Visa/RC for Non-EU spouse using EU Directive2004/38/EC

[andyjohnst]

Hi everyone,

I am a UK citizen. My wife is a NON-EU citizen, she is from Azerbaijan.

I will below post my experience with the Irish, the Residence Card application and other EU related visa topics.

Irish visit visa applied for on 17 November 2011 (FREE)
Irish visit visa issued on 24 November 2011 (FREE)
Arrived in Dublin, Ireland 2 December 2011
Residence Card application sent 28 December 2011 (FREE)
Residence Card application acknowledged on 13 January 2012
Stamp 4, GNIB card received on 20 January 2012 (FREE)
Irish Multi entry visa applied for 15 February 2012 (FREE)
Irish Multi Entry visa received 22 February 2012 (FREE)
UK Visit Visa applied for on 7 March 2012 (FREE)
UK Visit visa received on 8 March 2012, valid for 6 months, multi entry (FREE)

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My Story

After an unsuccessful application for a visit visa for the UK I came out to Azerbaijan to be with my wife. Then realised it would be better to live in an English speaking country.

So, applied for an Irish visit visa for my wife to accompany me to "visit" Ireland. We completed the application and documents had to be sent to Ankara, Turkey for processing. This arrived there last Thursday.

Documents supplied were our original UK marriage certificate, the application form, her passport, copy of my passport, copy of my visa showing I am in Azerbaijan and copy of my driving license showing my UK address.

I have a few questions and wonder if anyone can assist or has experience in it.

Answers to the following questions are below:

Question 1
Does anyone know how long application generally take which are processed in Ankara, Turkey?

Question 2
I stated that my wife will travel with me from Azerbaijan to Ireland. However, my Azerbaijani visa expires on 1 December so I will have to leave here. Can my wife still use the said visa and travel on her own, even though we stated I would travel with her?

Question 3
Do you think the Irish Embassy in Ankara, Turkey would speed up the processing if we were to contact them to state my visa is expiring and my wife needs to travel with me?

Question 4
Would my wife require a transit visa if we were connecting flights in Paris or Heathrow on wards to Ireland on the same day. We would have to change planes (different airlines) and probably collect bags and check in for the next flight.


Question 5
Obviously, we stated that we are going for a visit but do we still have the right to live there should I find suitable or any work in 90 days?


Thank you in advance if anyone can assist on these questions. If you can only answer a few, please answer any you can.

Once I have experienced and have the answer from my own experience I will update everyone on here from them to read.[/b]

[andyjohnst]

Ok. Seems no one had the answers or suggestions. So here is my experience

1. Posted the visa application for my non EU spouse to enter Ireland as a visitor with me travelling with her, from outside the EU. Posted to Ankara, Turkey. Got the visa issued 5 working days later.

2. As far as I have read, my partner would have had no problem in travelling on her own but may have encountered problem on arrival in Ireland. Maybe a letter which provided a phone number for my wife to give to immigration control in Ireland stating I am outside waiting for her would suffice.

3. Already a fast process. I did quote Article 5.1 and 5.2 (Right of entry) on the covering letter. Best to show you know what you're talking about. If you PM me I can provide you with the template of the letter which gets a visa with success.

4. Paris - it is possible to transit airside between terminals but not so at Heathrow. Best to ensure you are travelling all the way with the same airline or atleast ensure you do not leave the international zone of the airport. However, France seem to be in control of this directive also and advised me a short stay visa could be issued within 5 working days, on an appointment basis at their embassy. Only need to provide them the standard documents, application form, photo, passport, marriage cert, copy of EU citizen passport.

Heathrow - as usual - British embassy failed to respond. Standard practice for the british embassy/Government! So I am still non the wiser on this front. As far as I am aware, if you arrive and depart by air within 24 hours, hold valid entry for final destination and can prove confirmed flights you do not need a transit visa for UK. I will chase up for a reponse from them today and see what they say.

5. Again not a problem as long as the EU citizen is exercising rights of free movement the non-eu spouse can apply for the family permit. Other topics discuss this in further detail.

If I have not covered anything and someone would like further information, please do not hesitate to write on here or contact me

[andyjohnst]

My wife got issued a Type C visa with the reference Spouse of an EU citizen.

Duration of the visa states XX - Reading it, Type C visa is a visit visa. Yes - we did apply for a visit visa for my wife and I will accompany her to travel there. This should be valid for 3 month from entry.

We fly to Dublin, Ireland on 1 December 2011 from Baku, Azerbaijan transit in Istanbul, Turkey.

Next step I might need a little help with.

Before applying for the EU 1 Residence Card I must find employment.

While I am sourcing employment is it ok for me to claim the equivalent Job Seekers Allowance in Ireland? I read you can transfer your countries JSA to another member country of the EU for a period not exceeding 3 months. This wouldn't jepordise the future RC application would it?

Any help anyone can advise on this would be excellent.

[andyjohnst]

Here is a copy of the covering letter I sent for my wifes Accompany EU Spouse Visit visa. They issued a type C visa. Remember, I was with my aife in Azerbaijan and travelled with her. If you are not travelling with her you may need to change it some what.

Documents submitted:
Wife's Passport (NON-EU)
My passport (UK)
UK wedding cert
signed application
Copy of current visa to Azerbaijan, signed and dated (although this was in passport too, I wanted to highlight it to their attention.
Copy of signed UK dirving licence, signed and dated (just thought I would send this to show proof of address in UK, although this is not needed)

To whom it may concern:

Application Transaction Number: {your application number}

Application for visit visa: {wife’s name};{wife’s DOB}; Passport number: {wife’s passport number}

My name is {wife’s name}. I am applying for a visa to visit The Republic Of Ireland and the visa should be issued on the basis of Directive 2004/38/EC. I will be travelling to Ireland with my husband from {your location{, to visit friends in Dublin and Ballina. My husband is also taking me for my birthday to visit the beautiful country.

From Directive 2004/38/EC, I quote from Article 5.1 and 5.2 (Right of Entry),

1) Without prejudice to the provisions on travel documents applicable to national border controls, Member States shall grant Union citizens leave to enter their territory with a valid identity card or passport and shall grant family members who are not nationals of a Member State leave to enter their territory with a valid passport.

No entry visa or equivalent formality may be imposed on Union citizens.

2) Family members who are not nationals of a Member State shall only be required to have an entry visa in accordance with Regulation (EC) No 539/2001 or, where appropriate, with national law. For the purposes of this Directive, possession of the valid residence card referred to in Article 10 shall exempt such family members from the visa requirement.

Member States shall grant such persons every facility to obtain the necessary visas. Such visas shall be issued free of charge as soon as possible and on the basis of an accelerated procedure.

I am a direct family member of my husband, {your name}. {your name} is a citizen of the United Kingdom and his passport number is {your passport number}.

Enclosed is a copy of my husbands’ passport, who is currently on holiday in {your location , if you’re there} with me. Also enclosed is a copy of his current Visa to {location} which is proof that he is still in the country and intends to travel with me to Ireland, once I have been issued the said visa. I have also enclosed our original marriage certificate which took place on the {date of wedding} in {location}. We were married in UK so if you were not married in UK you will need to get a notarized copy to say it is genuine}.

Thank you for your time and I look forward to receiving my visa.

Yours faithfully,

[andyjohnst]

This is a copy of the letter I sent to INIS with my wife application for a Residence Card

This is the letter I have wrote to the INIS.

This letter is to be taken into consideration with my wife’s application for a Residence Card.

I, ****, a UK citizen (passport number ****) arrived in Ireland on 2 December 2011, with my wife **** (passport number ****) a Azerbaijani citizen. Since then, I have gained employment in state, working for ***** in Dublin 4. I commenced my contract on 20 December 2011. Therefore, I am currently exercising my EU Treaty Rights, under EU Directive 2004/38/EC.

We have enclosed my UK passport, my wife’s Azerbaijani passport, our UK marriage certificate, 2 x passport photo’s for both myself and my wife, my offer of employment, along with signed employment contract, proof of address from the Permanent TSB bank and the Department of Social Protection Client Identity Services.

With regards to the documents provided, ECJ Case C-157/03, Commission v Spain [2005] states that the documents we have provided fall in line with the documents required as laid down in Article 4(3)(c), (d) and (e) of Directive 68/360, Article 6 of Directive 73/148 and Article 2 of Directive 90/365. Those conditions [for a Residence Card] are exhaustive in nature (see, to that effect, Case 48/75 Royer [1976] ECR 497, paragraph 37; Case C-363/89 Roux [1991] ECR I-273, paragraphs 14 and 15; and Case C-376/89 Giagounidis [1991] ECR I-1069, paragraph 21).

At this moment in time, we are unable to provide certain documents which you have asked for in the application for the following reasons:

Evidence of residence in the state
As we have only just moved to the state, we are currently residing with friends, at the address above (****). Once I have received my first wage, on 27 January 2012, we will then be in a position to obtain rental accommodation. At this point, we will then forward on the required documents (i.e. letter from landlord/agency, rent contract or rent book) Included now are a letter from the revenue confirming my PPS number and also a letter from Permanent TSB bank confirming the opening of my bank account.

Evidence of current activity of the EU citizen in the state
Enclosed in the documents is my contract of employment with **** Limited, dated 19 December 2011. As my employment started on 20 December 2011 and the company make salary payments on the last Friday of every month, my first payment of salary will be on the 27 January 2012 with the next salary payment on 24 February 2012. Therefore, once I received my payslips from ***** Limited on or around the 27 January 2012 and 24 February 2012, respectively, I will forward them onto you to be attached with the documents you already hold. As this is my first employment in the state I do not hold a recent P60 to supply to you. With regards to Tax Credits Certificate, I have also sent the 12A form of (Application for a Certificate of Tax Credits and Standard Rate Cut-Off Point) to the Revenue on 21 December 2011 and I currently waiting to receive my certificate. Again, once I receive this, I will forward onto you to accompany my wife’s application for a Residence Card.


If you have any further questions or queries with regards to this, please do not hesitate to contact me and I will do my best to resolve such queries.

[adlexy]

This is a copy of the letter I sent to INIS with my wife application for a Residence Card

This is the letter I have wrote to the INIS.

This letter is to be taken into consideration with my wife’s application for a Residence Card.

I, ****, a UK citizen (passport number ****) arrived in Ireland on 2 December 2011, with my wife **** (passport number ****) a Azerbaijani citizen. Since then, I have gained employment in state, working for ***** in Dublin 4. I commenced my contract on 20 December 2011. Therefore, I am currently exercising my EU Treaty Rights, under EU Directive 2004/38/EC.

We have enclosed my UK passport, my wife’s Azerbaijani passport, our UK marriage certificate, 2 x passport photo’s for both myself and my wife, my offer of employment, along with signed employment contract, proof of address from the Permanent TSB bank and the Department of Social Protection Client Identity Services.

With regards to the documents provided, ECJ Case C-157/03, Commission v Spain [2005] states that the documents we have provided fall in line with the documents required as laid down in Article 4(3)(c), (d) and (e) of Directive 68/360, Article 6 of Directive 73/148 and Article 2 of Directive 90/365. Those conditions [for a Residence Card] are exhaustive in nature (see, to that effect, Case 48/75 Royer [1976] ECR 497, paragraph 37; Case C-363/89 Roux [1991] ECR I-273, paragraphs 14 and 15; and Case C-376/89 Giagounidis [1991] ECR I-1069, paragraph 21).

At this moment in time, we are unable to provide certain documents which you have asked for in the application for the following reasons:

Evidence of residence in the state
As we have only just moved to the state, we are currently residing with friends, at the address above (****). Once I have received my first wage, on 27 January 2012, we will then be in a position to obtain rental accommodation. At this point, we will then forward on the required documents (i.e. letter from landlord/agency, rent contract or rent book) Included now are a letter from the revenue confirming my PPS number and also a letter from Permanent TSB bank confirming the opening of my bank account.

Evidence of current activity of the EU citizen in the state
Enclosed in the documents is my contract of employment with **** Limited, dated 19 December 2011. As my employment started on 20 December 2011 and the company make salary payments on the last Friday of every month, my first payment of salary will be on the 27 January 2012 with the next salary payment on 24 February 2012. Therefore, once I received my payslips from ***** Limited on or around the 27 January 2012 and 24 February 2012, respectively, I will forward them onto you to be attached with the documents you already hold. As this is my first employment in the state I do not hold a recent P60 to supply to you. With regards to Tax Credits Certificate, I have also sent the 12A form of (Application for a Certificate of Tax Credits and Standard Rate Cut-Off Point) to the Revenue on 21 December 2011 and I currently waiting to receive my certificate. Again, once I receive this, I will forward onto you to accompany my wife’s application for a Residence Card.


If you have any further questions or queries with regards to this, please do not hesitate to contact me and I will do my best to resolve such queries.

I will say that all the "t's" have been crossed and all the "i's" have been dotted. Do let us know when the card has been delivered to you - surely there is nothing else to add!

[jcn50]

No reply from INIS so far?

[jcn50]

With regards to the documents provided, ECJ Case C-157/03, Commission v Spain [2005] states that the documents we have provided fall in line with the documents required as laid down in Article 4(3)(c), (d) and (e) of Directive 68/360, Article 6 of Directive 73/148 and Article 2 of Directive 90/365. Those conditions [for a Residence Card] are exhaustive in nature (see, to that effect, Case 48/75 Royer [1976] ECR 497, paragraph 37; Case C-363/89 Roux [1991] ECR I-273, paragraphs 14 and 15; and Case C-376/89 Giagounidis [1991] ECR I-1069, paragraph 21).

Some comments on this:
- you don't usually show your artillery in a peaceful time (and for the first time);
- the onus is on you, you don't decide if you have submitted enough documents, the immigration officer, and ultimately a judge in a court is able to.

[adlexy]

With regards to the documents provided, ECJ Case C-157/03, Commission v Spain [2005] states that the documents we have provided fall in line with the documents required as laid down in Article 4(3)(c), (d) and (e) of Directive 68/360, Article 6 of Directive 73/148 and Article 2 of Directive 90/365. Those conditions [for a Residence Card] are exhaustive in nature (see, to that effect, Case 48/75 Royer [1976] ECR 497, paragraph 37; Case C-363/89 Roux [1991] ECR I-273, paragraphs 14 and 15; and Case C-376/89 Giagounidis [1991] ECR I-1069, paragraph 21).

Some comments on this:
- you don't usually show your artillery in a peaceful time (and for the first time);
- the onus is on you, you don't decide if you have submitted enough documents, the immigration officer, and ultimately a judge in a court is able to.

I agree with jcn50, you don't have to show weapon at a time of peace.

However, in my experiences, it may be necessary in some instances to let these guys know that you do know what you are talking about.

For a walk-in Irish Working Visa application in London in 2006, I have been told by visa officer that I had completed a wrong form before. We argued for many minutes until it occured to me to tell her to speak with her manager or supervisor, who incidentally confirmed that I had completed the correct form and should be issued with the visa.

In such a scenario, if I were not there, I would probably have received a letter in the post or my passport back and she would have written that the application was wrong.

In this case therefore, full arsenal as defined by andyjohnst is sensible. Hopefully, it will define the results

[andyjohnst]

Hi sorry for not replying.

My wife was issued with the Stamp 4 in her passport on 20 January 2012 which is valid until 2 July 2012.

Further to my letter they still requested the following:
2 x payslips
Tax certificate

Rental agreement
Utility bills
PBRT letter.

I have until 2 July to produce these documents. I have everything ready now bar my 2nd payslip. Once I have this, the documents they requested will be issued you to them. I have complied with their request as the document they ask for are easy to come across and nothing too unreasonable. It would have only been a problem had they not given my wife the stamp 4 in her passport.

eutreatyrights@justice.ie is their email address and the only form of contact. I was disappointed with this at first but they have replied to each of my emails in at least 24 hours.

[adlexy]

Hi sorry for not replying.

My wife was issued with the Stamp 4 in her passport on 20 January 2012 which is valid until 2 July 2012.

Further to my letter they still requested the following:
2 x payslips
Tax certificate

Rental agreement
Utility bills
PBRT letter.

I have until 2 July to produce these documents. I have everything ready now bar my 2nd payslip. Once I have this, the documents they requested will be issued you to them. I have complied with their request as the document they ask for are easy to come across and nothing too unreasonable. It would have only been a problem had they not given my wife the stamp 4 in her passport.

eutreatyrights@justice.ie is their email address and the only form of contact. I was disappointed with this at first but they have replied to each of my emails in at least 24 hours.

andyjohnst,

You have been meticulous in driving this requests and applications. Your cover letters and even the manner you set out to deliver detailed updates to us on this forum has been exemplary and very useful. I commend your capability and wish you and your wife all the best as you close the final huddles!

[annoyed2013]

thank u so much for posting your experience in details. i m going to do the same with my husband so i ll follow ur steps. Best of luck for you and your wife i hope she got all her papers and you are enjoying your life in Ireland