if somebody knows about RoR(retained the right of residence)

[arunsharma]

Hi,

i’m non-European family member for last two and half year, and living in UK for last 2 years. Now my wife has got one better man than me (as she told me), and now she wants separation/divorce. It’s embarrassing for me to post this question here with shit feelings, but i don’t have any other choice left. For (retained the right of residence), IF i complete three years of marriage somehow, then what i need? what minimum documents i need for RoR? And any advice about RoR. Please don’t give advice to fix the relation. Because nothing is left.

thanks

[Obie]

Sorry to hear about your problem. That is every man's worst nightmere.

Unfortunately, it seems the marriage has not lasted for 3 years yet, therefore you do not qualify for ROR.

Have you got a child together?

[arunsharma]

no i have not got child (good for child), but i think i can complete 3 years somehow. so advice me with consideration of 3 years... thanks.

[mcovet]

You need to have been married for 3 years in total BEFORE she or yourself (I don't think you would initiate this yourself) initiates the divorce proceedings. This means before she goes to court, fills out a form (called a petition for divorce) and serves it on you. This is the point in time by which you should have been married for 3 years! So it's not when you get divorced absolutely but when she initiates proceedings. It would not matter in the slightest if you live apart for any period at all as long as you've been married legally for 3 years.

You would need to prove she was exercising treaty rights (same thing as you used to apply for your initial residence card presumably on form eea2) before initiating divorce and throughout the divorce proceedings (which could take a long time if you do not want a divorce yourself).

You would need to prove that you lived in UK for at least a year, so if you/she is working P60s and P45 are good enough proof (other proof can be used, bank statements, utility bills).

You would also need to show that YOU will be a worker/self-sufficient/self-employed after the divorce.

You would need her Passport/ID Card for the application (ideally so, if she doesn't want to provide it for the whole period of application, get a certified copy in her embassy which will suffice as a legal document)

This is a basic overview, so have a look and

[Obie]

You would need her Passport/ID Card for the application (ideally so, if she doesn't want to provide it for the whole period of application, get a certified copy in her embassy which will suffice as a legal document)

This is a basic overview, so have a look and

Not sure that is a requirement.

Apart from that, i agree with everything else.

[Obie]

See also OA (EEA - retained right of residence) Nigeria [2010] UKAIT 00003 and most recently Amos v Secretary of State for the Home Department [2011] EWCA Civ 552 (12 May 2011)

[arunsharma]

thanks mcovet and obie for your replies. here i would say that i do not have utility bills , as we were paying rent to landloard including everything thing, but i have her salary slips, bank statements, and WH smith tenancy agreement. are these things enough.

[bobobo]

that should be fine, I am sure ou must be having mobile bills or some sort of letters that have your address on them. Whatever you can get your hands on will be an added advantage.

thanks mcovet and obie for your replies. here i would say that i do not have utility bills , as we were paying rent to landloard including everything thing, but i have her salary slips, bank statements, and WH smith tenancy agreement. are these things enough.

[arunsharma]

thanks obie, you are so kind, and here another thing i will ask you about your these words in Post "EEA 4 help?" that " you have to show that your wife was working before the divorce was finalised" .

what does it mean exactly? what do you mean by divorce finalisation? actually i dont know about divorce procedure, so thats why i'm asking this question. So can you write me little bit that how divorce procedure will be procede and what i suppose to do regarding your words.

regards

[Obie]

My understanding is in England and Wales, there are 2 stages in the divorce process, you first get the decree nici and then Decree Absolute (marriage finally terminated).

Six weeks after Nici, either party could apply for absolute.

You will need to show that up to the Decree Absolute, your then spouse was exercising treaty right.

The documents are necessary then and not now.

[arunsharma]

thanks obie, thanks very much. here i would like to ask one more question about your words (just in case) , you wrote these words

"I am not asking you to divorce your spouse but if you dont see any future and if things have slipped out of hands then that is the best options for you as the HO does NOT recognise Seperate Status as an independent one. After Divorce apply using EEA4 as you are due PR" (Fri Jul 15, 2011, Retained right of residence by non eu citizen)

can you explain little bit your mean, i really would like know your mean, as i did not understand clearly.

regards

[bobobo]

Obie is saying that if you think that you cannot reconcile with your wife and things have gone really bad then Divorce is a good Option, If you are Married and Seperated, that is No good as HO still considers you Married until officially divorced

thanks obie, thanks very much. here i would like to ask one more question about your words (just in case) , you wrote these words

"I am not asking you to divorce your spouse but if you dont see any future and if things have slipped out of hands then that is the best options for you as the HO does NOT recognise Seperate Status as an independent one. After Divorce apply using EEA4 as you are due PR" (Fri Jul 15, 2011, Retained right of residence by non eu citizen)

can you explain little bit your mean, i really would like know your mean, as i did not understand clearly.

regards

[Obie]

Thanks bobobo. That is what i meant.

[arunsharma]

thanks bobobo and obie for your replies. here i would like to ask about some specific situation (if you can give some advice about it), regarding such situation

"Hello everyone,
I hope someone could give some advise.
I am non eu member, but married to an eu member for 5 years (since 2006), lived in UK for 4 years. i have a residence card member to an eu member. my current problem is we are not together any longer but have not applied for a divorce, my current visa expired in 2015, i want to get divorced and apply for the right to be here in uk.
please let me know if i can and if what procedure i should do, as i do travel for work and they always asks me where is my husband.
thank you (Post: Retained right of residence by non eu citizen, Thu Jul 14, 2011)"

"Hi There, thank you but i have already asked him, and he is not really wants to help me, even though he is in australia now, so i am a bit worrry (Post: Retained right of residence by non eu citizen, Fri Jul 15, 2011)"


what do you say about such situation?

if my wife is not happy to live with me anymore, after 3 years of marriage with using her treaty rights, and start living separately.

So it is better for me to live without divorce (as i understood). But if she leave the country someday for permanently, what about that? what i suppose to do then?

should i take the divorce as early as possible after 3 years of marriage (when she will start living separatelt, and she can leave the country as well)?

and if forget about divorce, then what i should do (what i will do after 5 years of RC) ?

looking forward for replies

regards

[Obie]

This post seems contradictory to your previous, in which you said you were married for less than 3 years.

If you have indeed been married since 2006 and have resided in UK for more than a year, you should be able to retain rights after divorce.

The residence permit simply confirms an existing right, it does not confer rights.

Essentially, a RC without the a right is no right.

[arunsharma]

dear obie or some other dear person locked my new question, which was different than this question, and i dont know why the question has been locked, wellllll. as i need to ask something more/else that

"my wife is gonna give/do the divorce, exact after 3 years, as she understood my situation. But it seems very strange, that somebody is gonna get the divorce exact after 3 years, and HO can smell my marriage, as marriage of convenience. Which is not at all, and now this question is making me upset. And i dont know, what to do. What do you think about my question, and what do you advice me about my situation? maybe your words can help me, otherwise i dont know that to do... "

and i dont know now who will see this question here, and will give answer because its already an old question for this forum. But if somebody knows something about this situation, and will give some answer, than i will be thankful.

[Obie]

No i am not convinced the two threads you opened are dissimilar, which i why i locked the later.
It is against forum rules to open multiple thread with similar question.

Furthermore it makes it difficult for the individual to get consistent and concise answer.

[arunsharma]

alright obie, so what do you think about my situation now? and other members as well....

[Guerro]

A case of suspected marriage of convenience should be discarded if:
 Where there is a child of the relationship. Children from previous relationships should be excluded except for Article 8 considerations.
 Where there is evidence to suggest cohabitation it is difficult to prove that the marriage is one of convenience.
 On the totality of evidence on file there seems for any other reason little prospect of sustaining a refusal at appeal.

For a case to be suspected as a marriage of convenience, it should meet the following criteria:
 The validity of the Certificate of Approval is less than normal.
 The application follows quickly after the marriage; and
 There is no previous evidence of the relationship.

plus one of the following:
3.8 Additional criteria
The applicant has had an alternative application recently refused (even if the application was in-time);
The applicant has had a previous record of attempts to gain entry or leave to remain (this could include an asylum application);
Reason to question the plausibility of the marriage (e.g. considerable difference in age or background of the couple, no common language);
There are clear and substantive reasons to doubt the validity of the documentary evidence produced in support of the application;
The applicant and the EEA national should generally intend to live together in the UK. This should be evidenced by a clear commitment from both parties that they will do so following the outcome of the application.
The applicant has earlier claimed to be married to someone else (and has not produced evidence of that marriage being dissolved);
A sum of money has been handed over in order for the marriage to be contracted (with the exception of money given in the form of a dowry in the cases of nationals of countries where the provision of a dowry is common practice).

[Obie]

Perhaps it might be adviced to seek legal assistance before proceeding. That might help hugely in putting you at ease

[vinny]

Useful to know:

40. The italics are mine. Ms Theophilus does not suggest that the procedural law of the Tribunal hindered her ability to prove her case. Rule 51 of the Asylum and Immigration Tribunal (Procedure) Rules 2005 authorises the Tribunal to "allow oral, documentary or other evidence to be given of any fact which appears to be relevant to an appeal" … even if that evidence would be inadmissible in a court of law. Furthermore, as Mr Eicke pointed out, Ms Theophilus could have applied under regulation 50 for a witness summons requiring her ex-husband to attend and give evidence as to whether or not he was and had been working. She did not do so. Nor did she seek a direction under rule 45 requiring the Secretary of State to provide any information necessary for the determination of her appeal. Indeed, she made no relevant application to the Tribunal. As Maurice Kay LJ pointed out in the course of argument, in these circumstances it is impossible to identify any error of law on the part of the Tribunal in this respect.

Update: The Tribunal Procedure (First-tier Tribunal) (Immigration and Asylum Chamber) Rules 2014

2005 > 2014
45 > 5
50 > 15
51 > 14

Basically, you need to ask the Home Office to get the data, give them very good reasons why they should do so. If that is refused (likely if there is no DV) then you are in a strong position to persuade a judge to issue directions.

[arunsharma]

dear vinny, thanks for your post, and i tried my best to understand this link, but the language is very complicated. i will be thankful to you if you describe in few words, the basic mean of this link. Plus, my problem is this, that my everything is OK, but one thing is making me upset, that i'm gonna get divorce after exactly 3 years, and this thing made me worried. what do you think about this Point?

[reda]

dear vinny, thanks for your post, and i tried my best to understand this link, but the language is very complicated. i will be thankful to you if you describe in few words, the basic mean of this link. Plus, my problem is this, that my everything is OK, but one thing is making me upset, that i'm gonna get divorce after exactly 3 years, and this thing made me worried. what do you think about this Point?

hi,
the law is exactly 3 years before you fill the petition application,so you wont be divorced till at least 3 months after that,so don't worry about that,if the HO suspect some thing they will ask about more proof of cohabitation(which in your case you have to submit as much as you have even separate letter in the same address )but if U still have doubt about it delay your divorce for 1or2 months after the 3 years.

[vinny]

dear vinny, thanks for your post, and i tried my best to understand this link, but the language is very complicated. i will be thankful to you if you describe in few words, the basic mean of this link. Plus, my problem is this, that my everything is OK, but one thing is making me upset, that i'm gonna get divorce after exactly 3 years, and this thing made me worried. what do you think about this Point?

If you are unable to prove that your ex-spouse was/is a qualified person or PR status due to your ex-spouse's lack of cooperation/contact, or whatever reasons, then there're certain procedures open to help you, as outlined.

[Obie]

We cannot predict what views the HO will take of your marriage.

However if they take an adverse view, they will be required to provide a basis for taking such views, and allow you to address them.

Simply applying for divorce on the 3 year of your marriage should not lead to the conclusion that your marriage is one of convenience.