and finances will allow - probably every 6 weeks, and hope we'll have enough evidence early in the new year. Do you think this will be ok, can we apply again sooner?

S

[ilm]

Just confirming what you say about photographs. We provided a separate folder with over 50 photographs of us together with notes on when and where the photograph was taken. We also had over 15 letters from family and friends saying how they knew us and some event we were all at that was memorable. We also provided another seperate folder with all correspondance my wife had at our shared address. Fortunately we only lived at one address and we still live there. In a third folder we had all the cards we had ever sent each other. With the main application folder we submitted 4 folders full of evidence.

We were advised to provide every bit of evidence we had so we put everything in. I am sure we didn't need it all but didn't want to leave anything to chance.

As I have said before we wrote a note for each of the rules explaining why we met them. Don't leave the evidence to explain itself, tell the ECO what you have provided.

In the case of the 'subsisting marriage' we had a section in the folder titled 'Our Relationship'. The index to the section sumarised our relationship from when we first met. Things we do, and have done together, notes about our friends and their letters of support, that we love each other and that we intend to spend the rest of our lives together. This was followed by and index of all the evidence included to support this.

As I understand it there is no rule about waiting 12 months and every application will be treated on its own merit. I don't believe there is any reason you can't make another application as soon as you have evidence to address the issues which led to the rejection. They will doubtless check the previous application so I think it would be wise to mention it in the application and document exactly why the new application is different and what you have submitted to address the issues of the first.

[Ellie]

Hello All,
I wish you can help me with letters from friends.
I plan to ask some friends and family members to write me letters to support our relationship.
However, 99% of my friends don't speak English, so they will ask me to write a letter and they will sign it. I can think of maybe max of 2 different formats to write 2 letters, however the rest will be identical.
First. What are the points that must be covered.
Second. If anyone can post their friends' letter, without name and address, so that I can get some ideas of how should these letters be written. Sorry about that, but I am having difficulties with them

[Brit Chick]

Sunnydayz - you can reapply straightaway, but obviously you should have all the extra evidence together so perhaps thats why you were advised to wait 12 months cos by then you will have all the extra evidence required?

If you were to have all the extra evidence needed before the 12 months then I don't see why you couldn't reapply as soon as it's all ready.

[rainbow24]

Sunnydazy,

You are right. It does take 6-12 months for any appeal.

I asked 2 different solicitors what would happen if my husbands visa got rejected. They both told me that my husbands case would go for appeal and the standard waiting time for a court hearing in the UK is 6-12 months at the moment so you are absolutely right.

Have you thought about going to your MP and having him/her take on your case? I know people who have done this, and have been granted a visa without the need of having to wait 12 months for an appeal.

It was explained to me by a solicitor that there is also something called a turnaround period. If a visa is rejected for a minor reason for example lack of payslips, missed evidence etc, the outstanding info can be submitted to the embassy within 28 days by your solicitor and the decision can be turned around without the need of an appeal. Sunnydazy you would need to speak to your solicitor/lawyer about this, but it is an option worth exploring.

I am having problems at the moment with letter writing. Nearly all my husbands family/friends can't speak a word of English, so I am having to type all the letters for them and get them to sign each one. It is causing me so much headache but I am following everyones advice on this forum and am trying to gather as much evidence as possible. So far, I have 4 letters. Not sure if this is enough, but my husband also has photos and a video of us together in the UK and Pakistan as well.

I am deeply worried and my biggest fear most of all is the time we have spent together or lack of it. We have known each other since August last year and got married in January this year. The reason why we haven't spent so long dating each is because our religion forbidds this. We moved in together in March 06 as I had to stay in my flat until the tenancy agreement ran out in February. From March until end of July we have been living together as a married couple. I am scared that the embassy will reject the visa on the basis that we haven't dated each other for a long period of time, we haven't lived together for very long and they could even start to accuse my husband of getting me pregnant for the sake of a visa. The length of the dating period/marriage is causing us great concern. And yet, I cant understand why they would reject our case and allow couples who have had arranged marriages abroad a visa!!! At least me and my husband have met each other in the UK!!