ILR Letter, Referees, Absence dates and supporting docs-help

[AG]

Hi I am just about to apply for naturalization and I should have a very straight forward case since i have been here for 10 years + 1y ILR (studying+working now) and I am looking to apply now. I have few questions as i am not sure regarding some aspects of the application process:

1. what is an ILR Letter? I applied for ILR via solicitor and recieved just stamped passport back and hence never heard of that letter which is apparently needed if you apply for naturalization. what is the reality?

2. I got two referees both british who know me for 4 and 5 years respectively. Does it rally make a difference if a referee know me for lets say 10? also what if one of my referees has a dual citizenship?

3. I cannot remember all my exact absence dates and how vital is it? what if i put approx and than they do not match with what they may have in their system?

4. What sort of supporting docs do i need and you would advise me to take? would letters from school, university certificates and letters from work help?

thank you very much i really appreciate your help

[ppron747]

Have you looked at Guide AN(NEW) - here, on the IND website?

Page 30 (Documentary evidence) says

Evidence of freedom from immigration time restrictions
l The applicant’s passport showing permission to remain permanently in
the UK OR
l The Home Office letter by which the applicant was given permission
to remain permanently in the UK

which answers your ILR letter question.

Page 27 says that referees must have known you for three years, and must be British citizens. It doesn't say they can't be dual nationals.

The Guide doesn't say what to do if you can't remember the exact dates of your absences. My own inclination would be to give as accurate an account as possible - would your employer's leave records help? Or credit card statements? If you are not absolutely certain of all dates, make sure that you make this clear when completing the form, so that if they don't tie up with IND records, they won't think you're trying to pull a fast one...

On documentary evidence, consult the last few pages of the Guide. I don't think that degree certificates, testimonials, etc are going to help - they'll have your referees to consult if they want to, and there's no point in flooding them with information they're not asking for.

Will you be using NCS to submit the application? It's probably a good idea. It tends to speed up the process, and means that you can keep hold of your passport and other important documents, because they'll make copies.

And have you passed the "Life in UK" test?

[Marco 72]

Hi AG,

I am in the same position as you (been here several years, got my ILR almost a year ago).

1. The ILR letter. Your solicitor should have forwarded to you a letter from the Home Office's Immigration and Nationality Directorate in which they state they have granted your ILR. It's most unlikely that the IND forgot to send this. Are you sure you haven't got it? This letter is very important, even if you don't want to apply for naturalisation. If you were to get a new passport you would need to send it to the IND together with the letter to get a new ILR stamp in it.

2. Referees. It doesn't make any difference if you've known them longer than 3 years or if they are dual nationals. The only important thing is that they must not be your solicitor/agent, a relative of yours, or related to each other. They must also be of good character and have (or have had at some point) a British passport.

3. Absences. Get a bank statement going back several years. I got one last year for £5. From it you should be able to reconstruct the approximate dates of your absences. Make them a bit longer if you're not sure, and bring this up when you speak to the NCS before submitting your application. I can't say for sure, but looking at their guide I have a gut feeling that they are not too strict about this (for example, they state openly that they may well grant residence based applications even when one has been absent longer than 450 days).

4. Supporting documents: take your university certificates, P60's, letters from current and former employers and a bank statement going back the previous five years. You have probably got some of these from your ILR application anyway. You may not need them, but it's useful to have as much documentation as possible to show that you meet the residence requirements.

5. When you feel you are ready, make an appointment with the Nationality Checking Service (NCS), as ppron747 recommended. Show them what you've got. They will tell you if it's enough or not, and if not what else to bring.

By the way, since we are in the same boat you may want to drop me a private message or an email so we can exchange advice.

[ppron747]

Just to comment on the "ILR letter" issue.

If there is one, it's probably important to keep it, because it's a useful back-up to the endorsement in the passport. BUT not everyone gets one. It is entirely possible that AG's passport was returned to his/her solicitor with a compliments slip or form letter that doesn't give the details of the individual and is therefore of little value as evidence.

So, by all means ask your solicitor if you want to, AG, but don't go in with all guns blazing!

I should also say that it is not necessary to have an ILR endorsement transferred to a new passport. You can simply present the old passport as well. This shouldn't, however, arise once an individual has British citizenship - British citizens have the right of abode in the UK, and the ILR endorsement in the person's foreign passport is no longer appropriate, as ILR cannot apply to a person with ROA, whatever passport they choose to travel on. If you want an endorsement in your non-British passport, a Certificate of Entitlement to the Right of Abode is the thing to go for - a snip at £20 - for now, anyway...

[Marco 72]

Sorry, I assumed that everyone got such a letter because I got one with ILR last December and one for my 5 year permit. Also my wife got one with her 5 year residence permit. The ILR letter sounded very important, like the kind of document you don't want to lose. I haven't got it here at work so I can't quote from it. What happens if someone without such a letter loses his passport?

I agree in any case that the letter is not important when it comes to applying for naturalisation (as long as one has a passport with an ILR stamp on it). Sorry, I should have made this clear.

[ppron747]

...What happens if someone without such a letter loses his passport?...

I think that you just have to hope that the IND computer has the record - which shouldn't be a problem except perhaps if the ILR was granted decades ago, when "digital" meant something to do with fingers... I'm sure the old records are supposed to have been captured, but wouldn't relish the thought of relying on the dedication of a temp who knew that he/she was leaving at the end of the week....

I think it's a good idea to take photocopies of all such things, and leave them in as many safe places as you can think of!

[AG]

thak you for that info it is very helpful

Adding you bank statement, p60 and uni certificates-how much does it really add value?

is it ok to send copys of university certificates?

thank you

[AG]

In fact what is interesting I was just told by my solicitor thta home office does not issue these letters any more and that i just need a certified copy of my passport with my ILR in it.

Do NCS do the certified copy of passport?

thank you

[ppron747]

I think the point is that if the documents you mention support your claim to meet the residence requirement, then they'll be useful. But don't include them simply to increase the weight of your application.

[ppron747]

In fact what is interesting I was just told by my solicitor thta home office does not issue these letters any more.....

I don't know whether this is true or not. There are people who apply for ILR who are unable to get passports - eg refugees - so I wonder what IND does in these circumstances, if they don't issue a letter?

Do NCS do the certified copy of passport?

As I understand it, they take copies of ALL important documents, and give the originals straight back to you

[Marco 72]

When were you issued with ILR? I got mine in December 2005. I also went through a solicitor, but have no plans to do so for naturalisation.

About the NCS: yes, they should make certified copies of all documents they need, including your passport. That's one of the advantages of using it.

About the residence documents, the nationality guide does mention you should bring

Letters from employers, educational establishments or other
Government Departments indicating the applicant’s presence in the
United Kingdom during the relevant period OR
(For applicants from Switzerland or the European Economic Area)
evidence of attempts to obtain work during the relevant period

However, I have doubts as to whether this list is correct or exhaustive. For example, take someone who was granted ILR on the basis of being financially self sufficient for a number of years. What letters from employers, etc, could they possibly bring? In some other country I'd get a bit worried about this, but my personal experience is that UK bureaucrats tend to be sensible and practical people, at least compared to many of their foreign colleagues. Since you probably have some documents which you can use as proof of residence from your ILR application, you might as well bring those. For my application I'm going to use a letter from my current employer and a bank statement. Not much point in getting in touch with previous employers, since back then I wasn't working continuously or full time.

By the way, don't forget that you need to have been physically present in the UK five years before your application. So if you were out of the country on 10 November 2001 you shouldn't apply on 10 November 2006.

[Dawie]

If you have all your passports from your entire stay in the UK with all your visas in them then this is sufficient to prove that you meet the residence requirement. There is no need for bank statements, P60's, etc unless you've lost your passports.

[Marco 72]

I don't think that would work, since a passport doesn't show when you entered or left the country. My wife has a five year residence permit in her (US) passport but it never gets stamped when she leaves the country or comes back. And of course EU passports never get stamped, even when you come in as a tourist.

[Dawie]

I don't think that would work, since a passport doesn't show when you entered or left the country. My wife has a five year residence permit in her (US) passport but it never gets stamped when she leaves the country or comes back.

It's states quite clearly on page 30 of the guidance notes for naturalisation applications that all you need for proof of residence is your previous and current passports. It also states that if you cannot provide these you need to explain why on page 14 of the application form and THEN supply letters from employers, educational establishments or other government departments.

In my opinion it is quite clear from the guidance notes that your previous and current passports are all you need to prove the residence requirements. Other forms of evidence are only necessary if you cannot provide these.

[Marco 72]

Sorry, but that's not quite what the guide says. I will quote it here exactly:

APPLICATIONS MADE ON THE BASIS OF RESIDENCE IN THE
UNITED KINGDOM
Evidence of lawful residence during the 5 (or, if the applicant is
married to a British citizen, 3) years before the date of the application

The applicant’s passports OR say why you are unable to provide one
on page 14 and supply
- Letters from employers, educational establishments or other
Government Departments indicating the applicant’s presence in the
United Kingdom during the relevant period OR
- (For applicants from Switzerland or the European Economic Area)
evidence of attempts to obtain work during the relevant period

(my emphasis). You will notice that there is an "OR" between the second and the third item, but not between the first and the second, where it says "and supply". In other words, the applicant needs to provide his passport (or say why he is unable to provide one) and in addition to that he needs to supply either letters from employers, etc, or evidence of attempts to find work.

I would be very happy if all I needed to supply for proof of residence were my passport, but unfortunately that's not the case.

[Dawie]

I beg to differ, that's exactly what the guidance notes say. The second and third items are only applicable if you do not have a passport to show them. The term "and supply" is conditional on you not having a passport.

I would be very happy if all I needed to supply for proof of residence were my passport, but unfortunately that's not the case.

It is the case. I know 3 people who have naturalised and all of them only had to show their passports to meet the residence requirement. You know why? Because that's what it quite clearly says in the guidance notes.

[Marco 72]

I see, so what the guide meant to say was

(The applicant’s passports) OR (say why you are unable to provide one
on page 14 and supply
- Letters from employers, educational establishments or other
Government Departments indicating the applicant’s presence [...] )

That's very good news. Thanks.

[Dawie]

Marco, please have a look at this set of policy instructions that IND supply to their caseworkers:

http://www.ind.homeoffice.gov.uk/docume ... iew=Binary

Checking the residence requirements
2.1 We should assess whether the applicant has met the residence
requirements from checking the following:
• original passport(s) or travel document(s) and any Home Office papers;
or
• failing these, any other evidence (e.g. employer's letters, a Seaman's
Record Book, tax and National Insurance letters)
- 2 -
NB. Passports will not necessarily be stamped to show embarkation from
the United Kingdom. In these and other circumstances (e.g. involving lost or
stolen passports), applicants should be given the benefit of any doubt where
claimed absences cannot be otherwise verified but are within the limits we
would normally allow and there are no grounds to doubt the accuracy of the
claim. Doctors' letters, on their own, are not normally acceptable proof of
residence. However, if nothing else is available and the doctors can confirm
that they have seen the applicant on a regular basis during the period
concerned these may be accepted. A Seaman's Record Book may be
accepted as evidence that there have been no excess absences, but it is not
conclusive proof that there have been excess absences, since it only
contains dates of the seaman's joining and discharge from a ship rather than
dates of the ship's sailing from and arrival in United Kingdom ports. Letters
from shipping companies, listing sailing and arrival dates, may need to be
requested in suspected excess absence cases involving seamen.

Hope that's clear enough for you. Sorry, I should have posted this document with my original post!

[AG]

Do you think it can be an issue if my name is spelt differently by a referee on a reference sheet?

On my application i put my first name as it is spelt in the passport but my referees put it as they know me, there is not a large deviation but still if i explain that on page 14 will it be ok?

thanx

[Dawie]

Do you think it can be an issue if my name is spelt differently by a referee on a reference sheet?

On my application i put my first name as it is spelt in the passport but my referees put it as they know me, there is not a large deviation but still if i explain that on page 14 will it be ok?

thanx

If I were you I would print out a new application form and get your referees to resign the form and spell your name correctly. If they really are people who have known you for 3 years or longer I'm sure they wouldn't mind spelling your name properly! Otherwise just fill in the part where they have mention your name yourself and get them to sign it.

[ppron747]

I can't see that it would be a problem myself, if, as you say, the difference is only minor and it's pretty clear that it is only a variation in spelling...

[Marco 72]

Dawie: thanks for the link to the site with the policy instructions, it was most interesting. The guide itself wasn't too clear, in my opinion, so I thought applicants actually had to prove they met the residence requirements. It makes sense after all that they don't: residence is already checked during one's ILR application.

[Marco 72]

It's states quite clearly on page 30 of the guidance notes for naturalisation applications that all you need for proof of residence is your previous and current passports. It also states that if you cannot provide these you need to explain why on page 14 of the application form and THEN supply letters from employers, educational establishments or other government departments.

Unfortunately this is wrong. I have just called Camden NCS and they were quite adamant that I needed to show them evidence I have been here for at least five years. Passports don't count, since they aren't stamped for EU citizens...

[Dawie]

It's states quite clearly on page 30 of the guidance notes for naturalisation applications that all you need for proof of residence is your previous and current passports. It also states that if you cannot provide these you need to explain why on page 14 of the application form and THEN supply letters from employers, educational establishments or other government departments.

Unfortunately this is wrong. I have just called Camden NCS and they were quite adamant that I needed to show them evidence I have been here for at least five years. Passports don't count, since they aren't stamped for EU citizens...

It may be wrong for EU citizens but it is definitely correct for non-EU citizens.