advice on 180 day rule for ILR

[arbooker]

Hello,

Having devoured all of the posts that I could find on the 180 day rule (much of which was was very valuable, thanks to all those who posted!), I am looking for a bit of advice specific to my situation.

I work as a university lecturer, currently on a work permit, and will apply for ILR with my family next month in Cardiff. I will have 232 days out of the UK (discounting travel days), with 68 of those being holidays (paid leave, as I understand it) and the rest business trips (attending conferences, seminars, etc.).

My main question is how specific the employer letter needs to be in confirming that I was away on business. I attended or spoke at 20 separate conferences/seminars over the last five years, and have made up a detailed spreadsheet to hand in with my application. Should the employer letter also contain all that information or is a summary statement (saying that I travel a lot, perhaps listing the total number of days) enough? From my perspective it would be a bit strange for my department to list all of that, since they honestly didn't have much to do with the details. Most of these things are set up individually between the conference organiser and the academics. The only notification that I have to give to my department is when I'm away during term time, to make sure that I have my teaching duties covered, etc. For travel during the summer months (when most conferences are), they have no formal record that I was away.

That brings me to my second question. Many conference arrangements are done informally by email, and even when I received formal invitation letters, I often have not kept them. (I never imagined this would be a problem!) For many of the conferences, especially those where I gave a talk, there is a web page or announcement that would show my name. I was thinking of printing some of those as backup in case they ask for more evidence. Is that likely to be enough?

Thanks in advance,
Andy

[gidoc]

My main question is how specific the employer letter needs to be in confirming that I was away on business. I attended or spoke at 20 separate conferences/seminars over the last five years, and have made up a detailed spreadsheet to hand in with my application. Should the employer letter also contain all that information or is a summary statement

You are 52 days in excess of the 180 day rule. Your employer should basically sign at the end of your spreadsheet, to make it official. I called my leaves for such purpose as professional/study leave but they were only about 20-25 and had HR sign it.
If not all at least those 52 days of yours need to be covered.

That brings me to my second question. Many conference arrangements are done informally by email, and even when I received formal invitation letters, I often have not kept them. (I never imagined this would be a problem!) For many of the conferences, especially those where I gave a talk, there is a web page or announcement that would show my name. I was thinking of printing some of those as backup in case they ask for more evidence. Is that likely to be enough?

No such proof is required.

[arbooker]

You are 52 days in excess of the 180 day rule. Your employer should basically sign at the end of your spreadsheet, to make it official.

Thanks, I'll give that a try.

[arbooker]

I'm planning to apply on Tuesday in the Cardiff office. My head of department (who signed my employer letter) and I were not in town at the same time in August, so I had to have the letter signed while I was away. Unfortunately, his secretary made a mistake and printed an old draft that did not include some revisions that I suggested. In particular, the letter contains the line "During his employment he has been required by the University to travel to various countries on business" from the sample posted on this forum. However, that's not quite true in my case, since my business trips were all taken under my volition. Should I worry about the exact wording of this, or is it not a big deal?

Thanks,
Andy

[arbooker]

I am happy to report that my family and I got our ILR on 30 August from the Cardiff office. Thanks again to the many people who have posted to this forum; the practical advice that I received here was better than what I got from my university and their recommended solicitor.

Other posters have commented on similar cases, so I will only add a few remarks. The biggest issue with my case was the 180 day absence limit. Fortunately the Home Office has recently clarified the rules to the effect that it's okay to exceed that provided that it's clearly for work reasons, or at least "paid leave". I made sure that my employer letter stated in no uncertain terms that they were aware of my travel and that I was still on the payroll during every absence. (If you read the whole thread you'll see that I was quite anxious about this two days before my application; fortunately I got my letter corrected just in time. I suggest not taking as many chances with this as I did, and get your letter sorted well in advance.) I wasn't asked any questions about it while my case was being considered. However, it's still up to the case worker's discretion whether your absences are reasonable, and there's no way to know for sure what the de facto limit is. I would say that if you're close to a year or more of absences, for whatever reason, then you should consult a solicitor before applying.

One other interesting thing happened during the initial interview. The case worker asked whether I had any questions, to which I hesitatingly requested that she look over my employer letter. I must have looked pretty nervous because she told me not to worry, and that if there were any issues they would discuss it with me rather than rejecting my application out of hand. "That's what the premium service is for," she said. In general, the staff were very polite and seemed to recognise what a stressful experience the whole thing is.

My only gripe is that after we got our passports back a week later (they come in the post since the Cardiff office doesn't have the machine to print the stamps), I found that they had stamped my wife's passport twice. Apparently they have some issues with quality control, despite the enormous fees. No explanation was provided, and we won't find out how much of a problem it causes until the next time my wife tries to enter.

[nghy]

I am happy to report that my family and I got our ILR on 30 August from the Cardiff office. Thanks again to the many people who have posted to this forum; the practical advice that I received here was better than what I got from my university and their recommended solicitor.

Other posters have commented on similar cases, so I will only add a few remarks. The biggest issue with my case was the 180 day absence limit. Fortunately the Home Office has recently clarified the rules to the effect that it's okay to exceed that provided that it's clearly for work reasons, or at least "paid leave". I made sure that my employer letter stated in no uncertain terms that they were aware of my travel and that I was still on the payroll during every absence. (If you read the whole thread you'll see that I was quite anxious about this two days before my application; fortunately I got my letter corrected just in time. I suggest not taking as many chances with this as I did, and get your letter sorted well in advance.) I wasn't asked any questions about it while my case was being considered. However, it's still up to the case worker's discretion whether your absences are reasonable, and there's no way to know for sure what the de facto limit is. I would say that if you're close to a year or more of absences, for whatever reason, then you should consult a solicitor before applying.

One other interesting thing happened during the initial interview. The case worker asked whether I had any questions, to which I hesitatingly requested that she look over my employer letter. I must have looked pretty nervous because she told me not to worry, and that if there were any issues they would discuss it with me rather than rejecting my application out of hand. "That's what the premium service is for," she said. In general, the staff were very polite and seemed to recognise what a stressful experience the whole thing is.

My only gripe is that after we got our passports back a week later (they come in the post since the Cardiff office doesn't have the machine to print the stamps), I found that they had stamped my wife's passport twice. Apparently they have some issues with quality control, despite the enormous fees. No explanation was provided, and we won't find out how much of a problem it causes until the next time my wife tries to enter.

Congrats, arbooker. Thanks for sharing your result. Could you kindly clarify the following few points you mentioned above? Many thanks, greatly appreciated.

1. You mentioned "the Home Office has recently clarified the rules to the effect that it's okay to exceed", did the case office inform you verbally ? The guideline (http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/sitec ... iew=Binary) stated holidays (consistent with annual paid leave) or business trip MAY be disregarded, and not WILL be disregarded. So, I guess it still on case by case basis ?

2. Possible to provide a template of your employer letter as reference ?

3. When you calculate your absences, the travelling days are discounted. I could not find this calculation in any of the guidelines. When I called UKBA, an advisor told me everyday is counted regardless of travelling days, weekends or public holiday. Could you advice where you got it ?

Many thanks again,
nghy

[arbooker]

1. You mentioned "the Home Office has recently clarified the rules to the effect that it's okay to exceed", did the case office inform you verbally ? The guideline (http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/sitec ... iew=Binary) stated holidays (consistent with annual paid leave) or business trip MAY be disregarded, and not WILL be disregarded.
So, I guess it still on case by case basis ?

Correct, though I think you're reading too much into how the policy document is worded. It's safe to say that this is the policy in force, as confirmed by several posts, some from people with more than 300 days of absences.

2. Possible to provide a template of your employer letter as reference ?

The letter basically followed the template available as a sticky on this forum, but I had the following paragraph inserted. (Needless to say, you should re-write it to conform to your circumstances. The case workers are probably used to seeing the same letters over and over again, but I would be wary about copying anything verbatim from the site.)

A large portion of Dr *****’s work involves academic research, which includes a significant amount of travel abroad to attend and speak at conferences and seminars. A full list of his absences is attached. While abroad, whether for work or holiday, he was still on the University of ***** payroll and was paying NI and tax in the UK. His salary was deposited in his UK bank account.

Also, my cover letter included the following paragraph:

I had a total of 246 days (discounting travel days) outside of the UK over the last five years. The majority of those (178 days) were for work-related travel, including attending and speaking at conferences and seminars, and collaborative research visits. This was essential travel for the full performance of my job, as recognised in the codes of practice for Tier 2 sponsors (SOC 2311). I have asked our Head of School to sign my list of absences to make it clear that the work-related travel was fully sanctioned by the University, and he has also mentioned this briefly in the employer letter. For reference, I have included a separate page detailing each conference, seminar and research visit.

3. When you calculate your absences, the travelling days are discounted. I could not find this calculation in any of the guidelines. When I called UKBA, an advisor told me everyday is counted regardless of travelling days, weekends or public holiday. Could you advice where you got it ?

See this thread:
http://www.immigrationboards.com/viewto ... 261#165261
It seems that the idea of discounting travel days came from the corresponding rule for naturalisation, where it is stated clearly. However, I think it's irrelevant how you decide to count the days. Form SET(O) doesn't ask you to do so; rather, you just put in your dates of departure and return, and the case worker does his/her own calculation (though of course I did put totals on my cover letter and spreadsheet). Also, the 180 day rule is no longer explicitly written on the form, reflecting (I think) the more liberal policy. It only really becomes an issue if you have many days of unpaid leave.

[prince12]

I am happy to report that my family and I got our ILR on 30 August from the Cardiff office. Thanks again to the many people who have posted to this forum; the practical advice that I received here was better than what I got from my university and their recommended solicitor.

Other posters have commented on similar cases, so I will only add a few remarks. The biggest issue with my case was the 180 day absence limit. Fortunately the Home Office has recently clarified the rules to the effect that it's okay to exceed that provided that it's clearly for work reasons, or at least "paid leave". I made sure that my employer letter stated in no uncertain terms that they were aware of my travel and that I was still on the payroll during every absence. (If you read the whole thread you'll see that I was quite anxious about this two days before my application; fortunately I got my letter corrected just in time. I suggest not taking as many chances with this as I did, and get your letter sorted well in advance.) I wasn't asked any questions about it while my case was being considered. However, it's still up to the case worker's discretion whether your absences are reasonable, and there's no way to know for sure what the de facto limit is. I would say that if you're close to a year or more of absences, for whatever reason, then you should consult a solicitor before applying.

One other interesting thing happened during the initial interview. The case worker asked whether I had any questions, to which I hesitatingly requested that she look over my employer letter. I must have looked pretty nervous because she told me not to worry, and that if there were any issues they would discuss it with me rather than rejecting my application out of hand. "That's what the premium service is for," she said. In general, the staff were very polite and seemed to recognise what a stressful experience the whole thing is.

My only gripe is that after we got our passports back a week later (they come in the post since the Cardiff office doesn't have the machine to print the stamps), I found that they had stamped my wife's passport twice. Apparently they have some issues with quality control, despite the enormous fees. No explanation was provided, and we won't find out how much of a problem it causes until the next time my wife tries to enter.

Congrats Arbrooker, one question please...was any of your abscences more than 90 days at a time?

[arbooker]

Congrats Arbrooker, one question please...was any of your abscences more than 90 days at a time?

No, and from other posts on the forum it seems clear that this is a higher level of severity. Unless you have a strong claim to discounting a long absence on compassionate grounds, anything over 90 days (now written as "three months" in the modernised guidance, whatever that means) is likely to disqualify you. In that case, it's better to apply for another limited-term visa and delay applying for ILR until you've accumulated five years since the most recent long absence.

[nghy]

1. You mentioned "the Home Office has recently clarified the rules to the effect that it's okay to exceed", did the case office inform you verbally ? The guideline (http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/sitec ... iew=Binary) stated holidays (consistent with annual paid leave) or business trip MAY be disregarded, and not WILL be disregarded.
So, I guess it still on case by case basis ?

Correct, though I think you're reading too much into how the policy document is worded. It's safe to say that this is the policy in force, as confirmed by several posts, some from people with more than 300 days of absences.

2. Possible to provide a template of your employer letter as reference ?

The letter basically followed the template available as a sticky on this forum, but I had the following paragraph inserted. (Needless to say, you should re-write it to conform to your circumstances. The case workers are probably used to seeing the same letters over and over again, but I would be wary about copying anything verbatim from the site.)

A large portion of Dr *****’s work involves academic research, which includes a significant amount of travel abroad to attend and speak at conferences and seminars. A full list of his absences is attached. While abroad, whether for work or holiday, he was still on the University of ***** payroll and was paying NI and tax in the UK. His salary was deposited in his UK bank account.

Also, my cover letter included the following paragraph:

I had a total of 246 days (discounting travel days) outside of the UK over the last five years. The majority of those (178 days) were for work-related travel, including attending and speaking at conferences and seminars, and collaborative research visits. This was essential travel for the full performance of my job, as recognised in the codes of practice for Tier 2 sponsors (SOC 2311). I have asked our Head of School to sign my list of absences to make it clear that the work-related travel was fully sanctioned by the University, and he has also mentioned this briefly in the employer letter. For reference, I have included a separate page detailing each conference, seminar and research visit.

3. When you calculate your absences, the travelling days are discounted. I could not find this calculation in any of the guidelines. When I called UKBA, an advisor told me everyday is counted regardless of travelling days, weekends or public holiday. Could you advice where you got it ?

See this thread:
http://www.immigrationboards.com/viewto ... 261#165261
It seems that the idea of discounting travel days came from the corresponding rule for naturalisation, where it is stated clearly. However, I think it's irrelevant how you decide to count the days. Form SET(O) doesn't ask you to do so; rather, you just put in your dates of departure and return, and the case worker does his/her own calculation (though of course I did put totals on my cover letter and spreadsheet). Also, the 180 day rule is no longer explicitly written on the form, reflecting (I think) the more liberal policy. It only really becomes an issue if you have many days of unpaid leave.

Thanks for clarifying, arbooker. I have a total of 211 absences abroad (discounting travel days) or 255 (includes travel days) for the last 5 years. All for holiday purposes. 46 days unpaid (includes weekends and public holidays), the rest are paid leave. Most holidays were short weekend trips and visiting family once a year for 2-3 weeks. The only one longest trip was 60 days for holiday. Met all the others requirements. Works for the same company for the last 5 years, on UK payroll, paid UK tax & NI.

The only thing that bug me is the 180 days limit. It's still on the SET(O) form, under section D Continuous Residence Assessment, "D2. Please confirm whether you have been outside of the UK for any single absence over 3 months or one or more absences which amount to more than 6 month in total during the 5 year period". Got all my documents, payslip, bank statements, company letter with annual leaves for last 5 years, p60 for last 5 years. Worth taking the risk with £1350?

[arbooker]

Thanks for clarifying, arbooker. I have a total of 203 absences abroad (discounting travel days) or 243 (includes travel days) for the last 5 years. All for holiday purposes. 47 days unpaid (includes weekends and public holidays), the rest are paid leave. Most holidays were short weekend trips and visiting family once a year for 2-3 weeks. The only one longest trip was 60 days for holiday. Met all the others requirements. Works for the same company for the last 5 years, on UK payroll, paid UK tax & NI.

I think this is probably fine as long as you can provide good documentary evidence that you were on paid leave, especially during the 60-day absence (bring all of your payslips just in case). Of course you shouldn't just take my word for it; there are several other cases on the forum, some possibly closer to your situation.

The only thing that bug me is the 180 days limit. It's still on the SET(O) form, under section D Continuous Residence Assessment, "D2. Please confirm whether you have been outside of the UK for any single absence over 3 months or one or more absences which amount to more than 6 month in total during the 5 year period". Got all my documents, payslip, bank statements, company letter with annual leaves for last 5 years, p60 for last 5 years. Worth taking the risk with £1350?

Sorry, you're right, I missed that since I didn't have to fill out section 9. As I said above, if you can document that you were on paid leave then it should be okay. I think what they're looking for with that question is an explanation for why you get so much paid leave. (The average full time occupation gets only a month out of the year; from that standpoint, six months in five years is generous. If your occupation has a lot more leave, e.g. teacher, then say so.)

You have to decide for yourself whether it's worth the risk. It's always possible to get unlucky and get a case worker having a bad day, but on the other hand the alternatives are also expensive. It also depends on your details. For instance, how early was your 60-day absence? If it was in your first year then extending your Tier 1 status for another two years might be a good route. If it was more recent then applying for an extension is not going to do much to change your circumstances.

[katwmn6]

Thanks for clarifying, arbooker. I have a total of 211 absences abroad (discounting travel days) or 255 (includes travel days) for the last 5 years. All for holiday purposes. 46 days unpaid (includes weekends and public holidays), the rest are paid leave. Most holidays were short weekend trips and visiting family once a year for 2-3 weeks. The only one longest trip was 60 days for holiday. Met all the others requirements. Works for the same company for the last 5 years, on UK payroll, paid UK tax & NI.

The only thing that bug me is the 180 days limit. It's still on the SET(O) form, under section D Continuous Residence Assessment, "D2. Please confirm whether you have been outside of the UK for any single absence over 3 months or one or more absences which amount to more than 6 month in total during the 5 year period". Got all my documents, payslip, bank statements, company letter with annual leaves for last 5 years, p60 for last 5 years. Worth taking the risk with £1350?

Hi nghy, could you keep us informed in this thread of what happens if you go ahead with your ILR application? I am in a similar situation (although my longest period abroad was an 80 day absence during a period of unemployment - not the smartest move retrospectively but hadn't realised the 180 day at the time).

Best of luck to you, and congrats again arbooker!

[nghy]

Thanks for clarifying, arbooker. I have a total of 211 absences abroad (discounting travel days) or 255 (includes travel days) for the last 5 years. All for holiday purposes. 46 days unpaid (includes weekends and public holidays), the rest are paid leave. Most holidays were short weekend trips and visiting family once a year for 2-3 weeks. The only one longest trip was 60 days for holiday. Met all the others requirements. Works for the same company for the last 5 years, on UK payroll, paid UK tax & NI.

The only thing that bug me is the 180 days limit. It's still on the SET(O) form, under section D Continuous Residence Assessment, "D2. Please confirm whether you have been outside of the UK for any single absence over 3 months or one or more absences which amount to more than 6 month in total during the 5 year period". Got all my documents, payslip, bank statements, company letter with annual leaves for last 5 years, p60 for last 5 years. Worth taking the risk with £1350?

Hi nghy, could you keep us informed in this thread of what happens if you go ahead with your ILR application? I am in a similar situation (although my longest period abroad was an 80 day absence during a period of unemployment - not the smartest move retrospectively but hadn't realised the 180 day at the time).

Best of luck to you, and congrats again arbooker!

Hi katwmn6, I've got my ILR.

I used the template from this forum to list all my absences http://www.immigrationboards.com/viewtopic.php?t=64235.

I applied in Solihull. The process was surprising fast. My appointment at 9am. Reached there before 9am, 5 mins security check, wait about 10 mins then 15 mins with the case officer. She only ask 1 question "How many days I was abroad". I replied "255". After she did some checks on the computer, I was asked to pay at the next counter. Went back after 1.5 hrs to collect my visa & original docs ... and that's it ...

Good luck!

[sunil.suneel]

I applied in Solihull. The process was surprising fast. My appointment at 9am. Reached there before 9am, 5 mins security check, wait about 10 mins then 15 mins with the case officer. She only ask 1 question "How many days I was abroad". I replied "255". After she did some checks on the computer, I was asked to pay at the next counter. Went back after 1.5 hrs to collect my visa & original docs ... and that's it ...

Congratulations nghy !!!

Was there nothing else discussed about your absences at all ??? no explanation or documents to support additional absences asked ???

Please can you list the exact documents that you submitted ... would be very helpful ...


Thanks

[nghy]

I applied in Solihull. The process was surprising fast. My appointment at 9am. Reached there before 9am, 5 mins security check, wait about 10 mins then 15 mins with the case officer. She only ask 1 question "How many days I was abroad". I replied "255". After she did some checks on the computer, I was asked to pay at the next counter. Went back after 1.5 hrs to collect my visa & original docs ... and that's it ...

Congratulations nghy !!!

Was there nothing else discussed about your absences at all ??? no explanation or documents to support additional absences asked ???

Please can you list the exact documents that you submitted ... would be very helpful ...


Thanks

Thanks, sunil. Nothing at all. No further question asked. No mention of 180 days, 90 days, paid or unpaid leave.

I listed all absences in a separate spreadsheet and submitted with SET(O) form because ran out of space on the form.

Docs submitted:
- Form SET(O) + 2 passport photos
- Passport (current and past) - try to submit photocopies but was told not required
- Living in UK test result & photocopy
- 12 mths payslips & photocopy
- 12 mths bank statement & photocopy
- letter from employer summarizing total pay & photocopy (this may not required if u already have payslip & bank statements)

[luckyboy]

I applied in Solihull. The process was surprising fast. My appointment at 9am. Reached there before 9am, 5 mins security check, wait about 10 mins then 15 mins with the case officer. She only ask 1 question "How many days I was abroad". I replied "255". After she did some checks on the computer, I was asked to pay at the next counter. Went back after 1.5 hrs to collect my visa & original docs ... and that's it ...

Congratulations nghy !!!

Was there nothing else discussed about your absences at all ??? no explanation or documents to support additional absences asked ???

Please can you list the exact documents that you submitted ... would be very helpful ...


Thanks

Thanks, sunil. Nothing at all. No further question asked. No mentioned of 180 days, 90 days, paid or unpaid leave.

I listed all absences in a separate spreadsheet and submitted with SET(O) form because ran out of space on the form.

Docs submitted:
- Form SET(O) + 2 passport photos
- Passport (current and past) - try to submit photocopies but was told not required
- Living in UK test result & photocopy
- 12 mths payslips & photocopy
- 12 mths bank statement & photocopy
- letter from employer summarizing total pay & photocopy (this may not required if u already have payslip & bank statements)

Congrats nghy!

Did your employer letter mention about your holiday entitlement or the paid holiday your taken? I have 193 days absences (include 43 days paid holiday, max absences was 21 days) I do worry about my total absence days.

[katwmn6]

Wow, that's amazing nghy! Congratulations!!

Has anyone else had/heard of success getting ILR when clearly over 180 days abroad? I wonder if it was just a fluke for nghy or if it's systematically not being enforced.. (doubtful of the latter but can always hope!)

[nghy]

Thanks, luckyboy & katwmn6.

luckyboy, I prepared 2 versions of employment letter. One is the standard letter with my start date and based permanently in UK. The other version is with additional information, list of paid & unpaid leave, remained on UK payroll, paid NI and tax in the UK .. etc. But, I only submitted the 1st version.


katwmn6, I have 3 others friends with over 180 days abroad that successfully getting ILR in Croydon. There're many successful cases in this forum too. Remember reading few cases with over 300 days and 500 days absences for various reasons. Don't think it's a fluke

[luckyboy]

Thanks, luckyboy & katwmn6.

luckyboy, I prepared 2 versions of employment letter. One is the standard letter with my start date and based permanently in UK. The other version is with additional information, list of paid & unpaid leave, remained on UK payroll, paid NI and tax in the UK .. etc. But, I only submitted the 1st version.


katwmn6, I have 3 others friends with over 180 days abroad that successfully getting ILR in Croydon. There're many successful cases in this forum too. Remember reading few cases with over 300 days and 500 days absences for various reasons. Don't think it's a fluke

thanks, nghy

[katwmn6]

katwmn6, I have 3 others friends with over 180 days abroad that successfully getting ILR in Croydon. There're many successful cases in this forum too. Remember reading few cases with over 300 days and 500 days absences for various reasons. Don't think it's a fluke

Thanks nghy!

[santoshganpath]

You are very lucky nghy

I wish my ILR issued so smoothly. I had to fight for my ILR and had to go through all the mess for nearly 6-months.

Once again it is proved that Solihull PEO is a bit linient towards absences like these.

Anyway congrats buddy.

Regards...
Santosh

[katwmn6]

You are very lucky nghy

I wish my ILR issued so smoothly. I had to fight for my ILR and had to go through all the mess for nearly 6-months.

Once again it is proved that Solihull PEO is a bit linient towards absences like these.

Anyway congrats buddy.

Regards...
Santosh

Sorry to hear that Santosh - can I ask what happened with your case?

[santoshganpath]

Well, it was refused and I got it in Appeal. If you read my previous posts, you can understand everything.

Regards...
Santosh

[katwmn6]

Well, it was refused and I got it in Appeal. If you read my previous posts, you can understand everything.

Just read your old thread - what a pain! Very pleased to hear it got sorted out in the end.