Child and Working Tax Credits - UK Born Baby

aj77 · Post by **aj77** » Wed Jul 21, 2004 2:23 pm

I came on HSMP VISA on 23rd of DEC,2003 with my wife .My daughter born on 22nd of January,2004 in UK.I started my first job as Security officer on 2nd of February,2004.I applied for child Tax credit and working tax credit on 17th of March ,2004 on the advice of a person sitting in the office of inlandrevenue as I was not sure whether I am eligible for this or not.Later I realised that CHILD TAX CREDIT and Working Tax credit replaced Working Family Tax credit which was public fund. But since my daughter was born here I am doubtful still as CHILD TAX CREDIT and WORKING TAX CREDIT has been Approved for me they are sending me that money.I called them and told them that I can t use Public fund ,on which grounds they approved my application but that person couldn t satisfy me properly.
Right now As I am getting that CREDITS, can they create problem while extending my visa for next 3 years which is due to extend in the month of Nov,2004.I need the professional and comprehensive advice so that I can easily extend my visa for next 3 years. I will be thankful for your professional quick reply.Thank you

hk_007 · Post by **hk_007** » Wed Jul 21, 2004 3:55 pm

From the way I see it you should write to Inland Revenue explaining your situtation and request them to take appropriate steps. This could mean termination of tax credit and reclaiming what has been given so far. Alternatively, if you are eligible they should confirm the same in writing and you will continue to benefit. Ensure that all your correspondence is by "signed for" delivery. This way at a later stage you can always prove that these funds were obtained with the full blessing of Inland Revenue.

tvt · Post by **tvt** » Wed Jul 21, 2004 4:41 pm

Both tax credits are NOT on the list of "Public Funds".

Chess · Post by **Chess** » Wed Jul 21, 2004 4:48 pm

tnavon wrote:Both tax credits are NOT on the list of "Public Funds".

TVT, can you provide us with a link supporting the above statement - many thanx as usual

hk_007 · Post by **hk_007** » Wed Jul 21, 2004 5:05 pm

In fact child tax credit and and working tax credit are considered to be public funds. See http://www.ukvisas.gov.uk/servlet/Front ... 8721085371

tvt · Post by **tvt** » Wed Jul 21, 2004 5:11 pm

What really matters is what the Immigration Rules themselves say:

http://www.ind.homeoffice.gov.uk/ind/en ... ction.html

Go to the "Public Funds" definition.

hk_007 · Post by **hk_007** » Wed Jul 21, 2004 5:43 pm

Agreed these two terms are not included under public funds definition. Though I wonder when that page was last updated, since these rules are in a constant flux. The link I provided was updated on 28/06/04. However, if IR takes the view that CTC and WTC are not public funds, which is a strong possiblity since arshadjaved continues to get it after bringing it to IR's notice then its good for all of us including those on Work Permit who have "no recourse to public funds". But as I suggested earlier one will be on the safe side if one gets it in writing from the revelant department.

aj77 · Post by **aj77** » Wed Jul 21, 2004 8:10 pm

Thank you for the guys who shared their views and provide some useful information.but I would like to tell couple of things here.(i)Now ,while fulfilling the application for CTC and WTC ,there is a question there that"are you subject to immigration control? yes or No". While when I applied on March 17 that question wasn t there.This also confirmed by a person from inland revenue that that question has been added some days ago because some people were getting that benfit even though they were subject to immigration control.
(ii) I got the HSMP VISA when scoring points were 75 and at that time CTC and WTC were not in the public fund but Working family tax Credits were included in the public fund. In the latest update issued on 1st of Nov, in Q&A page they define the public fund and said that CHILD TAX CREDIT and WORKING TAX credit will soon become public fund.
Now according to my understanding CTC and WTC are public funds as we are getting these from Govt for Financial support which we are not allowed.
And one more thing I would like to get views that since WTC and CTC has been replaced by working family Tax credit. Can we still say that we are not getting family working tax credit and CTC and WTC are not in the definition of Public fund so we are allowed for this?Thank you for your comments

tvt · Post by **tvt** » Thu Jul 22, 2004 9:15 am

It is only a matter of time until WTC & CTC are on the "Public Funds" list.

I would still stress that regardless of any immigration issue, claiming of CTC / WTC by individuals who are subject to Immigration Control is a tax offence.

hk_007 · Post by **hk_007** » Thu Jul 22, 2004 12:57 pm

Since CTC and WTC have replaced children's tax credit and working families tax credit, respectively, both of which were public funds and not available to those subject to immigration control, it stands to reason CTC/WTC are public funds.

tvt · Post by **tvt** » Thu Jul 22, 2004 12:58 pm

Children's Tax Credit was NEVER a public fund.

aj77 · Post by **aj77** » Fri Jul 23, 2004 9:43 pm

With the discussion I concluded that CTC and WTC are public funds but I couldn t understand why immigration Department avoided to write CTC and WTC as Public funds straightaway in their policy and in the definition of Public fund.Any why they approved My application though they had my and wife s NIC No.alongwith all other details.Any comments?

aj77 · Post by **aj77** » Tue Jul 27, 2004 11:35 pm

Still waiting for comments and suggestions from Moderators and senior members about my question.Thank you

Chess · Post by **Chess** » Wed Aug 11, 2004 11:08 am

Guyz,

I have tried to unravell the issue of CTC and WTC but I am finding conflicting information - the overwhelming conclusion is that CTC and WTC are public funds..

..Now obviously Arshadjaveed has already obtained this benefit - and presumably He will have to tick the box for having claimed Public Funds ( a bit nerve bursting

)!!!

Notwithstanding the above - How can HO prove that he has / has not been claiming CTC/WTC? (obviously with increasing collaboration between IR and HO this scenario may change soon!!)

I will update the forum of my findins soon

Chess · Post by **Chess** » Wed Aug 11, 2004 11:29 am

tnavon wrote:It is only a matter of time until WTC & CTC are on the "Public Funds" list.

I would still stress that regardless of any immigration issue, claiming of CTC / WTC by individuals who are subject to Immigration Control is a tax offence.

Guidance in the Q&A area of the HSMP forms (applicable after 02/07/2004) states that WTC and CTC will shortly be made 'Public Funds' - until such a time when HO categorically states that CTC and WTC are public funds then 'feel free' to claim it (only my opinion)

hk_007 · Post by **hk_007** » Wed Aug 11, 2004 1:19 pm

Guidance for completing FLR(IED) form (valid from April 01, 2004) states that:

The following are regarded as Public Funds under the Immigration Rules:
Housing and homelessness assistance;
Attendance allowance;
Severe disablement allowance;
Invalid care allowance;
Disability living allowance;
Income support;
Working families? tax credit;
Disabled person?s tax credit;
A social fund payment;
Council tax benefit;
Child benefit;
Income-based jobseeker?s allowance; and
Housing benefit.

Thus, one will have to acknowledge that public funds have been claimed (CTC & WTC).

tvt · Post by **tvt** » Wed Aug 11, 2004 2:21 pm

This issue has been fully exhausted. Please don't post any repetitive posts.

aj77 · Post by **aj77** » Wed Aug 11, 2004 11:29 pm

I read the discussion of different Members and moderators but I found contradictory opinions.Most of the members once said it is Public Fund and on the next post of same member,he said it is not public fund.I would request Tnavon and Chess to give their final comprehensive comments about these that are these:
Public Funds or not.Yes or no?.
One should claim those ?yes or No?.
These Awards approved to me as Public Fund or as Tax Awards?

Chess stated that "in Q&A for the guidance of HSMP forms(applicable after 02/07/2004) while my understanding is policy issued on 1st of Nov, 2003.
Can Chess give me some hint from where he noted that date of (02/07/04).Thank You

Chess · Post by **Chess** » Thu Aug 12, 2004 8:39 am

Arhad

Yes, WTC and CTC are Public Funds

"The following forms and guidance are valid for applications made on or after 2 July 2004. ..."

extract from the link below:
http://www.workingintheuk.gov.uk/workin ... forms.html

aj77 · Post by **aj77** » Thu Aug 12, 2004 9:37 pm

Can anyone tell me on which date they became public Fund ?.Because when I applied for claim of year 2003,those were not subject to immigration control.And for this reason ,they approved my claim.And any suggestion what should I do now.Every suggestion and participation will be welcomed warmly.Thank You.

Chess · Post by **Chess** » Fri Aug 13, 2004 8:56 am

Square - Information as requested (you know the author from writing style

)

Yes the matter of CTC and WFTC has cropped up in detail on the forum. I believe it came down to that there was no conclusive response as it was subject to the claimants situation both from an immigration perspective, meeting the habitual residence requirements and earned income.

My understanding is that WFTC includes the enhanced component of CTC where there are kids ie. you need to claim WFTC to get CTC but if you don't qualify due to earning too much but still have child care costs then you only get the CTC. Issue here is that WFTC is a public fund. However since you are not getting it as you have a high income then by default you are not in breach of the 'no recourse rule'. Those on HSMP or WP are unlikely to qualify for WFTC but may very well get CTC.

I am not aware of case law (not an area I have really looked into) but IMHO the fact that its a credit offset against your tax code as opposed to an income is in an applicant's favour were there to be immigration issues. Further it can be argued that it is not explicitly listed on the evergrowing list of 'public funds'.

Hope that helps - a definitive answer is best sourced from the Inland Revenue.

tibs · Post by **tibs** » Fri Aug 13, 2004 10:06 am

Chess,

Maybe I am thick. Please could you let us know the source of this quote ?

Thanks
tibs

Chess · Post by **Chess** » Fri Aug 13, 2004 10:37 am

Tibs,

The source is another forum member who expressed his/her views on this 'vague' subject. Clearly s/he is not an expert in this field - as s/he requested me to seek furtther advise...

...I am sure many more members will give their opinions

tvt · Post by **tvt** » Fri Aug 13, 2004 10:40 am

"The Source" - I like it.

Chess · Post by **Chess** » Fri Aug 13, 2004 10:49 am

tnavon wrote:"The Source" - I like it.

TVT,....

You like the 'source' - any particular reason?

I hope you are following the Football at the Olympics - I think your lot beat Serbia 6-0

Nice weekend mate

Immigrationboards.com: Immigration, work visa and work permit discussion board

Child and Working Tax Credits - UK Born Baby

Child and Working Tax Credits - UK Born Baby