Help please appeal tribunal hearing December

countrylass · Post by **countrylass** » Sun Oct 29, 2006 4:15 pm

Just to add to my posting from yesterday, how do we prove a negative. ie how is it possible to actually prove someone was not married previously? I can only think of family and friends testimonials, signed and posted by mail. For the tribunal, will it be enough that we married within the laws of the country where we got married? Please reply, I,m out of my depth here. Thank you

gaman · Post by **gaman** » Sun Oct 29, 2006 8:52 pm

Hi Countrylass, I do not see that it is difficult to prove one is not married before.
Your husband will have to go to his 'district/ward' from where he has acquired his Nepali citizenship and get a letter confirming that he was never married before, or if he was married then to show that it was dissolved before your date of marriage. Just to remind you that he will get this letter in Nepali and has to be translated officially into English.
I am assuming that his visa was rejected only on this ground. If not, you will have to full fill all other criteria, like, finances, proof of relationship - phone bills, mails, emails, and may be family and friends testimonials.

Good luck!

ppron747 · Post by **ppron747** » Sun Oct 29, 2006 9:54 pm

Gaman's suggestion certainly helps with regard to previous marriage(s) that might have taken place in your husband's home district, but doesn't really help if the ECO thinks he was previously married anywhere else.

With respect, you've not given us much to go on; you have said that the ECO is not satisfied that your husband was free to marry you, but you haven't said why she reached this conclusion - except to say, in your post here

There was a reason the ECO could query the single status but as I have stated we did all that was required to refute this claim.

I'm afraid this tells us nothing. How can anyone suggest what additional evidence might help you to overturn a decision, if they don't know how that decision was reached in the first place?

countrylass · Post by **countrylass** » Mon Oct 30, 2006 4:37 pm

Thank you, I appreciate what you are saying,
A) We had to get the document proving single status and give it to the registrar before we were married. We got 2 of these as my husband has live in 2 districts, therefore the registrar accepted these and we were allowed to marry. After the refusal we got certified copies of these 2 docs. and had them translated for the appeal. The refusal was maintained by the ECO in Kathmandu.
B) Originally, we applied, before marrying, for my fiance to come to the uk on a 6 month visitors visa, this was so we could spend time together and make sure that what we felt was real (not just a holiday romance so to speak). My husband was taking care of a poor, single mother and her children, he would help her out with the children and provide what little money he had to ensure they were fed. He never co-habited with her. When he applied for the visa his friends all called her his wife and told him to declare her on the form as 'this would ensure the embassy would know he would come back to Nepal'. My husband had had no experience of bureaucrasy and considered the woman and her children as his dependants, even though he had never married her. He never considered that this would be a lie on the form. The family was entered on the form. In the Western view the woman may be thought of as a common law wife, except there was no romance, only practical support. (I have many times met the woman and her children, who are extremely poor and have no relatives, I too have provided food, gas and cash for medicines when I have visited). So. the ECO refused the visit visa, saying 'if you have this family and you are poor, I don't believe you will return to Nepal.
C) I was told at the British Embassy, by a clerk, no further proof of my husband's single status was needed as we had a marrieage certificate which, in itself proved eligibility to marry in accordance with nepali law.
Complicated situation, which due to my husbands naivity may have compromosed our chance of him getting this settlement visa. The only point made on the refusal document was that no proof of his single status had been offered at interview, (as I said before, the clerk had already advised that this was unneccesary if we had a marriage certificate). We have now provided the same but to no avail so far. ???????????????

countrylass · Post by **countrylass** » Wed Nov 01, 2006 11:07 am

I hope that last posting makes our situation clearer, so that maybe someone can offer some guidance. Thank you

ppron747 · Post by **ppron747** » Wed Nov 01, 2006 3:10 pm

It does clarify things, but I don't know the way out, I'm afraid. I hope someone else will...

gaman · Post by **gaman** » Wed Nov 01, 2006 9:42 pm

If nothingelse work, one personal suggestion would be to speak to ECO about all in detail and why your husband has mentioned about being married in the earlier visa application and make a formal apology. Never know, that might get you somewhere.

Or if you can spend some time in Nepal with him and apply again and attend the visa interview together.

countrylass · Post by **countrylass** » Thu Nov 02, 2006 9:52 am

Thank you for your reply, i spent 3 months with my husband earlier this year, when we married. I went with him to the Embassy when he had his interview and i was refused entry to his interview. I said I would wait outside the room and be available to answer any questions or clarify any matters.......I was not called. When he was refused, I asked the clerk what exactly was needed to change the decision or back up our application, she said 'proof of single status before your marriage'. This is when we returned to the registrar and got certified copies of all the papers that they had accepted to marry us legally. I spent another month with my husband in Nepal later this year. Therefore I have spent 4 and a half months over there since February. I am self employed and pretty short of cash as a result! Do you think I could e-mail an appology to the ECO at this stage? The hearing is the week before Christmas. Also, I have received 'the bundle' from the tribunal with the statement maintaining the refusal decision. There are..dubious statements regarding the interview in it, I am fully aware of my husbands level of language and some of the statements are impossible in his voabulary, and made to incriminate him. I am not paranoid i have shown it to a friend who also has met my husband and she also said he could not have said the 'quoted statements' also, when I asked my husband about them he didn't know the words used. But it's our word against theirs. I have no idea what the Embassy is worried about.
Sorry this is a long posting, thank you for your time and patience. Oh.. in this latest letter there is a statement saying, 'refusing this application would not have interfered with family life, for the purposes of article8(1), which could be enjoyed in Nepal' Is this suggesting I have no choice but to go to live there, leaving my home, family, business and friends? I am having trouble finding these 'laws' on line.
Regards, countrylass.

countrylass · Post by **countrylass** » Thu Nov 02, 2006 9:59 am

Thank you for your reply, i spent 3 months with my husband earlier this year, when we married. I went with him to the Embassy when he had his interview and i was refused entry to his interview. I said I would wait outside the room and be available to answer any questions or clarify any matters.......I was not called. When he was refused, I asked the clerk what exactly was needed to change the decision or back up our application, she said 'proof of single status before your marriage'. This is when we returned to the registrar and got certified copies of all the papers that they had accepted to marry us legally. I spent another month with my husband in Nepal later this year. Therefore I have spent 4 and a half months over there since February. I am self employed and pretty short of cash as a result! Do you think I could e-mail an appology to the ECO at this stage? The hearing is the week before Christmas. Also, I have received 'the bundle' from the tribunal with the statement maintaining the refusal decision. There are..dubious statements regarding the interview in it, I am fully aware of my husbands level of language and some of the statements are impossible in his voabulary, and made to incriminate him. I am not paranoid i have shown it to a friend who also has met my husband and she also said he could not have said the 'quoted statements' also, when I asked my husband about them he didn't know the words used. But it's our word against theirs. I have no idea what the Embassy is worried about.
Sorry this is a long posting, thank you for your time and patience. Oh.. in this latest letter there is a statement saying, 'refusing this application would not have interfered with family life, for the purposes of article8(1), which could be enjoyed in Nepal' Is this suggesting I have no choice but to go to live there, leaving my home, family, business and friends? I am having trouble finding these 'laws' on line. The other major issue I have is that the entire basis of the refusal is the previous application for the visit visa, everything else concerning funds, adequate housing etc was fine. I believed that each application should be taken on it's own merit with the evidence provided. Am I wrong here?
Regards, countrylass.

countrylass · Post by **countrylass** » Thu Nov 02, 2006 10:04 am

Thank you for your reply, i spent 3 months with my husband earlier this year, when we married. I went with him to the Embassy when he had his interview and i was refused entry to his interview. I said I would wait outside the room and be available to answer any questions or clarify any matters.......I was not called. When he was refused, I asked the clerk what exactly was needed to change the decision or back up our application, she said 'proof of single status before your marriage'. This is when we returned to the registrar and got certified copies of all the papers that they had accepted to marry us legally. I spent another month with my husband in Nepal later this year. Therefore I have spent 4 and a half months over there since February. I am self employed and pretty short of cash as a result! Do you think I could e-mail an appology to the ECO at this stage? The hearing is the week before Christmas. Also, I have received 'the bundle' from the tribunal with the statement maintaining the refusal decision. There are..dubious statements regarding the interview in it, I am fully aware of my husbands level of language and some of the statements are impossible in his voabulary, and made to incriminate him. I am not paranoid i have shown it to a friend who also has met my husband and she also said he could not have said the 'quoted statements' also, when I asked my husband about them he didn't know the words used. But it's our word against theirs. I have no idea what the Embassy is worried about.
Sorry this is a long posting, thank you for your time and patience. Oh.. in this latest letter there is a statement saying, 'refusing this application would not have interfered with family life, for the purposes of article8(1), which could be enjoyed in Nepal' Is this suggesting I have no choice but to go to live there, leaving my home, family, business and friends? I am having trouble finding these 'laws' on line. The other major issue I have is that the entire basis of the refusal is the previous application for the visit visa, everything else concerning funds, adequate housing etc was fine. I believed that each application should be taken on it's own merit with the evidence provided. Is this true?
Regards, countrylass.

Ellie · Post by **Ellie** » Thu Nov 02, 2006 10:18 am

I suggest that u wait for the hearing it is only one month away...
Another thing is why don't u get a certified statement from the woman that ur husband claimed he was married to, stating that they were never married and explaining the stituation.
Also get certified letters from his friends and family stating they he was never married before u.. I think that will be valuable at the hearing...

Ellie · Post by **Ellie** » Thu Nov 02, 2006 10:19 am

I suggest that u wait for the hearing it is only one month away...
Another thing is why don't u get a certified statement from the woman that ur husband claimed he was married to, stating that they were never married and explaining the stituation.
Also get certified letters from his friends and family stating they he was never married before u.. I think that will be valuable at the hearing...

countrylass · Post by **countrylass** » Thu Nov 02, 2006 12:10 pm

Thank you Ellie

ppron747 · Post by **ppron747** » Thu Nov 02, 2006 1:18 pm

I don't pretend to be an expert in questions like this, countrylass, but I think the "human rights" reference you mention is a stock phrase that appears in many refusals. It is a fact that many people try to argue that a visa refusal is preventing a couple from living together, and is therefore in breach of their right to a family life. In most cases, it isn't - it may be preventing them from living together in the UK, but it is not stopping them from doing so in the other country concerned. It's a bit like the occasional press reports you see where people are claiming to be "stateless" when in fact they have a citizenship - it's just not the one that they want....

However - and I repeat that I'm no expert - it does seem to me to be disingenuous, at least, for one part of the organisation to be saying there's no reason why you can't live in Nepal, while another part of the Embassy is saying

The security situation in Kathmandu and elsewhere in Nepal remains highly unpredictable. Major street demonstrations and disturbances occur frequently in Kathmandu and elsewhere in the country, often at very short notice. Some of these have turned violent.

We therefore strongly advise you to avoid all demonstrations and large gatherings. You should remain extremely vigilant at all times. You should be aware of the very high risk to personal safety during times of Bandhs (strikes) and demonstrations....

That comes from the Foreign Office's official travel advice - here,on their website. I certainly don't think this should be a major plank in your platform, but I think it may well warrant mention in your appeal. The FCO advice falls short of actually telling people not to go to Nepal, but makes it abundantly clear that it is not your average safe destination.

Are you having professional representation at the appeal? I think it might be no bad thing to consider it....

countrylass · Post by **countrylass** » Thu Nov 02, 2006 8:58 pm

Thank you for your input, it helps to be able to discuss the possibilities with people with experiences of their own, albeit not the same.
Yes I plan to have representation, I am putting the info in order before handing it to the solicitor. Just a small but somewhat poignant point, for me, I supplied our marriage certificate to have my name changed to my new married name on my passport. The certificate was accepted as legal documentation without question and my passport is in my married name! As it should have been. I have full appreciation of the difficulties of living in Nepal, I was there Feb til May during the height of the civil war, getting married to the man I love. Thanks for the guidance.

gaman · Post by **gaman** » Thu Nov 02, 2006 11:55 pm

countrylass · Post by **countrylass** » Mon Nov 06, 2006 11:21 am

Hi, since reading the postings, I suggested my husband take the woman to the Registrar and they both make a certified, witnessed statement to say they have never been married. The Registrar has refused to do this as he said the marriage certificate alone is proof that my husband was single before marrying me. I admire his integrity, why should his professional word be questioned. He said the same when we first approached him for the certified copies of my husband's single status documents. He also said if the British Embassy want to question his integrity then they should do it directly. Thank you for the listing for the informatiom re kathmandu Brit Emb. very interesting. One rule for one and another rule for others! I have found 'Immigration Directorates Instructions' on-line, which seems at face value to state that a marriage is legal in the UK if it was conducted and is accepted as legal in the country where it took place. I just hope... after all we have stated that we made a mistake through misinterpretation, on the first application. All views welcome..thank you

Ellie · Post by **Ellie** » Mon Nov 06, 2006 12:13 pm

Hi Countrylass,
How about if you get a solicitor in Nepal to certify the letter from ur husband and the lady?

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Help please appeal tribunal hearing December

Help please appeal tribunal hearing December