EEA2/EEA3

[jane1981]

Hi, I have some nagging immigration questions, which I hope, can be answered on this site. I am an EEA national who has been residing here for almost 5 years and my husband is a non-EEA national who has also been in this country for over 5 years and is a failed asylum seeker, we got married a couple of months back and as a result launched both EEA3 and EEA2 applications shortly afterwards. Within the initial EEA3 application form, I had not included my passport but had instead submitted my UK issued driving licence. I got a phone call from a European caseworker last month, stating that they were looking at the applications as I had persistently sent letter after letter asking for an update. The individual suggested, although not in any clear way, that I might not be able to qualify for this permanent residency, which I was applying for due to the 5-year rule not being fully satisfied. As the conversation went along he suggested that he would instead be able to issue me with a Registration Certificate, as I must admit I had not done my full research on these issues and as a result was unsure as to what this piece of documentation meant, so I just agreed to it thinking the document would have the same effect as the EEA3 application I had initially made. A few days afterwards I received a letter stating I had to submit my passport for this EEA1 application to be processed, so in turn I wrote to them indicating I had no wish towards applying for such a document as I had by now done more in depth research towards what this document constituted and hence did not feel the need for submitting my passport in fulfilling this Registration Certificate as the letter had indicated as being the reason for requesting my passport ( maybe my own interpretation ). As I had felt that the letter was unclear as to what the submission of my passport would have achieved, to my surprise I received refusal letters for both applications in the post a few days ago and in the letter relating to the EEA2 application, they had stated that they had written to me asking for my passport as a means of processing or aiding in processing this application and I had failed to do so, therefore this was claimed as one of the grounds for refusing the application. The other reason why they had refused his applications was the absence of a ‘valid national passport or ID card or any other documents as evidence of your identity’. This is exactly the nagging point I am seeking clarification upon. He had submitted his passport years back into the hands of the Home Office and was not issued with this ARC Home Office card ( which acts as a form of photo ID ) at the time and from what I have been reading, such persons in this situation have to produce such documentation if their EEA2 applications are to be processed. How can an individual be asked to submit such documentation if the home office itself, is in possession this information? Or do I have my wires twisted on this requirement? In the EEA2 refusal letter it further goes on to mention that ‘ however, if you submit the evidence required your claim to have a right of residence under European law will be fully reconsidered’ and as such I have already sent my passport which I was asked to sent in the first place, although in my own opinion not clearly enough. Finally yet importantly, does anyone have a clue as to how long this reconsideration process takes and any clues on appeal procedures, just to cover all bases?

[olisun]

it would be helpful if you break your post in small paragraphs... it's difficult to read your post

[SunBlue]

Jane,

The caseworker is right:

- he first refused because you didn't send your passport in the first place - which he has the right to do so then.

- You said: "I am an EEA national who has been residing here for almost 5 years"
This is ALMOST 5 years, so you don't qualify yet for permanent residence with form EE3 because you haven't been living in the country and exercising your EEA treay rights. So that's why the caseworker suggested you making an EEA1 application.

[jane1981]

yes i do understan the 5 year rule, what about the issue surrounding the EEA2 as posted?

[jane1981]

hi again, i will now repost this message with the new amendments that i have made on it and hope it proves more clear.






Hi, I have some nagging immigration questions, which I hope, can be answered on this site. I am an EEA national who has been residing here for almost 5 years. The first time I came into this country in April 2002, I had a student visa and was also working part time and in 2004 I no longer required any visa to be in this country due to the accession that happened in that period hence, I began working full time. My husband is a non-EEA national who has also been in this country for over 5 years and is a failed asylum seeker, we got married a couple of months back and as a result launched both EEA3 and EEA2 applications shortly afterwards. Within the initial EEA3 application form, I had not included my passport but had instead submitted my UK issued driving licence. My question is does this not constitute proof of my nationality and identify?, can this document be described as one issued by an EEA member state?.

I got a phone call from a European caseworker last month, stating that they were looking at the applications as I had persistently sent letter after letter asking for an update. The individual suggested, although not in any clear way, that I might not be able to qualify for this permanent residency, which I was applying for due to the 5-year rule not being fully satisfied. My question is, from the information that I have provide can you tell me when would I be able to qualify for this permanent residency? As the conversation went along he suggested that he would instead be able to issue me with a Registration Certificate, as I must admit I had not done any substantial research on these issues and as a result was unsure as to what this piece of documentation meant, so I just agreed to it thinking the document would have the same effect as the EEA3 application which I had initially made.

A few days afterwards I received a letter stating I had to submit my passport for this EEA1 application to be processed, so in turn I wrote to them indicating I had no wish towards applying for such a document as I had by now done more in depth research towards what this document constituted and hence did not feel the need for submitting my passport in fulfilling this Registration Certificate as the letter had indicated as being the reason for requesting my passport ( maybe my own interpretation ). As I had felt that the letter was unclear as to what the submission of my passport would have achieved, to my surprise I received refusal letters for both applications in the post a few days ago and in the letter relating to the EEA2 application, they had stated that they had written to me asking for my passport as a means of processing or aiding in processing this particular application and I had failed to do so, therefore this was claimed as one of the grounds for refusing the application.

This point about not submitting my passport and being the basis for this refusal I do understand, but does it matter whether I apply for this EEA1 application or not ?, as to my understanding this is not a mandatory requirement which should not necessarily affect the EEA2 application if its absent and furthermore, I thought the requirement for an EEA2 application to be processed with relation to this point, is the establishment that I have been exercising my treaty rights for a period exceeding 12 months. than a year, Can I have clarification on this point?. The other reason why they had refused his applications was the absence of a ‘valid national passport or ID card or any other documents as evidence of your identity’. This is exactly the nagging point I am seeking clarification upon. He had submitted his passport years back into the hands of the Home Office and was not issued with this ARC Home Office card ( which acts as a form of photo ID ) at the time and from what I have been reading, such persons in this situation have to produce such documentation if their EEA2 applications are to be processed. Can I get clarification on this particular matter?. How can an individual be asked to submit such documentation if the Home Office itself, is in possession of this information? Or do I once again have my wires twisted on this requirement?

In the EEA2 refusal letter it further goes on to mention that ‘ however, if you submit the evidence required your claim to have a right of residence under European law will be fully reconsidered’ and as such I have already sent my passport which I was asked to sent in the first place, although in my own opinion not clear enough. Finally yet importantly, does anyone have a clue as to how long this reconsideration process takes and any clues on appeal procedures, just to cover all basis?

Note : I do now know that on the EEA3 application the grounds for refusal stated are justifiable and affects me in no real way if I am unable to qualify for this documentation at the present moment but the matter that remains Is that of clarity within the facts i raised about the EEA2 application.

[Marco 72]

1. You have only been exercising Treaty rights since 2004. If you satisfy the other conditions (no convictions, no use of public funds, etc) you may qualify for ILR in 2009, under current rules. So, forget about form EEA3 until three years from now.

2. A Registration Certificate is a residence permit valid for five years. If you apply for one, your husband can get an EEA family permit valid for five years, which entitles him to do anything you can do, as long as you continue to exercise Treaty rights and he is married to you.

3. You should have included your passport with form EEA1, or your national Identity Card (if your country issues them). You don't need to do "in depth research", this is very clearly written on page 2 of the form. If you are unwilling to part yourself from your passport for so long, you can submit notarised photocopies of every page. A few weeks before your permit is granted, they will ask you to send in the actual passport. If you don't want to send a passport or ID card at all, you're not going to get your residence permit, and your husband is not going to get his.

4. Your husband's passport also needs to be enclosed.

[John]

1. You have only been exercising Treaty rights since 2004. If you satisfy the other conditions (no convictions, no use of public funds, etc) you may qualify for ILR in 2009, under current rules. So, forget about form EEA3 until three years from now.

I agree, and it is unfortunate that para 255B of the Immigration Rules does not help the OP. Had the person been in the UK on say a WP then the time prior to 01.05.04 would have counted towards the 5 years, but given the student status at that time, para 255B does not assist ... unfortunately.

So no Permanent Residence until 2009, I am afraid.

[breadfan]

I agree, and it is unfortunate that para 255B of the Immigration Rules does not help the OP.

What exactly did paragrah 255B state? Cuz as of 30th April 2006, here's what's changed:

4. Paragraphs 255 to 255B are deleted but this is subject to the transitional provision in paragraph 5.

5. Paragraphs 255 to 255B shall continue to apply for the purpose of determining an application made before 30th April 2006 for an endorsement under paragraph 255.

(source: http://www.ind.homeoffice.gov.uk/lawand ... angehc1053)

So considering whatever it did say no longer applies, and the fact that being a student (among other things) is considered as exercising your treaty rights, why wouldn't April 2007 be the right time to get the ILR? The only thing I can think of is if you can only be a student or worker for the consecutive 5 years. This is one point I myself am also trying to get clarification on.

You still need to send your and your husband's passports though. Don't mess around with trying to get around that. Fill in an EEA3 in March/April 2007 if you want an ILR (you don't need one if you don't want one) and an EEA4 for your husband. Just make sure you have been exercising your treaty rights for a consecutive 5 years for him to be eligible.

Regarding EEA1 and EEA2, it is also my understanding that you don't necessarily need to apply for the EEA1, though its said that the chances of your husband getting an ILR are better if you have an EEA1 (right of residence) since its further proof that you have been living/working in the UK.

But my question to you is this: if your husband has been in the country for 4-5 years and has recently applied for right of residence (EEA2) how is he legally in the country? I'm not aware of any other permit that allows residence for that amount of time (a family permit is only valid for a year, after which you normally apply for the 5 years right of residence EEA2 form).