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HSMP Scheme Suspended

Archived UK Tier 1 (General) points system forum. This route no longer exists.

Moderators: Casa, Amber, archigabe, batleykhan, ca.funke, ChetanOjha, EUsmileWEallsmile, JAJ, John, Obie, push, geriatrix, vinny, CR001, zimba, meself2, Administrator

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sjgul
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Location: Bristol

Post by sjgul » Wed Nov 08, 2006 12:46 pm

i agree with first2class4, I know I will be able to qualify for FLR , but I think now I am being compelled to consider coming back to India as geeting a salary of 15L INR in India is very easy for me , getting £ 35k - £40K is the max range in UK in Telecom domain and above that , we have lots of tensions of new regulations of FLR and who knows aht will happen for ILR.

Another route is to US via H1B which offers lots of IT , Telecom jobs with best salaries but this country I believe is in no mood to tolerate (specifically Asians). Initially Doctors were the ones who were targetted and now slowly and gradually other domains.

arm
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Joined: Mon Jul 10, 2006 9:59 am

Post by arm » Wed Nov 08, 2006 1:19 pm

captain74,

General will be enough.

captain74
Junior Member
Posts: 87
Joined: Tue Dec 06, 2005 11:25 am
Location: London

Post by captain74 » Wed Nov 08, 2006 1:33 pm

abcd1

I fully agree with you and do not see any point in having faith in the system any longer. It has repeatedly failed the legal migrants and there is no reason to believe that it would not do so again in a few years time and deny one the right to settle here at all.

At this moment I have no choice but to apply for an extension under the new regime as my current HSMP visa expires next month. However, I am quite clear in my mind that this country does not want me here any more. And I am not the type to outstay my welcome - specially when I am being made to pay for it through my nose.

I have hence decided to take my skills - whatever they are worth - somewhere else as soon as possible.

High taxes (while others pay none and live off your contributions!) and occassional beloved I can handle but betrayal I can not.

rella
Member
Posts: 196
Joined: Sat Apr 17, 2004 1:59 am

Post by rella » Wed Nov 08, 2006 1:52 pm

It's very disheartening. I think that anyone who can, will be looking for new countries who won't mistreat their most highly skilled migrants like this. It truly feels like a slap in the face for playing by all the rules and doing the right thing and trying to contribute to their economy and society -- to be shown the door for your efforts. And who knows what they will pull next? Who wants to build up a large business or buy a house or invest here? We could be sent out tomorrow without any warning.

I'm more sad than angry. I'm just so tired of this.

captain74
Junior Member
Posts: 87
Joined: Tue Dec 06, 2005 11:25 am
Location: London

Post by captain74 » Wed Nov 08, 2006 2:03 pm

Moderators

Can we try to have this discussion posted on the BBC Have Your Say Website?

There may be more people affected beyond the member/viewership of this forum.

In any case, I think it would be a good idea to have more general public know how immigrants feel about the treatment they get here in Britain. God knows we have had enough opinion from the general public on immigrants. Time to give them the other side of the story I think.

What do others feel about this?

rella
Member
Posts: 196
Joined: Sat Apr 17, 2004 1:59 am

Post by rella » Wed Nov 08, 2006 4:21 pm

Honestly, I don't think the British public cares. If we could show what £ amount that we contribute in taxes, maybe they'd care. But I seriously doubt that they'd care even then.

One thing that has really annoyed me is that with all these rule changes, the HO has never even granted any of us the courtesy of a letter or email, warning of the rule changes and explaining the impact. I wonder how many people won't know that they are no longer illegible or FLR until they go to apply for renewal. Some may have months before their extension is due, where they could possibly change their circumstances to have a better chance at being approved. But unless people watch these forums or the HO website, they'd have no way of knowing. If the HO is going to constantly change the rules from what we were told when we entered the country, they should at least notify us. That's the least they could do. We've certainly paid enough in fees to cover the cost of a mass email.

baskey
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Location: Milton Keyens

Post by baskey » Wed Nov 08, 2006 4:40 pm

I am totally upset with the new rules which affects the HSMP extension as well. I am getting 70 points only as per their new point systems. To get another 5 points , i need to raise my salary by another ca. 3K. Where as I am very well settled in present job and also its a permanent one. Since because i am not getting 3K more , will I be send out of this country after working here for 4 years, having bought a home, moved my family etc..I have to go out of this country?

I can't explain my irritation about the changes. Can we not jointly do something to protest the case.

Regds,

Baskey

hari15
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Post by hari15 » Wed Nov 08, 2006 4:53 pm

baskey wrote:I am totally upset with the new rules which affects the HSMP extension as well. I am getting 70 points only as per their new point systems. To get another 5 points , i need to raise my salary by another ca. 3K. Where as I am very well settled in present job and also its a permanent one. Since because i am not getting 3K more , will I be send out of this country after working here for 4 years, having bought a home, moved my family etc..I have to go out of this country?

I can't explain my irritation about the changes. Can we not jointly do something to protest the case.

Regds,

Baskey
Hi Baskey,

They have some grace period for those who are already settled well but not reaching 70 points. They have mentioned this in announcement.

You can move to workpermit scheme within that period.

You can make your employer to apply for your wp for another 1 year and you can get wp.


Once you reached total 5 years, apply for ILR thats it...

Rog
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Joined: Tue Sep 14, 2004 4:21 pm
Location: London

Post by Rog » Wed Nov 08, 2006 5:05 pm

This is an absolute slap in the face for hard working tax paying workers. People from East European countries come here and claim child benefit for children back in their home countries. Even plane hijackers are rewarded with British Passports.

We knew that those on three year extension after the first year would have to take another 1 year extension despite the three year extension letter claiming that at the end of three years we can apply for indefinite settlement ( can we take them to court for this as this amounts to a commitment in writing which is now being breached)

But this volte face from government means that we may have to meet point based criteria to secure the next 1 year extension after completing 4 years. So our four years of slogging and paying taxes doesn't mean anything. Also the whole issue is now of credibility of the UK government. What is the guarantee that after 5 years they do not place some new condition for ILR like having to own a property etc. I think this is a country only suitable for freeloaders living on benefits, the honest taxpaying hard workers are not welcome here.





chanelan
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Location: Daventry

Post by chanelan » Wed Nov 08, 2006 5:54 pm

hari15 wrote:
baskey wrote:I am totally upset with the new rules which affects the HSMP extension as well. I am getting 70 points only as per their new point systems. To get another 5 points , i need to raise my salary by another ca. 3K. Where as I am very well settled in present job and also its a permanent one. Since because i am not getting 3K more , will I be send out of this country after working here for 4 years, having bought a home, moved my family etc..I have to go out of this country?

I can't explain my irritation about the changes. Can we not jointly do something to protest the case.

Regds,

Baskey
Hi Baskey,

They have some grace period for those who are already settled well but not reaching 70 points. They have mentioned this in announcement.

You can move to workpermit scheme within that period.

You can make your employer to apply for your wp for another 1 year and you can get wp.


Once you reached total 5 years, apply for ILR thats it...


Hi Hari

Any more clarity on this grace period? Is this applicable at the end of 1+4 year or any specific date ?

Jeff Albright
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Location: Perth, Australia

Post by Jeff Albright » Wed Nov 08, 2006 6:55 pm

Unlike the others I am happy with these changes.
It makes a lot easier to apply for those who are UK educated and experienced. And the new rules will drive off and slow down the influx of foreigners. First and foremost, the advantage should be given to the qualified immigrants living in the UK.
It is great that they have stopped Significant and Exceptional Achievements - there have been so much fraud with it as well as with Work Experience. Furthermore, it was rather difficult to qualify for the Achievements for genuine applicants.
It is also a very good idea to boost points for Ph.D. qualifications and also for salaries, i.e. for those who have been contributing to the UK economy and paying taxes.
This is fair system.
Also, those who have established their careers here should be easy to extend the leave to remain by reassessing their skills with years, i.e. getting even more points. The UK skilled employees will have no problem with that.
Again, I fully support the idea for IELTS. No one can contribute to the industry in this country without proper command in English. And those who are UK educated should be exempt from it. This is fair.

The Programme will now appear to work as it should have always been.

buntosanya
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Location: Birmingham, England
Contact:

Post by buntosanya » Wed Nov 08, 2006 6:57 pm

I can't really take all this in. Can someone please explain to me how this will affect my application.

My initial 12 months is expiring on the 28th of Nov and my renewal application was sent and acknowledged by HO on the 16th of Oct. I was actually looking forward to receiving my passport back sometimes next week before this bombshell.

Please I will like to know if it means my application will be suspended till Dec 5 and treated under the new rule.

Thanks.
"Behold, i have set before thee an open door, and no man can shut it."

buntosanya
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Location: Birmingham, England
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Post by buntosanya » Wed Nov 08, 2006 7:02 pm

Jeff

I think that is an unfair comment considering the fact that there are some people who are qualified and have not been able to get a job in their area of qualification.

Not being qualified in a highly demand sector does not make one less qualified. Maybe UK Govt. shouldn't have encouraged them to come in the first place if there is no demand for them.
"Behold, i have set before thee an open door, and no man can shut it."

bergdorf
Newbie
Posts: 33
Joined: Sat Jan 21, 2006 12:14 pm
Location: Fabulous London

Re: Extension Points

Post by bergdorf » Wed Nov 08, 2006 7:13 pm

junior wrote:Hello,

Can you kindly let me know from where have you checked the new point system for extension, as this information, I was not able to find on the workingtheuk website.

That shall be helpful.

Many thanks

regards
Junior
New Extension Guidance Notes

New Extension Form - http://www.workingintheuk.gov.uk/workin ... (HSMP).doc

ATBPLC
Junior Member
Posts: 98
Joined: Fri Aug 18, 2006 7:33 pm

Post by ATBPLC » Wed Nov 08, 2006 7:33 pm

THE QUESTIONS ARE:

WHY ADMINISTER THE CHANGE ON THOSE WHO HAD SETTLED IN UK, SOME WITH THEIR FAMILIESA?

WHY THE AGE DISCRIMINATION. CAN ONE SUDDENLY CHANGE HIS/HER AGE AFTER ARRIVING UK. HO SAW THE VARIOUS AGES AND APPROVED VISA FOR THOSE ABOVE 35. WHY NOW DISCRIMINATING AGAINST THEM?

IS HO NOT AWARE OF THE DIFFICULTIES FACED BY HSMP IN GETTING SKILLED AND WELL PAID JOBS?

HOW MANY HSMP ARE IN THE WAGE BRACKET OF £18,000 AND ABOVE?

WHAT WILL HAPPEN TO THOSE WHO WERE GIVEN 3 YEAR EXTENSION AND THEREFORE WILL NEED ONLY ONE YEAR EXTENSION BEFORE SETTLEMENT WHEN OTHERS IN THEIR CATEGORY WERE LUCKY TO GET 4YEARS EXTENSION

ATBPLC
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Post by ATBPLC » Wed Nov 08, 2006 7:36 pm

BY WAY OF INFORMATION AND FOR US TO KNOW THAT HURDLES ARE BEING CREATED TO FRUSTRATE HSMP PLEASE SEE THE FOLLOWING COPIED FROM THE PAPER PRESENTED TO PARLIAMENT BY THE SECRETARY OF STATE FOR HOME DEPARTMENT IN MARCH 2006

"With an expanded European Union there is an accessible and mobile workforce already contributing to our growing economy, closing many gaps experienced by employers. In a changing environment where our European commitments provide many opportunities for the UK to benefit from this new source of labour, it is right that we look again at migration to the UK as a whole. Our starting point is that employers should look first to recruit from the UK and the expanded EU before recruiting migrants from outside the EU.
7.
Migration needs to be properly managed. It is understandable that people migrate to seek a better life for themselves and their families. But this can leave settled populations, including many in the UK, concerned about the impact on jobs, public services and their way of life. The system should therefore be focused primarily on bringing in migrants who are highly skilled or to do key jobs that cannot be filled from the domestic labour force or from the EU. It should also help facilitate the entry of international students who rightly see the UK as a world leader in the provision of higher and further education, and in the teaching of English."


WE CAN DEDUCE THE REASON FOR ALL THESE CHANGES FROM THE ABOVE

bergdorf
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Post by bergdorf » Wed Nov 08, 2006 7:39 pm

I'm going to be in the minority here, and this is going to sound really harsh to some of you, but I think these changes were needed. Remember this is a 'highly skilled' visa. Its aim being to attract the brightest and the best. People who are easily employable (because their job is in demand) and can command high salaries. It is not an alternate route for economic refugees. And considering that the average annual pay at Canary Wharf or the City(where I'd like to think some if not most of the brightest and the best are) is around £100,000, £40,000 to extend a 'highly skilled' visa is actually quite a low.

buntosanya
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Post by buntosanya » Wed Nov 08, 2006 7:54 pm

Dr. bergdorf

I beg to disagree with your highness. I don't know on what basis you are here in England, but i will like to say since the aim of the Govt is to attract the 'brightest' and the 'best'. I am quite positive HO was not blindfolded when they approved HSMP application to the 'unbrightest' and the 'unbest' :roll: - to use your language.

The Govt definitely knows where they have shortage, this should have been put into consideration before approving their application. Nobody can enforce them to allow immigrants to come in, if they decide it is over with HSMP so be it, but the ones that are in should not be at their mercy whenever they choose to change the rules of the game.

They should learn to make rules and stand by them.
"Behold, i have set before thee an open door, and no man can shut it."

bergdorf
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Post by bergdorf » Wed Nov 08, 2006 9:36 pm

buntosanya wrote:Dr. bergdorf

I beg to disagree with your highness. I don't know on what basis you are here in England, but i will like to say since the aim of the Govt is to attract the 'brightest' and the 'best'. I am quite positive HO was not blindfolded when they approved HSMP application to the 'unbrightest' and the 'unbest' :roll: - to use your language.

The Govt definitely knows where they have shortage, this should have been put into consideration before approving their application. Nobody can enforce them to allow immigrants to come in, if they decide it is over with HSMP so be it, but the ones that are in should not be at their mercy whenever they choose to change the rules of the game.

They should learn to make rules and stand by them.
Let's correct a few things first:
- It’s not Dr
- I didn’t use the words ‘unbrightest’ [sic] or ‘unbest’[sic] because they are not really ‘words’
- I’m here on the HSMP and definitely not at the mercy of the HO
- And ‘your highness’ – Sure, why not!

The HSMP was intended to attract people with ‘exceptional skills’ (See the Guidance notes – Introduction) who would be able to apply those 'exceptional skills' in a productive manner to benefit the economy. It was not based on getting people to fill some sort of a skill shortage (I believe there are separate visas for that purpose).

When the HSMP was introduced, the Home Office made an assumption which was current earnings, qualifications and experience would be a good indicator of a 'highly skilled' person. The HO is not going to baby-sit applicants and decide what is or isn't in their best interest. All they determine is based on your application are you a 'highly skilled' person. For the purpose of HSMP, it should be the applicant, who makes a decision (before they apply) on how employable they are (i.e. are their skills in demand in the UK, will they be paid enough to enjoy the same standard of living that they are used to etc).

After possibly processing numerous extension applications of people who were stacking shelves in Tescos or working as forecourt attendants, they have probably come to realise that something may just be amiss. Which is why, I believe, they have introduced the second set of checks (at the extension stage). This helps them sort the wheat from the chaff – it shows them who really fits into the highly skilled mould.

If a person who claims to be ‘highly skilled’ can’t get a job in the initial 1-2 years with a reasonably decent salary, how can they objectively claim that they are even skilled!

Make rules and stick with them? Whilst some rules should be set in stone (think human rights - and some of them are debatable), most rules are meant to evolve and be refined over time. I know this is extreme but where would we be if we still had some of the same rules from 100 years ago?

Rog
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Location: London

Post by Rog » Wed Nov 08, 2006 9:47 pm

Also, the age discrimination to over 33's is totally unfair. There is a law enacted in the UK prohibiting age discrimination in any form, only a person's ability should count, not whether he/she is over or under 30. How can the Home Office violate their own country's law.

Canada and Australia have far more ethical programmes with ILR from the day you land. When a qualified person in a good job leaves his home country and moves to an another country to settle after detailed vetting by the home office he expects to be treated better than like some unskilled refugees.

They are powerless to stop the stream of unskilled east europeans and other asylum seekers/ refugees who will claim state benefits and they are penalising the hard working tax payers who subsidise the first lot.

mcu
Newbie
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Re: GROSS salary before tax?

Post by mcu » Wed Nov 08, 2006 9:48 pm

Hi,
Can any body comment on this please?

Regards,

mcu wrote:Hi friends,
Does this mean salary before tax deductions? e.g. If annual salary is £40000 does this mean 40K or 40K - tax ?



Regards,

Ashwin2005
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earnings

Post by Ashwin2005 » Wed Nov 08, 2006 9:50 pm

mcu,

It is earnings before tax. Means if you earn 40K Gross, this is acceptable.

Rog
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Location: London

Post by Rog » Wed Nov 08, 2006 10:23 pm

Is every thing lost then. All HSMP holders with 3 year extensions earning less than £ 32000 have to pack their bags ? Surely there must be some recourse to such gross injustice as this was not a part of the original scheme when they were liberally handing out visas to everyone. When even criminals and terrorists have human rights in this country can they play with lives of qualified people and their families ?

ameba
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hm..

Post by ameba » Wed Nov 08, 2006 10:34 pm

bergdorf, all my respect man!!!

I think the new scheme is much clearer and fairer to people. The salary levels are not that bad at all and easy passable. Young guys (under 29) should prove about 26000 per annum and more experienced should show 40000. These figures, I beleive weren't made up from the air and HO must have seen some sort of average pay statistics.

And for those thinking that there will be a wave of skilled migrants comming from the new EU members - I should really disappoint you, there are very few high earners left to come - the general rule here is : Whoever wanted to come over to work, has already done it!

ameba
Newly Registered
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hm

Post by ameba » Wed Nov 08, 2006 11:10 pm

bergdorf, all my respect man!!!

I think the new scheme is much clearer and fairer to people. The salary levels are not that bad at all and easy passable. Young guys (under 29) should prove about 26000 per annum and more experienced should show 40000. These figures, I beleive weren't made up from the air and HO must have seen some sort of average pay statistics.

And for those thinking that there will be a wave of skilled migrants comming from the new EU members - I should really disappoint you, there are very few high earners left to come - the general rule here is : Whoever wanted to come over to work, has already done it!

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