14 years long residency/SEGS/WP

[tammi]

Hi guys

I applied for indefinite leave to remain in the UK based on 14years residency. I made this application in 2004 and everytime I call the HO, I am told that my application is still awaiting further consideration and they cannot tell me when my application will be looked at.

The problem that I have now is that I have been out of work since August and I cannot get a new job as my application is still not decided.
At this point, I am looking for other options that may be available to me as I need a job to survive.

I am ACCA (accounting proffesion) qualified and I completed an Msc early this year, I received my result in July this year.

Are the option of either a Work permit program, SEGS or HSMP applicable in my situation.

Many thanks

[Jeff Albright]

Unfortunately, these types of application (10 and 14 years rule) usually take a long time to decide - a few years at least. There are no set deadlines for the consideration of these applications and they are treated on a "non-priority" basis.
You might wish to make a complaint to the IND Customer Focus Team (complaints unit) regarding the delay. Refer to the IND website for more details how to do that.
Involving your MP might also put a priority accent on your application.

If you qualify for HSMP/WP/SEGS it is open for you to apply but it is unlikely you will get a FLR(IED) in-country on that basis, as you have no current LTR. Furthermore, FLR(IED) is a limited leave to remain only.

Good luck!

[JAJ]

Unfortunately, these types of application (10 and 14 years rule) usually take a long time to decide - a few years at least.

I don't think that comment applies to applications under the 10 year rule.

[Jeff Albright]

I don't think that comment applies to applications under the 10 year rule.

Unfortunately, it does.

[JAJ]

I don't think that comment applies to applications under the 10 year rule.

Unfortunately, it does.

Some people have had ILR granted same day at a PEO. Are you sure you're not referring to the time when the 10 year rule was a concession outside the Immigration Rules?

[Jeff Albright]

Some people have had ILR granted same day at a PEO. Are you sure you're not referring to the time when the 10 year rule was a concession outside the Immigration Rules?

It depends. If you have all the visa stamps in your passport continuously for 10 years then it will probably be ok, just pay half a grand and see those guys at Lunar House. But if they feel that something needs checking against their records, this can take anything from weeks until years but the fee will not be refunded.
It all depends on the individual circumstances.

[tammi]

Why does it takes this long to process my application. I submitted quite a lot of evidence to prove that I was in the country during the 14yrs (inc. certificates, council tax bills, bank statementst, HO correspondence, yearly p60's etc).

Also does anyone know, on average how long it takes to process the application? A right now, save contacting my MP and complaining, I don't know what else to do as I'm running out of funds

Thanks

[John]

You mention your MP. That is exactly what you should be doing ... contacting your MP and asking him/her to make enquiries about why it is taking so long.

[Jeff Albright]

Why does it takes this long to process my application. I submitted quite a lot of evidence to prove that I was in the country during the 14yrs (inc. certificates, council tax bills, bank statementst, HO correspondence, yearly p60's etc).

It is frustrating but this is how it is. There are only a handful of staff and dozens of thousands of applications. I have read that in average one caseworker decides 4 cases per day. You can work out how long it takes to deal with all of them. Note the cases they have are not just first time applications - many caseworkers deal with the follow up applications and appeals. It might be that there are just one or two caseworkers that deal with 14 year rule cases and these cases are not easy and straightforward because ILR on 14 year rule is not automatic and checks have to be made, your documentation scrutinised, decision QAd by Senior Caseworkers, letters typed, etc. When a caseworker assigned to your case makes a preliminary decision, your file is passed around the unit where it is held and other caseworkers including Senior ones minute your file with their comments. It is not an easy and straightforward procedure. Lots of work is involved.

Also does anyone know, on average how long it takes to process the application? A right now, save contacting my MP and complaining, I don't know what else to do as I'm running out of funds

No one can tell. All you can do is either contact your MP, try to establish where your file is held and who is dealing with it (it is difficult because IND will not disclose this information) and contact them directly. Normally, you can guess the e-mail if you know the name of the caseworker who has your file. They usually reply by e-mail quite quickly.
When I contacted the Operations Manager of the unit where my file is held, he replied very nicely within 45 minutes. But it took me several months, plenty of investigations and intelligence to scout out which unit has my file and who is working on it + the names of their managers!

Good luck!

[tammi]

Thanks you Jeff,

I can now understand why the takes a long time to process the applications and empathise with the situation. I have a couple of questions pls:

1. If an application has been looked at by a caseworker and passed on to another, is this normally a good or bad thing??. ie. Does it mean that the initial caseworker is happy with their findings and have passed the case on to a senior staff for approval, or is it that they are not satisfied and have passed on the file for a second opinion?

2.There is a myth that the HO do not like it when they are being contacted and hounded by applicants & MPs. This upsets them and gets them to refuse the application with silly reasons.

How true is that.

thank you

[Jeff Albright]

1. If an application has been looked at by a caseworker and passed on to another, is this normally a good or bad thing??

It is just a procedure in terms of quality control.

ie. Does it mean that the initial caseworker is happy with their findings and have passed the case on to a senior staff for approval, or is it that they are not satisfied and have passed on the file for a second opinion?

It probably depends on the Unit working on your case. It is common that AOs usually consider the case, propose a decision, draft the paperwork and pass your file to SCW for approval. If the SCW gives it a go ahead, the file is returned to AO who issue the paperwork to you. The SCW may amend, remove statements or change a decision.
In my case, AO who dealt with my application made several errors but no one of the other members of staff including the SCW picked it up. I pointed this out to them, wrote a complaint to Senior Executive Officer of the unit (Deputy Chief Caseworker) and he has passed my file back to the Casework group for re-consideration with the view of all the issues I raised.

2.There is a myth that the HO do not like it when they are being contacted and hounded by applicants & MPs. This upsets them and gets them to refuse the application with silly reasons.
How true is that.

Not true at all. Most of the HO staff are reasonable and understanding people. The Home Office has the policy of not disclosing any contact details of their staff due to the security reasons because of the sensitive nature of work they do.
However, if you do know who works on your file and reasonably contact them about something (of course no nuisance calls or every day e-mails, etc) - it is only taken on your favour. It only means that you are committed to resolving your case. This is always appreciated and you will almost certainly get feedback on your comments/points you raise. The only problem it always takes a long time.

[tammi]

Thank you Jeff,

That's quite helpful

[OL7MAX]

There are only a handful of staff and dozens of thousands of applications. ....Lots of work is involved.

I know you mean that as an explanation and this post is not meant as a criticism of you, but if the above is the reason the home office give, what kind of pathetic excuse is that?

As someone who runs private businesses I'm accustomed to delivering what customers pay for. If I charged people hundreds of pounds for what is essentially equivalent to a few hours worth of work and didn't deliver on it for two years ... I'd be locked up.

If my business were a monopoly not subject to normal anti-monopoly legislation, AND I could charge people whatever the hell I wanted, the govt would be breathing down my neck every second of every day. There'd be a million restrictions on me and constant assessments of how I'm "delivering". If I had the temerity to sit on an application for two years my contract would have been terminated. But this total incompetence is acceptable from a government department? Why? Because they are dealing with applications for stay and the miserable applicants shouldn't really expect value for money?

When you have a thriving business with large revenue flow and it's expanding, you hire more staff. "Only a handful of staff" is a valid excuse if they are performing the application vetting process gratis. Otherwise it's a pathetic whine from an incompetent department.

[Aloevera2]

OL7MAX - well said its not a free service . And these long delays affect people lives .
How can you justfy 2 years for 1 application

(An official inquiry has found a "chain of events" linking David Blunkett to the speeding up of a visa application by his ex-lover Kimberly Quinn's nanny.........................................

Former Treasury adviser Sir Alan Budd said the application for leave to remain in the UK was processed in 52 days - 120 days faster than average)

There are only a handful of staff and dozens of thousands of applications. ....Lots of work is involved.

I know you mean that as an explanation and this post is not meant as a criticism of you, but if the above is the reason the home office give, what kind of pathetic excuse is that?

As someone who runs private businesses I'm accustomed to delivering what customers pay for. If I charged people hundreds of pounds for what is essentially equivalent to a few hours worth of work and didn't deliver on it for two years ... I'd be locked up.

If my business were a monopoly not subject to normal anti-monopoly legislation, AND I could charge people whatever the hell I wanted, the govt would be breathing down my neck every second of every day. There'd be a million restrictions on me and constant assessments of how I'm "delivering". If I had the temerity to sit on an application for two years my contract would have been terminated. But this total incompetence is acceptable from a government department? Why? Because they are dealing with applications for stay and the miserable applicants shouldn't really expect value for money?

When you have a thriving business with large revenue flow and it's expanding, you hire more staff. "Only a handful of staff" is a valid excuse if they are performing the application vetting process gratis. Otherwise it's a pathetic whine from an incompetent department.

[tammi]

Dear board.

A letter from my MP has not helped. I have drafted this letter to the Home office. I would apreciate your comment on this

Dear Sir/Madam,

I applied for indefinite leave to remain - based on 14yr long residency, through my solicitor in July 2004 and are unfortunately still awaiting a reply from you. My solicitor and MP also wrote two letters to you in 2006, but we have not received a reply to either of the two letters.

The purpose of this letter firstly, is to ask you if you need further information/documents to be sent to you to assist you with reaching a prompt decision.

Secondly, as a result of the delay in processing the application, I am faced with serious financial hardship as I need to show prove of eligibility to work and I hereby wish to request for a letter that says that I have permission to work in the United Kingdom to be sent to me.

I thank you for your assistance in this matter

[Jeff Albright]

Well, it all fell on deaf ears, as I told you. The same happened to me until I found where my file was held and addressed my complaint directly the the head of that unit.
My suggestions:

- Call the INEB and ask them to tell you precisely where you file is held and the status of your application.
- Write an operational complaint to the INDCU. Refer to the IND website on how to do that. You can submit it by e-mail.
- Contact me with these details (you can send me a ppm) and I will give you some further information where to send your further correspondence.

All the best

[OL7MAX]

Jeff, I've read your previous excellent posts (in other threads) on using the proactive approach. May I ask, what do you feel is a reasonable time to wait before the applicant tracks down location of case and files appropriate complaint?

[JamesC]

The Home Office does not have enough staff to cope for many reasons.

People who apply under 14 year rule have overstayed in the UK. They have broken the immigration rules and they know they have.

You can't put the blame on the IND but on people who come to UK, do not obey the rules and who decided to stay here illegally. They are guilty of deception amongst other things.

Why should a person who has overstayd in the UK for 14 years be treated as a priority compared to a person who has come here, with the correct entry clearance and has been clear from the start. If you don't like it, you should have adhered to the rules. Also, you made a life ans started a business/took a job in the full knowledge that your status was adverse.

The money taken is not for profit, rather than to cover the costs of dealing with the applications. I assure you, £335 pounds (you can't pay for the premium service £500 for 14 year long residency by the way) does not cover the costs at all.

Blame the people who break the rules, not the people who enforce them.

J

[tammi]

Thank you Jeff.

I called the INEB today and they blatantly refused to give me any of the information I requested for. All the lady kept telling me was, " all I can tell you right now is that your case is awaiting further consideration. I cannot give you any more information"

Can I go ahead and write the complaint letter to INDCU anyway?

thank you

[Jeff Albright]

May I ask, what do you feel is a reasonable time to wait before the applicant tracks down location of case and files appropriate complaint?

In my view, it entirely depends on the type of situation, type of application and immigration history of the concerned.
I would start chasing up the matter if the standard FLR application is delayed for more than 3-6 months if that application was straightforward and correctly made.
I would start chasing up if SET(O) application is delayed for more than 12 months. I would start chasing if a concessionary application outside the rules is delayed more than 18-24 months (such as Human Rights, 7 years child concession, DP3/96).
However, again, it all depends on the entire set of circumstances. For example, if it turns out that the IND is themself guilty of some sort of maladministration, loss of files, data, etc... I would press hard immediately after such things come up.

AIT and other courts usually view the delays dealing with asylum cases over 3-4 years as "unreasonable". The High Court has recently found that the delay in dealing with FLR(O) application for 2 years is also unreasonable. As there are no timescales officially set by the Home Office for the consideration of applications, these can be taken as the maximum deadlines, after which you have every right to file a formal complaint about the poor quality of service.

"Chasing up" does not mean to "moan". You are politely and nicely asking if the IND could move the file to the priority queue. You can do it through your MP, file a complaint to the INDCU but the most effective approach, from my experience, is writing directly to a manager of the unit where the file is held, however, it is almost impossible to obtain the information from the IND themselves about the exact whereabouts of file, let alone any contact details of that unit. You need to know someone working there or need access to some other resources.

[Jeff Albright]

Can I go ahead and write the complaint letter to INDCU anyway?

Yeah, you can do that. Just write a polite letter. The INDCU will respond for sure.
Also, at the same time, order a copy of your file from Subject Access bureau. Refer to the IND website on how to do that.
From where you will be able to see where you file recently was and might even find the name of the department where it is being held, although they tend to black that information out but sometimes they may miss something very interesting...

[OL7MAX]

Thanks for the informative answer, Jeff. I agree that doing it politely is the better approach. Perhaps solicitors have more luck tracking down files; the HO may be more amenable to disclosing to legal reps.

Why should a person who has overstayd in the UK for 14 years be treated as a priority compared to a person who has come here with the correct entry clearance

If you are less emotional about it and more objective you may find that I make no such claim for "priority" treatment. Just "fair" treatment. But, I suppose, the "scum of the earth" aren't entittled to fair?

You can't put the blame on the IND but on people who come to UK, do not obey the rules and who decided to stay here illegally. They are guilty of deception amongst other things.

... demonstrates a great deal of ignorance. I, for one, obeyed every rule, deceived absolutely nobody but got "stuck" here against my will. I hated this country and tried every means to get out (my story is available in my first thread if you care to look). Generalisations of deception are bigoted, myopic, and demonstrate ignorance of the myriad situtations that could lead to a 14 year application. 30% of cases my solicitor is dealing with at present relate to people who were brought here illegally when they were kids. They committed no crime themselves. What would you prefer to do to them? Bring back flogging?

The Home Office does not have enough staff to cope for many reasons.

No, not many reasons. Just one: incompetence. Or, to put that in the words of the HO minister, the HO is not fit for purpose.

The money taken is not for profit, rather than to cover the costs of dealing with the applications. I assure you, £335 pounds (you can't pay for the premium service £500 for 14 year long residency by the way) does not cover the costs at all.

Please provide me the basis of your expertise on these time costings; otherwise I have no reason to accept your "assurances" and will continue to believe that this part of the HO is as incompetent as other parts. Please also provide the basis for your claim that this part of the HO is profit-neutral.

BTW, the "premium" service isn't that at all. Read the small print again. In fact, for most 14 year applications it's a waste of time.

If you don't like it, you should have adhered to the rules.

So, as a trader you can cheat me, as a thug you can beat me up, as a murderer you can chop my head off and it's all acceptable because of my status? The fees are charged to perform a job. Whether that job is paving my drive or processing my papers - do the job I paid you for! Or, if it's taking too long, have the decency to refund me or tell me what the holdup is about.

[JamesC]

I work for the Home Office so obviously know more than you (none of the usual civil servant Rhetoric, thanks!). Sure, why should we make people pay? Let's deal with applications for free shall we? The IND is entitled to recover the costs in deciding applications just like anyone else. If we don't charge, the tax-payer ends up paying more.

No, the problem isn't the staff but lack of resources to deal with the impossible amount of people who simply think they don’t have to adhere to the immigration rules.

The IND is not to blame, the people who have breached their conditions are. There are so many people who have applied and you are in a queue because of them, not due to any incompetence of the IND.

You may have had exceptional reasons for overstaying your visa, but did you have to set up a business, have 3 kids and get married in the knowledge that you were here illegally. I think not.

You must sit tight and think yourself lucky you are allowed to continue working. If what you say is true, it is unlikely you will be refused. Start collating evidence now just in case they ask for more. Perhaps, if you feel that strongly, you should involve your MP. This will take about 6-7 months to answer, again, due to the high number of letters written by MP's, but it will then be looked at by a case-worker a lot quicker.


J

[OL7MAX]

Let's deal with applications for free shall we? The IND is entitled to recover the costs in deciding applications just like anyone else. If we don't charge, the tax-payer ends up paying more.

I don't need to provide any "civil servant rhetoric". You guys are parodies of yourselves. The question of whether people should get it for free never arose. So, I suppose, as it doesn't exist, it's a useful target for you to attack instead of talking about why your level of service makes some third world dictatorships look fantastic. In particular, why you decide a fair price, pocket the money, and then say people haven't really paid enough so can't expect the service they thought they were getting?

If it wasn't so tragic it would be hilarious. Kinda like I pay £200 to buy an ipod online. Then, months and months later the seller doesn't deliver and blames A) Too many orders and B) I didn't really pay much anyway so I shouldn't expect to get what I paid for.

There are so many people who have applied and you are in a queue because of them, not due to any incompetence of the IND.

It doesn't matter how many people have applied if all of them have paid. If all of them have paid the fee that you've decided is fair then you have to process ALL their applications in a reasonable time... by taking on more staff if you have to. Moan about the volume if you have a fixed amount of cash irrespective of the number of applications. If, however, the cash you get is in direct proportion to the number of applications you receive then the issue isn't about too many applications but too few staff. Not planning staff appropriately is incompetence. Trust me, I run private businesses and private business can recognise these things.

You may have had exceptional reasons for overstaying your visa, but did you have to set up a business, have 3 kids and get married in the knowledge that you were here illegally. I think not.

Damn, I should have thought of going on benefit for the last 15 years. Too late now!

Also, I could have had kids with assorted women and left the taxpayer to pick up the tab for looking after those kids, and the CSA - the other incompetent department - to chase my "illegal" tail. While I was stuck in this country maybe I should have taken up petty theft to sustain myself. Maybe sandbagged a civil servant or two, taken up selling drugs (I hear that this is a very profitable occupation), or de-frauded a bank. Why, oh why, did I employ all those people and pay all that tax?

<shaking head>

I work for the Home Office so obviously know more than you

I don't follow the logic. Could you please explain?

[JamesC]

So as you seem to be so knowledgeable of Immigration, what would you do? How many, to your knowledge, applications are outstanding?

Answer that.

Let's take your IPOD analogy.

Anyone has the right to buy an IPOD, not everyone has the right to be in the UK. You've overstayed in the UK and now expect to be treated the same as those who have adhered to the immigration rules.

Your not treated as 'scum of the earth', especially in comparison with other EU countires. True, two wrongs don't make a right, but you've been here 14 years and have survived this long. In relative terms, a little more waiting will not affect your life.

Your lucky to have been allowed to say in the UK. More than likely, you will be granted ILR, and if what you say is true, you deserve to be. But your applicaiton does not deserve to be rushed through.

The problem is with the people applying not those trying to deal with their endless applications.

J