Joining my girlfriend

[oscgv]

Hello fellow members, here's my situation:

I'm argentinian,

my girlfriend (english) had to go back to england a month ago,

we lived together for 1 year,
first in Paraguay, then in Argentina.

She's living in england now and we want to be together, I could go to her on a tourist visa but after six months I'd have to leave england, which is not what I intend to do, so what are my real options?
I already applied for jobs in england and got some job offers but these companies don't process work permits and since I'm on the IT field it's kind of impossible for a company in england to apply for a work permit for me cause they are so not short on IT staff. And I already did the highly skilled programme thing but I don't score enough, I have the experience and age and all but I'm not "nationally or internationally recognized" in my field and I don't make 50.000 pounds a year since I earn money in argentinian money which is 5-6 times lower than english money or economy.

We did think about getting married but it's not the way we want to do it, we love each other and do want to get married in the future but not right now just to comply with england's tight immigration rules, I've done some research on the marrying option and I sort of find it insulting that we have to ask permission to UK's government to get married, it's not just paperwork, it's actually asking authorization to do it, but anyway, it's the rules.
So to be short, do we have any real options?
Is it possible to register a civil partnership in England if we are straight? And if I go on a tourist visa, can I go to spain, or france or southern ireland for a few days and go back to england as tourist for another 6 months? Do I definately have to go all the way back to Argentina and come back to enter as a tourist again?

Thanks so much in advance!

[RobinLondon]

Why don't you look into the Unmarried Partners category, although you're going to need to prove that you've lived together already in a relationship akin to marriage for two years. Can you do that? Do you have enough supporting evidence?

A civil partnership is not meant for you. That's only for same-sex couples.

If you get married in Argentina, you don't need the UK government's "permission" to get married. Just get married there and apply for a two year spousal visa, and that's that. The certificate of authorisation (COA) deal is an annoyance and an added cost, but only applies if you get married in the UK. And don't feel too insulted. It was created to attempt to reduce the number of sham marriages and forced marriages that were occurring. That said, it does seem like a case of policy-creep.

The six month tourist visa is not a renewable option by simply hopping across the Channel to some European country of your choice. Or even Argentina. It's for six months, and then they expect you to go home and to stay there for a while (in practice, about a year or so?). You run the very high risk of being denied entry if they think you're trying to do something like live permanently as a tourist in the UK. On the practical side, since you're not allowed to work, they'll question how you're supporting yourself.

On a separate issue, if they catch you in some confusing situation about denying having an English girlfriend or conversely suspect that your stay is chiefly related to her, they might refuse entry as well. They'll send you home and tell you to get the proper visa.

What this all boils down to is that international relationships are very difficult. I've had the same experience. The challenge is not to get so irritated by the rules, but to try to move within them. It seems like the WP/HSMP option doesn't work for you, so you may have to try a student/spouse/unmarried partner route that has a greater likelihood of success.

[Dawie]

Have you explored the option of obtaining Spanish or Italian citizenship? Many Argentinians are entitled to this by way of having parents, grandparents or even great-grandparents being born in Italy or Spain.

Of course once you have Spanish or Italian citizenship you will be able to freely live in the UK.

[oscgv]

Thanks for the info RobinLondon,
I've looked into the unmarried partner option, but it's just like a tourist visa: no work and 6 months, plus proving that we lived together for 2 years which hasn't happened, we lived together for 1 year and I can only prove we lived together in argentina, the first four months in paraguay are quite difficult to prove.
BTW, what's evidence? I read it's letters or bills sent to the same address, or emails? How is it in practice? How do you prove your emails?
Anyway I guess our only option is to get married, which I'm not very happy with cause like I said before, we do want to get married, but not just now and in a somehow forced way.
Getting married in argentina or in UK would be kind of the same moneywise since plain ticket and other stuff for my girlfriend or paying all the fees, I don't know.
I asked about civil partnerships between us cause in Argentina you can register a civil partnership whether you are straight or gay, but I guess a straight civil partnership made in Argentina won't do it for UK's immigration control.

Dawie, you are right and I've already tried that, I have french and italian ascendancy but the bad news is my italian grandmother can't pass me her citizenship cause she's a woman and she was born before 1948, it sounds weird but that's what the italian law says.
And my french ancestors are too far up in the genealogy tree for me to apply for it.
If my parents would've done it, getting european papers, it would be possible for me but noone care about it before me!
And no spanish ascendancy, at least not before 4 or 5 generations.

Just one last question, if I go to england before the end of this year, as a visitor/tourist, then after 6 months I come back to argentina for 1 o 2 months and apply for a fiancé visa to go back to england, will it be dodgy for me to explain it? I mean if there's only a window of 2 months between the end of my tourist visa and the begining of a possible fiance visa, will the home office deny it for some reason? Thank you very much!

[toby]

I've looked into the unmarried partner option, but it's just like a tourist visa: no work and 6 months

No, an unmarried partner visa is for 2 years and entitles you to work.

[Rogerio]

I've looked into the unmarried partner option, but it's just like a tourist visa: no work and 6 months

No, an unmarried partner visa is for 2 years and entitles you to work.

Exactly right - bear in mind that to be able to apply for the UP visa, you have to be cohabiting for 2 years, at a minimum, on the day the application is lodged.

You have to have proof of your relationship during these 2 years (utility bills, joint bank accounts, letters to the same address, photographs, knowing about each other's personal circumstances, joint rental agreements, etc).

As you don't have 2 years of cohabitation, you are not (yet) entitled to apply for the UP visa. Many people would get round this situation by enrolling in a 1 or 2 year course in the UK, living together for that period, getting the evidence together, and then lodge the application after the 2 years.

Just one last question, if I go to england before the end of this year, as a visitor/tourist, then after 6 months I come back to argentina for 1 o 2 months and apply for a fiancé visa to go back to england, will it be dodgy for me to explain it? I mean if there's only a window of 2 months between the end of my tourist visa and the begining of a possible fiance visa, will the home office deny it for some reason? Thank you very much!

In theory, no. But I would not recommend that you do anything which is not truthful - if you come as a tourist, what will you say to the Immigration Officer? That you came to stay with your girlfriend? You will probably be put on the first flght back to Argentina. And if you say you will be doing touristy things, you will be lying. If you want to go down the fiance visa, then do it properly.

For more information on the Unmarried Partner visa category in the Home Office website.

Have you explored the option of obtaining Spanish or Italian citizenship? Many Argentinians are entitled to this by way of having parents, grandparents or even great-grandparents being born in Italy or Spain.

Of course once you have Spanish or Italian citizenship you will be able to freely live in the UK.

Absolutely spot on, and always possible, and a dream that many Latin Americans have to go the opposite way that their forefathers did when the situation in Europe was not good and the newland was promising.

However this can normally takes 3 to 4 years in Latin America for process to be approved (provided documentation is okay, and person is entitled, of course). Many of us (Latins) have roots in Europe, but ship passenger lists have been lost, spelling of names have been changed, and documentation is not always easy to find. Always a possibility though.

Regards,

Rogerio

[oscgv]

Thanks Toby and Rogerio.
You are both right, unmarried partner visa does give you 2 years and right to work, I guess I was confused but I did check the requirements for all the types of visa I could apply for and as Rogelio says, I need evidence we've been living together for 2 years and it's not our case.
My girlfriend and I were talking about this and we figured I could just enroll for a course in england (which could be really expensive since I'm not an EU citizen so I'd have to pay crazy money to enroll) so I can live there for more than six months and eventually apply for an unmarried partner visa, only thing is, the only proof of us living together in argentina is just a couple of letters for her from england and my bills sent to the same address, I do have a copy of a contract of a flat rental for a two months period stating we are both living in it, signed by the owner of the flat, is this legal enough? after that we lived in a houseshare with no contracts and the bills are all under my name since because she's english and has no argentinian ID whatsoever (she was on a tourist visa all the time, renewed four times), she can't hire any services in this country so her phone line and other stuff are all under my name. Photos we have, but how can you prove the dates of them unless you are holding a newspaper in it?
And then I could manage to get salary slips from her former employer here in argentina, she was paid in cash but I can get a letter from them stating she worked for them for 5 months in buenos aires.
So is this enough proof of us living together in buenos aires for the first 8 months? I also have the bus tickets from paraguay to buenos aires and her passport stamped with visas for paraguay and argentina.
Thanks again for your help, I'm sorry it became a very long post again! Just one more thing, any links for degree level institutes in england, preferably in london? Thanks a million!

[oscgv]

and about the european passport rogelio, this is way I can't go that way:
awie, you are right and I've already tried that, I have french and italian ascendancy but the bad news is my italian grandmother can't pass me her citizenship cause she's a woman and she was born before 1948, it sounds weird but that's what the italian law says.
And my french ancestors are too far up in the genealogy tree (great grandparents) for me to apply for it.
And no spanish ascendancy, at least not before 4 or 5 generations.

[Rogerio]

I could just enroll for a course in england (which could be really expensive since I'm not an EU citizen so I'd have to pay crazy money to enroll)

You would not pay a lot of money for English courses - you could try and sit for the First Certificate Exam (Cambridge University) or Proficiency (also Cambridge University). These courses don't have "EU" and non-EU fees. There are many many courses like these - check courses which are accreditted by the British Council - www.britcoun.org - also depending on your current educational status, you could apply for a British Council scholarship for a post graduation - the scholarship is called Chevening scholarship - you can find out details of such scholarship in the British Council website I gave you. I am sure that the Argentinian goverrnment also provides scholarships in certain areas to certain students. So, if instead of English you'd like to take a postgraduation course (provided you have graduated and have had some work experience), and depending on your line of work, this could be the way to go about it.

only thing is, the only proof of us living together in argentina is just a couple of letters for her from england and my bills sent to the same address, I do have a copy of a contract of a flat rental for a two months period stating we are both living in it, signed by the owner of the flat, is this legal enough?

Whatever proof you have is proof enough - but still you fall short of the 2 year period. You will still have to accumulate the remaining 1 year four months... make sure you keep sending emails to each other and making phone calls whilst you're apart, and keep proof of that - so that they see that the relationship is continuing.

Photos we have, but how can you prove the dates of them unless you are holding a newspaper in it?
And then I could manage to get salary slips from her former employer here in argentina, she was paid in cash but I can get a letter from them stating she worked for them for 5 months in buenos aires.
So is this enough proof of us living together in buenos aires for the first 8 months?

It probably is - regarding photos, provided they are in substantially different places and it's obvious you have done a lot of travelling together you dont have to have the dates stamped on them, or "holding newspapers". This is just one more way to prove you have been together. The letter from the employer will help as well, to establish she was in Argentina from xx to yy dates.

I also have the bus tickets from paraguay to buenos aires and her passport stamped with visas for paraguay and argentina.
Thanks again for your help, I'm sorry it became a very long post again! Just one more thing, any links for degree level institutes in england, preferably in london? Thanks a million!

Yes, this does help.

and about the european passport rogelio, this is way I can't go that way:
awie, you are right and I've already tried that, I have french and italian ascendancy but the bad news is my italian grandmother can't pass me her citizenship cause she's a woman and she was born before 1948, it sounds weird but that's what the italian law says.
And my french ancestors are too far up in the genealogy tree (great grandparents) for me to apply for it.
And no spanish ascendancy, at least not before 4 or 5 generations.

I was not disagreeing - I was only making a point that IF you had the documentation and IF you were ellegible, this would take some time to complete.

All the best,

RogeRio, with an "R"... That's the Portuguese spelling... not the Spanish one

[Dawie]

Rogerio, how do you manage to spell "Rogerio" without an r?

Ogerio?
Rogeio?
Ogeio?

[Rogerio]

rogelio, this is way I can't go that way:

The above form is the Spanish version... Roge"r"io is the Portuguese version.

R

[oscgv]

rogelio, this is way I can't go that way:

The above form is the Spanish version... Roge"r"io is the Portuguese version.

R

Hehe and also, that's the "spanish" spelling for "Why", I guess I could just enrol on an english course!

Thanks for all the tips Rogerio! And sorry for the mispelled name, muito brigado!

[Rogerio]

All in good humour of course.

Good luck matey!

R