HSMP Approval Letter with Tier 1 Entry clearance

shedy789 · Post by **shedy789** » Mon Mar 12, 2012 6:04 pm

Hi,
I'm really impressed with the information available on this forum. The senior experts are really doing great job. However I wanted to discuss my case, I would appreciate if someone can give me advice on that. My details are as follows,
Date of application for HSMP Letter: December 20, 2007 ( from Pakistan)
HSMP letter approval Date: 15 January, 2008 ( valide till July 15, 2008)
Application Date of EC: June 20, 2008
EC Rejection Date: Sepctember 03, 2008
Appeal against EC refusal: September 18, 2008
Appeal Approved date: April 06, 2010 ( one and half year)
Visa issued : Tier 1 ( general)
Visa issued Date: May 11, 2010 ( for 3 Years)
Visa Expiry Date: May 11, 2013
Date of Arrival in UK: April 03, 2011
Dependants : four ( Three kids and wife)

Keeping in view the above information, I want to ask few question,

1- If I go for FLR which criteria I have to follow, do I need to score Tier 1 general points for everything OR my case comes under Tranistional arrangement for HSMP approval Letter and I will be automaticall awarded 75 points except for maintenenca funds
2- If my case comes under Transitional arrangement for HSMP, Do I need to provide Original HSMP approval letter which I don't have at the moment as I have already submitted with my EC documents for the first time.
3- Can I also provide my adminsitrative review decisaion as a proof stating PBS points system not applicable.
4- What maintenance funds need to provide in such case

I shall be grateful for your expert opinion

Regard,

rakeysh.patel · Post by **rakeysh.patel** » Wed Mar 14, 2012 2:36 pm

Criteria applied will be the ones in place when you successfully applied for your TIER 1 Entry clearance

shedy789 · Post by **shedy789** » Wed Mar 14, 2012 4:47 pm

Thanks for your reply, but if you look at the details, I orginally applied under HSMP catagory on June 20, 2008 ( at that time no PBS system was there as per rules inforced before June 30, 2008), then my EC clearance rejected at that time and after the appeal I was awarded Tier 1 visa for three years in May, 2010.
Now when I will go for FLR in whether I have to give details to score points for my education, expereince, Age as per points based system I will be awarded 75 points under eppendix A and 10 points for Apeendix B ( english language) automatically as I oringially applied for HSMP.

Regards,

rakeysh.patel · Post by **rakeysh.patel** » Wed Mar 14, 2012 4:49 pm

That is correct. I am same as yours except a EC Rejection. Applied in March 08, got the T1 in March 09

shedy789 · Post by **shedy789** » Wed Mar 14, 2012 4:54 pm

You mean I will be awarded points autmatically for Appendix A and B like points 75 and 10.

is that what you are suggesting?

rakeysh.patel · Post by **rakeysh.patel** » Wed Mar 14, 2012 4:56 pm

Sorry, I am confused a bit here. There were always points awarded for your education and earning etc. You will have to meet the criteria in place at the time you obtained your T1 Visa

shedy789 · Post by **shedy789** » Wed Mar 14, 2012 5:05 pm

Let me clarify correct me if I'm wrong there are two possibilities

1- You apply for entry clearance under PBS system as you were evaluated initially then you have to score points for age, education, UK experience, earnings if you orignially applied for Tier 1 visa, then you have to score these points.
2- The second scenario is the transition arrangement for people who have got HSMP initially and then later PBS system came in and they were transferred to Tier 1 and got the Tier 1 visa. these migrants will get 75 and 10 points automatically even they are do not score as per PBS. these migrants are not supposed to fillup the full PBS sections, they can skip the PBS section and just give details about the maintenance funds and that's it. They don't need to score points.

That's what I'm asking? which one applies to me?

rakeysh.patel · Post by **rakeysh.patel** » Wed Mar 14, 2012 5:09 pm

1 - YES
2 - NO, YOU STILL HAVE TO SCORE THE POINTS. THOSE POINTS AWARDED WERE AS LENIENT AS OLD HSMP RULES, AND THEY CALLED IT TRANSITIONAL AGREEMENTS.

Hope this makes sense.

shedy789 · Post by **shedy789** » Wed Mar 14, 2012 5:21 pm

Well My argument is the other way round, as you have got the HSMP, same rules will be applied to you even now, if you look into the phrase as mentioned below and published on UKBA site, you would give your idea about that?

Transitional arrangements for those with an HSMP approval letter
If you already have an HSMP approval letter, but you did not apply for permission to enter or stay as a highly skilled migrant, you will automatically score points for your attributes and for English language when you apply under Tier 1 (General).

You must complete all other appropriate sections of the relevant application form, including the maintenance (funds) section.

shedy789 · Post by **shedy789** » Wed Mar 14, 2012 5:24 pm

Please also comment on the following rule mentioned in the policy guidelines,

Transitional arrangements for applicants under Tier 1 (General) with a valid Highly Skilled Migrant Programme (HS MP) approval letter
Arrangements have been put in place for individuals who:
• On 29 February 2008 have already applied for/obtained an HSMP approval letter but have yet to apply for leave to remain as a highly skilled migrant;
Applicants who have a valid HSMP approval letter and apply under these arrangements will not need to complete the ‘Attributes’ or the English language sections of the application form. Points for attributes and for English language will be awarded automatically on the strength of the valid HSMP approval letter.
Such applicants must however continue to complete all other appropriate sections of the relevant application form, including the Maintenance (funds) section of the form.
Such applicants will be charged a reduced Tier 1 (General) fee for their application.
Please note that HSMP approval letters are valid for a period of six months from the date of issue.

rakeysh.patel · Post by **rakeysh.patel** » Wed Mar 14, 2012 5:25 pm

Are you questioning English language points9

rakeysh.patel · Post by **rakeysh.patel** » Wed Mar 14, 2012 5:28 pm

I'm driving atmo but brief read tells me that the below appliess to someone who has hsmp approval letter and have yet not obtained EC, which is pretty useless as hsmp letter is only valid for 6 months.

shedy789 wrote:Please also comment on the following rule mentioned in the policy guidelines,

Transitional arrangements for applicants under Tier 1 (General) with a valid Highly Skilled Migrant Programme (HS MP) approval letter
Arrangements have been put in place for individuals who:
• On 29 February 2008 have already applied for/obtained an HSMP approval letter but have yet to apply for leave to remain as a highly skilled migrant;
Applicants who have a valid HSMP approval letter and apply under these arrangements will not need to complete the ‘Attributes’ or the English language sections of the application form. Points for attributes and for English language will be awarded automatically on the strength of the valid HSMP approval letter.
Such applicants must however continue to complete all other appropriate sections of the relevant application form, including the Maintenance (funds) section of the form.
Such applicants will be charged a reduced Tier 1 (General) fee for their application.
Please note that HSMP approval letters are valid for a period of six months from the date of issue.

shedy789 · Post by **shedy789** » Wed Mar 14, 2012 5:29 pm

Yes and also the points for previous earning and as well as for your qualification because under HSMP, they have already awarded points for all these criterias and for FLR under HSMP the rules were different than current PBS system. My point is that if you have HSMP letter oringinally then you do not fall under current PBS system, you will still be awarded points for english, UK earnings as per old rules enforced before June 30, 2008.

I would like your comment on that?

rakeysh.patel · Post by **rakeysh.patel** » Wed Mar 14, 2012 5:32 pm

shedy789 wrote:Yes and also the points for previous earning and as well as for your qualification because under HSMP, they have already awarded points for all these criterias and for FLR under HSMP the rules were different than current PBS system. My point is that if you have HSMP letter oringinally then you do not fall under current PBS system, you will still be awarded points for english, UK earnings as per old rules enforced before June 30, 2008.

I would like your comment on that?

Again what ur reading is applicable to those who hace not applied for EC as yet, again useless point as mentioned above

shedy789 · Post by **shedy789** » Wed Mar 14, 2012 5:33 pm

In this rule they are talking about with reference to date February 29, 2008 ( they are taking scenario on that date) because they changed the rules later. So who so ever have status like that on February 29, 2008
will be judged accordinly and has the privilidge to avail that facility.

We can discuss later or you can go through in detail and we can discuss or you can get any third opinion about ?

Cheers

rakeysh.patel · Post by **rakeysh.patel** » Wed Mar 14, 2012 5:43 pm

shedy789 wrote:Well My argument is the other way round, as you have got the HSMP, same rules will be applied to you even now, if you look into the phrase as mentioned below and published on UKBA site, you would give your idea about that?

Transitional arrangements for those with an HSMP approval letter
If you already have an HSMP approval letter, but you did not apply for permission to enter or stay as a highly skilled migrant, you will automatically score points for your attributes and for English language when you apply under Tier 1 (General).

You must complete all other appropriate sections of the relevant application form, including the maintenance (funds) section.

Meaning:
1 - You have not applied for EC (applying from outside of the UK) yet (Wording used - apply for permission to enter)
2 - You have not transition from say Student visa to HSMP/T1 Visa (wording used - stay as HSMP)

rakeysh.patel · Post by **rakeysh.patel** » Wed Mar 14, 2012 5:45 pm

shedy789 wrote:Please also comment on the following rule mentioned in the policy guidelines,

Transitional arrangements for applicants under Tier 1 (General) with a valid Highly Skilled Migrant Programme (HS MP) approval letter
Arrangements have been put in place for individuals who:
• On 29 February 2008 have already applied for/obtained an HSMP approval letter but have yet to apply for leave to remain as a highly skilled migrant;
Applicants who have a valid HSMP approval letter and apply under these arrangements will not need to complete the ‘Attributes’ or the English language sections of the application form. Points for attributes and for English language will be awarded automatically on the strength of the valid HSMP approval letter.
Such applicants must however continue to complete all other appropriate sections of the relevant application form, including the Maintenance (funds) section of the form.
Such applicants will be charged a reduced Tier 1 (General) fee for their application.
Please note that HSMP approval letters are valid for a period of six months from the date of issue.

Meaning - Same as above

rakeysh.patel · Post by **rakeysh.patel** » Wed Mar 14, 2012 5:49 pm

What you are reading only refers to those who have had HSMP letter (which by this time would have expired) and yet to get into the UK under that visa category.

I remember, when I applied for my stay in the UK (switching from than student visa to HSMP/T1) - when UKBA returned the passport with T1 stamp - the letter confirmed -
Age - Points awarded as per HSMP application.
Education - Same
Earning - Same

That tells me that what you are reading only applied to EC and not extension. Furthermore, there are lenient rules for the old boys

shedy789 · Post by **shedy789** » Thu Mar 15, 2012 9:35 am

As per my understanding, each case is being handled by immigration department based on the date when it was acutally applied the first time. Let's say if you have got HSMP before february 29, 2008 and even today if you apply for further leave to remain or even ILR, your application will be treated based on the rules enforced at that time. As the UKBA keep on changing rules every 6 moths or quite frequently they made transition arrangements for the applicants for every stage till the effectees finish the full immigration process i.e either got ILR or do not qulaify. That's why they always mention on the website about quite old dates for example February 29, 2008 or about rules avalaible in different dates. Everybody can understand by looking on the rules that why to mention HSMP at this time as this scheme has been terminated all over the world on June 29, 2008. UKBA is not giving irrelevant rules at this time if they are not applicable.

I hope I'm able to explain my point here.
I would definitely like somebody else to give comments on that who has got initially HSMP and then later was issued Tier 1 visa because there was no HSMP visa available and he/she got Further leave to remain or ILR based on transition arrangements or according to old rules.

Thanks

shedy789 · Post by **shedy789** » Thu Mar 15, 2012 10:02 am

Please follow the link for Eligibility for extending your further stay as Tier 1 General as below,

http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/visas ... igibility/

Then go onto following information,

If you have an HSMP approval letter
If you have an HSMP approval letter, see the Transitional arrangements for the Highly Skilled Migrant Programme page for more information.

Then go onto Transitional arrangements ( These arrangements for all those candidates who originally have HSMP letter and then given Tier 1 General Visa)

rakeysh.patel · Post by **rakeysh.patel** » Thu Mar 15, 2012 10:35 am

You are only reading what you want to and convincing yourself in a way you are wishing to. Here is my understanding of that paragraph:

Transitional arrangements for those with an HSMP approval letter

If you already have an HSMP approval letter,

but you did not apply for permission to enter

meaning you have not yet enter the UK under HSMP Visa

or stay as a highly skilled migrant

converted your current visa which ay be student or work permit or working holiday maker etc into HSMP Visa

you will automatically score points for your attributes and for English language when you apply under Tier 1 (General)

I have already agreed that you would be awarded this point at the time of your initial EC or permission to stay under HSMP.

You must complete all other appropriate sections of the relevant application form, including the maintenance (funds) section.

You would always need to meet this

You will be charged a reduced fee for your application under the highly skilled worker category.

You would have paid the reduced fees at the time when you applied for EC (the time when your case unfortunately got declined)

HSMP approval letters are valid for 6 months from the date of issue.

THIS IS THE MOST IMPORTANT PART TO READ AND READ BETWEEN THE LINES. YOUR HSMP APPROVAL LETTER IS ONLY VALID FOR 6 MONTHS. NO ONE WOULD HAVE THIS UNLESS SOME POORLY PERSON STILL WAITING ON THE HSMP APPLICATION HE/SHE MADE IN 2008 !!! INDIRECTLY, THE LINE ABOVE SAYS NONE OF THE ABOVE WOULD APPLY IN A CASE IF YOU ARE EXTENDING YOUR VISA. THE ABOVE WOULD APPLY ONLY TO THOSE WHO ARE STILL AWAITING ON THEIR HSMP APPLICATION.

shedy789 · Post by **shedy789** » Thu Mar 15, 2012 2:03 pm

No I don't want to read what I want to rather please read the full phrase Whatever you mentioned in RED LINES these are with reference to date on or before February 29, 2008. They are telling us the scenario that if ON or BEFORE FERUARY 29, 2008 you have VALID HSMP LETTER and till that date you have not gone for EC, then you will be awarded 75 +10 points, right this clause is given under transition arrangments for those who want to extend their stay as TIER 1 General. This imporant lines are with relevant to dat 29 February, 2008.
The reason why I'm saying that you cannot implement new laws to older applications rather you need to provide some way out or special arrangement for old application ( as mentioned in the paragraph below on UKBA under policy guide line for entension for TIER 1 General) as stated below,
Please read the full ANNEX-B, I hope you will get the answer
Anne x B - Transitional Arrangements For Applicants Who May Be Affected By The Tier 1 (General) Rules Changes

Tier 1 (General) of the points based system has been implemented in a phased manner:
• On 29 February 2008, Tier 1 (General) was introduced in the UK and the Immigration Rules for leave to remain as a highly skilled migrant were deleted;
• On 1 April 2008, Tier 1 (General) was introduced in India and the Immigration Rules for entry clearance as a highly skilled migrant in respect of applications made in India, were deleted;
• On 30 June 2008, Tier 1 (General) was introduced throughout the rest of the world, and the remaining Immigration Rules for entry clearance as a highly skilled migrant, were deleted.
The above changes have had the following impact:
Applications for highly skilled migrant programme (HSMP) approval letters
• In-country applications for HSMP approval letters made on or before 28 February 2008 will be processed;
• In-country applications for HSMP approval letters made on or after 29 February 2008 will not be processed and will be returned;
• Applications for HSMP approval letters, from India, made on or before 31 March 2008 will be processed;
• Applications for HSMP approval letters, from India, made on or after 1 April 2008 will not be processed and will be returned;
• Applications for HSMP approval letters, from any country other than India or the United Kingdom, on or before 29 June 2008 will be processed;
• Applications for HSMP approval letters made on or after 30 June 2008 will not be processed and will be returned.
Transitional arrangements for applicants under Tier 1 (General) with a valid Highly Skilled Migrant Programme (HS MP) approval letter
Arrangements have been put in place for individuals who:
• On 29 February 2008 have already applied for/obtained an HSMP approval letter but have yet to apply for leave to remain as a highly skilled migrant;
Applicants who have a valid HSMP approval letter and apply under these arrangements will not need to complete the ‘Attributes’ or the English language sections of the application form. Points for attributes and for English language will be awarded automatically on the strength of the valid HSMP approval letter.
Such applicants must however continue to complete all other appropriate sections of the relevant application form, including the Maintenance (funds) section of the form.
Such applicants will be charged a reduced Tier 1 (General) fee for their application.
Please note that HSMP approval letters are valid for a period of six months from the date of issue.

shedy789 · Post by **shedy789** » Thu Mar 15, 2012 2:05 pm

Please read this phase in full don't cut it,

• On 29 February 2008 have already applied for/obtained an HSMP approval letter but have yet to apply for leave to remain as a highly skilled migrant;
Applicants who have a valid HSMP approval letter and apply under these arrangements will not need to complete the ‘Attributes’ or the English language sections of the application form. Points for attributes and for English language will be awarded automatically on the strength of the valid HSMP approval letter.
Such applicants must however continue to complete all other appropriate sections of the relevant application form, including the Maintenance (funds) section of the form.

shedy789 · Post by **shedy789** » Thu Mar 15, 2012 2:11 pm

The best way is to find an immigrant who have gone through it in a similar situation where he/she has got HSMP out of UK then got TIER1 and then got extension to remain. He/She would give the right answer but not yet apart from you ( I'm thankful) have turned up on this issue?

Thnx

sudimk · Post by **sudimk** » Mon May 14, 2012 11:32 am

shedy789 wrote:No I don't want to read what I want to rather please read the full phrase Whatever you mentioned in RED LINES these are with reference to date on or before February 29, 2008. They are telling us the scenario that if ON or BEFORE FERUARY 29, 2008 you have VALID HSMP LETTER and till that date you have not gone for EC, then you will be awarded 75 +10 points, right this clause is given under transition arrangments for those who want to extend their stay as TIER 1 General. This imporant lines are with relevant to dat 29 February, 2008.
The reason why I'm saying that you cannot implement new laws to older applications rather you need to provide some way out or special arrangement for old application ( as mentioned in the paragraph below on UKBA under policy guide line for entension for TIER 1 General) as stated below,
Please read the full ANNEX-B, I hope you will get the answer
Anne x B - Transitional Arrangements For Applicants Who May Be Affected By The Tier 1 (General) Rules Changes

Tier 1 (General) of the points based system has been implemented in a phased manner:
• On 29 February 2008, Tier 1 (General) was introduced in the UK and the Immigration Rules for leave to remain as a highly skilled migrant were deleted;
• On 1 April 2008, Tier 1 (General) was introduced in India and the Immigration Rules for entry clearance as a highly skilled migrant in respect of applications made in India, were deleted;
• On 30 June 2008, Tier 1 (General) was introduced throughout the rest of the world, and the remaining Immigration Rules for entry clearance as a highly skilled migrant, were deleted.
The above changes have had the following impact:
Applications for highly skilled migrant programme (HSMP) approval letters
• In-country applications for HSMP approval letters made on or before 28 February 2008 will be processed;
• In-country applications for HSMP approval letters made on or after 29 February 2008 will not be processed and will be returned;
• Applications for HSMP approval letters, from India, made on or before 31 March 2008 will be processed;
• Applications for HSMP approval letters, from India, made on or after 1 April 2008 will not be processed and will be returned;
• Applications for HSMP approval letters, from any country other than India or the United Kingdom, on or before 29 June 2008 will be processed;
• Applications for HSMP approval letters made on or after 30 June 2008 will not be processed and will be returned.
Transitional arrangements for applicants under Tier 1 (General) with a valid Highly Skilled Migrant Programme (HS MP) approval letter
Arrangements have been put in place for individuals who:
• On 29 February 2008 have already applied for/obtained an HSMP approval letter but have yet to apply for leave to remain as a highly skilled migrant;
Applicants who have a valid HSMP approval letter and apply under these arrangements will not need to complete the ‘Attributes’ or the English language sections of the application form. Points for attributes and for English language will be awarded automatically on the strength of the valid HSMP approval letter.
Such applicants must however continue to complete all other appropriate sections of the relevant application form, including the Maintenance (funds) section of the form.
Such applicants will be charged a reduced Tier 1 (General) fee for their application.
Please note that HSMP approval letters are valid for a period of six months from the date of issue.

Hello folks,

Dunno if this helps, but I thought you could take some pointers fro my case below!

I am also a victim of this unusual case of Tier 1 Genral Visa transitional mirgrant.

My scenario is even more complicated.

My application for HSMP approval letter was received by the UKBA on 14th of Jan 2008, but I got my letter from them posted back to me only in June 2008 (reprint). Thanks to the postal department for the delay.
So I made an application for the Entry clearance in November 2008 and in December 2008 my visa appliacation was rejected citing insufficient funds shown. However, this was a blatant mistake committed by the case worker and I went for an admin review challenge petition and I was successfully granted a visa in May 2009 which was a Tier 1 general visa.

I just called the UKBA a while ago and mentioned my case and the person told me that if I provide sufficient documentation to prove that there was an admin review and my visa issual was delayed, then I automatically score points for english lanugage requirements and other attributes.

To be on the safer side, I am also going through a solicitor, who says this issue must be covered by the case of arrangements for transitional applications and he sees no problem.

The open question however is that, I do not know if the reduced fee is still applicable for me or if it is safe to pay the full fees for Tier 1.

Best regards,
Sudarshan

Immigrationboards.com: Immigration, work visa and work permit discussion board

HSMP Approval Letter with Tier 1 Entry clearance

HSMP Approval Letter with Tier 1 Entry clearance

RE: Transitional arrangements for Tier1 visa holders HSMP