Interesting stuff:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/6109230.stm
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Just some random thoughts!It's rather ironic, I think, that for all the complaints that British people make about benefit-scrounging immigrants, it's actually legal immigrants who pick up the tab for British people who scrounge benefits. In reality very few immigrants are entitled to benefits.Legal immigrants pay loads of taxes and NICs, but cannot claim any benefit for upto 5 years at a stretch, that British citizens have right to!
More control just leads to more black-market activity. Look what's happened with drug control. It's an absolute failure because all that's happened is that drug production has been driven underground where it's out of the control of the government and in the hands of drugs gangs.Illegal immigration is bad, anyway! That needs controlling.
I think the point we are making is that we are slagging off British people who are NOT entitled to benefits, i.e. those who falsely claim disability benefits when they are not disabled and those who falsely claim unemployment benefits when they are employed or are too lazy to find employment. The irony part comes into it when these very same people falsely claim immigrants are stealing their benefits when in fact immigrants are actually contributing to their benefits through the taxes that they pay.Rogerio wrote:What I personally find ironic is the fact that we, immigrants, CHOOSE to come to the UK and then start slagging off the locals who are on benefits, which they are entitled to.
Maybe then we should decide to migrate to a country where there is no social security net for people to fall on.
It is a common and popular misconception that immigrants are benefit cheats. The major chunk, as you put it, of the population who abuse the benefits system are British citizens, not immigrants, legal or otherwise.Fact of the matter is, they "started discovering" the truth lately in the mid 90s that immigrants especially those from South Asia( legal or illegal) represented a major chunk of the population who abused the benefit system.
Bear in mind that all "native born" British people ultimately all decended from immigrants themselves. There is also an argument, I believe, that the British public have a moral duty to welcome immigrants, especially immigrants from previous British colonies. Don't forget that the prosperity that the UK now enjoys was built off the back of the old British empire who raped, pillaged and plundered the natural resources of the countries that immigrants are now coming from. In addition, the British empire is mostly responsible for the dire state of most of these countries.Keeping all this in mind -How can taxpaying native born British welcome immigrants with a whole hearted & openmind. If they still do, they are not living in the 21st century!!
I find your "Uncle Tom" mentality disturbing. It's like you have Stockholm Syndrome or something. We have dug no ditch. All immigrants are human beings who aspire to something better. We cannot be blamed for wild hysteria and popular misconception spread about us. It's not our fault that the UK government wants to spend millions combatting some perceived immigration "problem" when in reality there is no problem at all except for the narrow-mindedness of some people.We ourselves dug the ditch and now there is no point in complaining immigration fees will rise to 1K or 10K or about the border controls. This is bound to happen for their miscreed.
The only immigrants not contributing to public funds are those who have been pushed underground to work in the black market not because they want to, but because they have been forced to by draconian immigration laws. Given the choice most illegal immigrants would welcome the chance to become law-abiding, tax-paying members of society.Take it or leave it and there is no way forward other than changing the "eat the cake free" attitude and without contributing to the public funds - thats the only way and better way of integrating to a society as far as I see it.
Again, an utterly outrageous statement. I'm guessing you're the sort of person who blames rape victims for their misfortune because they were wearing a short skirt.As I look back, the root cause of all these problems for immigrants is created by us - none other than our ancestor immigrants! Well done - atleast you have got us talking here.
If you rather quoted to say British citizens are football hooligans - I might have given an attempt to take your pointThe major chunk, as you put it, of the population who abuse the benefits system are British citizens, not immigrants, legal or otherwise.
Yes, so probably they cheated the benefit system there too where they decended, ha?. And may be we are seeing an avalanche of cheat tricks inspired from their anthropology anecdots. Come on - if you dont get inspired, atleast get something that will make you perspire.British people ultimately all decended from immigrants themselves
Yes of course - if you keep reading between the lines especially when the book is in an inverted position.I find your "Uncle Tom" mentality disturbing
Haha, I may not agree with you, but at least your mangled English and bad grammar make for funny reading. Keep it up, that's the best laugh I've had all day!vin123 wrote:Dawie, I atleast got you to do a quick-quote on my statements, now lets get on:
I don’t need a PhD in psychology to analyze your attitude, but you have thoroughly lost the point I was trying to make.
The points you have quoted could be classified as "Classic Repurcsions" which is not a highly uncommon phenomenon for forum addicts. So let me revert
If you rather quoted to say British citizens are football hooligans - I might have given an attempt to take your pointThe major chunk, as you put it, of the population who abuse the benefits system are British citizens, not immigrants, legal or otherwise.
Yes, so probably they cheated the benefit system there too where they decended, ha?. And may be we are seeing an avalanche of cheat tricks inspired from their anthropology anecdots. Come on - if you dont get inspired, atleast get something that will make you perspire.British people ultimately all decended from immigrants themselves
Yes of course - if you keep reading between the lines especially when the book is in an inverted position.I find your "Uncle Tom" mentality disturbing
Firstly, analogy time - would you attack George Bush's policies or the his character? What if the two are inextricably linked? I don't think you can separate the view that someone holds from their character. If someone feels so strongly about an opinion that they are willing to air it in public then they should accept that both their opinion and themselves are fair game for an attack. I accept and take this risk when I air my opinions. It's part of the game.ppron747 wrote:Well said, Rogerio...
Attack an argument, by all means, but don't attack or insult the person making the argument.
Holding a particular view doesn't mean that a person is an Uncle Tom, a quisling, a net addict or anything else.
Please step back from the line.
[Added later] Oh, and Dawie - I've just seen your claimed retraction. Sarcasm doesn't help either.
I read this is being unnecessarily rude, judgemental, offensive, pointless, and most certainly not in any way contributing to the common good this forum tries to enable.Dawie wrote:
I don't think you can separate the view that someone holds from their character. If someone feels so strongly about an opinion that they are willing to air it in public then they should accept that both their opinion and themselves are fair game for an attack. I accept and take this risk when I air my opinions. It's part of the game.
And I think that sarcasm is the lowest form of wit, as I said before...Dawie wrote:... honourable member's last statement as his language usage is somewhat confusing.
Rogerio, your standards on rudeness are, er, interesting. People can insinuate that Asians are largely crooks and you let that pass but if someone maintains that a person can't be separated from his opinion you call that rude? The other adjectives are too ridiculous in this context to even comment on.I read this is being unnecessarily rude
Nah, there are certain categories who are exempt. Politicians, for exampleIf someone feels so strongly about an opinion that they are willing to air it in public then they should accept that both their opinion and themselves are fair game for an attack.
Rogerio, your altruism is to be commended. If only you could channel all that self-rightousness into issues like global warming and world peace the world might just stand a chance.Rogerio wrote: I read this is being unnecessarily rude, judgemental, offensive, pointless, and most certainly not in any way contributing to the common good this forum tries to enable.
And I think that sarcasm is the lowest form of wit, as I said before...Dawie wrote:... honourable member's last statement as his language usage is somewhat confusing.
I feel that this post should be locked.
Ol7max, discussions certainly don't have to go my way - but I suppose they have to kept to a certain degree of cordiality between the interested parties. I don't see what good there is in abusing someone because of their proficiency in English. If anything, I think it's utterly rude, to say the least. My understanding is that the key objective of this forum is to provide help to people and to discuss matters that are of benefit/interest to all. I'm old enough to know (as you, I suppose), that when you post on a forum, there is bound to be different opinions, and I am entitled to mine as well. I do not feel we, as a group, are producing anything of "value" in this discussion - just a pointless rude discussion whether one's capability of English is good enough to be taken seriously, and sarcastic commenting.OL7MAX wrote:Why lock the thread? You seem to show a disproportionate interest in locking threads when the discussion isn't going your way.
With all due respect, I don't think that by not replying to a particular opinion I subscribe to it. Please do not read my silence as agreement.OL7MAX wrote: People can insinuate that Asians are largely crooks and you let that pass but if someone maintains that a person can't be separated from his opinion...
Someone's got to do the job - thank you for appreciating.Dawie wrote: Thank goodness we have you to protect the poor readers of this forum from my acidic tongue.
