A unique problem: Tier1 dependant for widow mother over 65

[Londoner9]

My situation is unique and different from most. Please dont mark this as answered etc in other posts, as this is a matter at a stage where we as a family might have to pack-up and leave the country if we dont get a solution soon and will be quite unsettling...I really expect some gurus and Sr members to show me light.
Problem, point wise so that you may comment easily:-

1. I am on Tier1 visa and am the only child of my parents.
My mother is 66 years old and a widow - so completely dependant on me emotionally and financially, to an extent that I dont send her money to India, but she lives in the flat which I own and uses the money out of the savings which I have in India out of my previous employment there.

2. She also DOES NOT have any brothers and sisters, which mean there is practically no one to look for her in india while I am in UK. This is UNIQUE because normally in Indian families there is someone, even distant relative to take care of elderly ppl - but in my case, we are actually a family of just 4 - Me, my mother, my wife and my son.

3. On these grounds, she was granted a dependant visa in 2006, while I was on a WP. Again, that was a UNIQUE situation as per ECM as he stated that as such there were (and still aren't) any rules which allow a parent to stay as dependant, unless the sponsor is a UK permanent resident. And in 2006 she wasn't even 65!

Very important to mention is, that ECM at the interview which lasted 5 minutes also stated that because my mother has been "proven" as dependant in 2006, she will have that proven 'status' in future applications as well, as this was a compassionaite, special case.

4. However, when I came to UK last year on Tier1, she was REFUSED a dependant visa. Now that is very unsettling and shocking for us, because her coming to UK with us as a dependant was on a critical path - we didn't have a Plan B, for logistics for her to stay in India!
Since then, she has been living alone in most unfortunate circumstances, I have to talk to her for hours to console, she does not go out of the house on her own for days and I may even fear she may die alone, unsupported...That would be cruel on us a a family, as we did as suggested- if she was granted a dependant visa earlier, stayed for 1 full year here, naturally no recource to public funds, then it was BUT NATURAL for us to apply for her dependant visa only this time! Why on earth we would apply for her under the family visitor category - and even VFS India supported the fact that based on previous successful dependant status, she stood a 100% chance. Worst case scenario, we thought that the ECO would again call us for an interview - but would definitely give us a benefit of doubt, but he didn't and we are stuck till date!!!

5. We appealed but it was rejected. We have the right to apply to upper tribunal but are very confused if that also gets rejected. On a second note-If I need to call her on family visitor, how she will be able to prove that she has reasons to go to her country as there is actually no reason! Also, if I try to bring her on family visitor - she can only come for 6 months and then she has to go back for 6 months to India. There is no way she will be able to live alone without supprt.

6.Also, if we prove to UK home office she is a family visitor - that disputes our previous successful application when she came as a dependant and stayed for over a year! That ways we get stuck both ways....! Technically, she IS a dependant, not a visitor. We dont want to contradict ourselves, BUT just need a practical solution how she can come here else we may have to go back...

PLEASE help or suggest what options we have? Does human rights option or any compassionaite ground like earlier absolve this problem, which is driving us all nuts - both me and wife are working and may have to quit our jobs, not to mention unsettlement for our school going kid...
I have my Tier1 (first) till Aug 2012, due for renewal...and can decide either to renew if my mom can join us, OR to give up renewal and go back, very sad and shattered...

unless,God bless...there is some way...
- a distressed guy who has to think as a son, husband and father...

[rakeysh.patel]

I do understand your situation and hope neither you nor anyone else has to walk in such unfortunate circumstances ever. Reading through each and every lines of what you posted, only wants me to direct you to some qualified Immigration Solicitor. They are the experts and handling such scenarios. What we are here is a group of individuals who share there personal experiences which mostly are aligned to the application to remain etc.

Apologies, but I could not personally help with your question, may be Mods could.

God Bless
R

[Manka10]

Mate, your case is fit to be argued by a solicitor in a JR in court

You must file for a JR since dependent visa was earlier granted

[shahjee11]

Your case is of a unique nature and has the potential of success. You must engage an immigration lawyer.

[Londoner9]

Thanks Manka & Sage- do appreciate your prompt replies, albeit was half expecting the same reasonable reply to consult an immigration solicitor. However, must mention that I did consult 2 solicitors and surprisingly they mentioned that it was a difficult case beyond their 'comprehension' - as they agreed with me that I can not justify she can come as a family visitor, because technically neither I can prove she has visitor (as they said she would have to prove she has some bonding in her home country, which she has absolutely none, not even a single relative in whole country!)

On that grounds, they say her application has 100% chances of rejection even on family visitor - as the ECO's have their own perceptions, they will not look at our problem or ways to solve or emphathize rather than only rules book, which is sometimes a shame.

They say we were lucky that first ECM (in 2006) who based on an interview granted my mom a dependant visa and said it was a shame this time ECO/ECM were not compassionate - they should have looked at the individual situation, previous case history etc and then passed on a judgement.

Because of the case spoilt as this time ECO did not give us any benefit of doubt and rejected this first time- this has become a cyclic nightmare.

PLEASE suggest some good immigration lawyer competent in this matter as small ones are not able to help...! They just have an excuse saying immigration laws are tough etc - but what happened to compassion, human rights grounds etc, how can one son leave a single parent in one's home coutry to die- when actually we are paying huge taxes and are able to support her!!! What the world has come to...with so many people illegaly on govt support here and genuine people whoi are fair forced to return back because of strange rules...? SORRY for being emotional but I am directionless, perhaps given up...and ready to go back with shattered dreams...Unless there is some miracle.


My grounds even in appeals to lower tribunal have been simple - which I filed myself and they did not bother to call me for verbal hearing -- if she has been successfully granted a dependant visa, it was but natural for us to file for a dependant visa now; I would be out of my mind to file for a family visitor, as that would surely led to rejection. The response to appeal has been that over 65 widows are granted a dependant only when sponsor has ILR. BUT I did not even have an ILR in 2006!!! There is some logic of historic success rate also...but they choose to ignore that fact and the critical situation...what fear do they have? That I will not support her? If they fear that than wouldn't it be better for me to let her die alone in her home country? We Just want to stay as one happy close knit family, contributing a lot to british society by paying (huge) taxes and not seeping public funds...Ironic...

Appreciate your responses...and yes, this should not happen to anyone!
Manka-what is a JR and I believe I need a good sol for that, if you email.
Incidentally even my right to appeal to upper tribunal have been refused and I only have rights to appeal againt that refusal, so I am stuck...!
THANK YOU all even if that is a moral support...God bless.

Mate, your case is fit to be argued by a solicitor in a JR in court

You must file for a JR since dependent visa was earlier granted

[Manka10]

JR is a judicial review, you dont need any right of appeal to file for JR

You should check with as many lawyers as possible, till you find some1 who can fight your case on compassionate grounds & also argue that dependent visa was earlier granted

I dont know any specific lawyer myself but there are plenty of top notch immigration solicitors in London if you just search

[PaperPusher]

Were you on an intra company transfer work permit in 2006?

[Londoner9]

Hi PaperPusher (GURU)- Yes I was on ICT in 2006 but this time I am on Tier1 because I knew Tier2's will not lead to ILR. But whether it was Tier2 then or Tier1 now, the situation or the fact is that my mother is technically a dependant. Even under Tier2 no formal rule exists that a widow, single parent be granted a dependant visa, just like it does not in Tier1. It is a compassionate stand for eco/ecm to take - which I was lucky in 2006 but not in 2011- this has been my grounds of pursuing and appeals...

Your thoughs reallly welcome...and honest possibility of an outcome, as both my mother at 66 in india, and we as a family here are under tremendous emotional turmoil...as anyone would be in a cyclic problem..

Were you on an intra company transfer work permit in 2006?

[PaperPusher]

It was work permits in 2006, and people with intra company transfer work permits were able to sponsor their dependant parents as a concession outside the Immigration Rules. This is not the case in the Points Based System now. It was also the case that "ordinary" work permit holders were not able to sponsor their parents.

I've double checked this in an old Macdonald's Immigration Law and Practice. I am not sure if details of the concession will be on the UKBA website still.

[Londoner9]

Wow, that was a good find PaperPusher! Thanks for the effort.
While I digest the fact, what then do you see as an option (well yes, we will try to find a good solicitor in London, if you know any will help).

But your thought on the logic- that if the current PBS system does not have that "concession" and vfs/or us while filing my mom's dependant visa were unaware of this intricate fact; and it was not a delibrate mistake. Then, even though her visa was refused as dependant on tier1 pbs now; does she stand to qualify as a family visitor atleast - as otherwise we are stuck both ways! Difficult or near impossible for us to prove is that she has bonding/relatives/reasons for her to return to india - as we would be 'contradiction' or 2006 application as well as 2010/tier1 dependant application (even though it is not our fault, but a desire to find a solution & mitigate the problem). However, we still dont have answer to loistical problem - even if she is granted a 6 mnths family visitor visa (and ECO does not object that) - what happens when she has to return back to india - what happens to the house (you know indian conditions-dust, cutting & renewing utilities) - as no one would be looking after those things. Also frequent travels at this age...my inability to accompany her everytime maybe difficult, as employers maynot give leaves etc. That's why only dependant visa was a true solution. BUT you are the Guru...thanks for your time & find...and any more wise thoughs profoundly welcome. If destiny or current immigration laws have no provisions or concessions, then we shatter our settlement dreams and well, return back dejected! Will have to accept the fact, harsh or whatever.....But as a son, if I dont care for my mom, my son also won't when I am old...Thxxx

It was work permits in 2006, and people with intra company transfer work permits were able to sponsor their dependant parents as a concession outside the Immigration Rules. This is not the case in the Points Based System now. It was also the case that "ordinary" work permit holders were not able to sponsor their parents.

I've double checked this in an old Macdonald's Immigration Law and Practice. I am not sure if details of the concession will be on the UKBA website still.

[PaperPusher]

All you can do is apply for the visitor visa. If refused you could appeal. It would be tough to show she will return.

What about a good housekeeper?

You and your wife could take it in turns to travel with her.

Other than that, if you cannot get her off the phone, how will you manage to get her on the flight back to India?

Wow, that was a good find PaperPusher! Thanks for the effort.
While I digest the fact, what then do you see as an option (well yes, we will try to find a good solicitor in London, if you know any will help).

But your thought on the logic- that if the current PBS system does not have that "concession" and vfs/or us while filing my mom's dependant visa were unaware of this intricate fact; and it was not a delibrate mistake. Then, even though her visa was refused as dependant on tier1 pbs now; does she stand to qualify as a family visitor atleast - as otherwise we are stuck both ways! Difficult or near impossible for us to prove is that she has bonding/relatives/reasons for her to return to india - as we would be 'contradiction' or 2006 application as well as 2010/tier1 dependant application (even though it is not our fault, but a desire to find a solution & mitigate the problem). However, we still dont have answer to loistical problem - even if she is granted a 6 mnths family visitor visa (and ECO does not object that) - what happens when she has to return back to india - what happens to the house (you know indian conditions-dust, cutting & renewing utilities) - as no one would be looking after those things. Also frequent travels at this age...my inability to accompany her everytime maybe difficult, as employers maynot give leaves etc. That's why only dependant visa was a true solution. BUT you are the Guru...thanks for your time & find...and any more wise thoughs profoundly welcome. If destiny or current immigration laws have no provisions or concessions, then we shatter our settlement dreams and well, return back dejected! Will have to accept the fact, harsh or whatever.....But as a son, if I dont care for my mom, my son also won't when I am old...Thxxx

It was work permits in 2006, and people with intra company transfer work permits were able to sponsor their dependant parents as a concession outside the Immigration Rules. This is not the case in the Points Based System now. It was also the case that "ordinary" work permit holders were not able to sponsor their parents.

I've double checked this in an old Macdonald's Immigration Law and Practice. I am not sure if details of the concession will be on the UKBA website still.

[Londoner9]

PaperPusher, thanks for your comments and a prompt reply, again.
See my worries in bold...

All you can do is apply for the visitor visa. If refused you could appeal. It would be tough to show she will return.

L9> Potentially yes. This is one of the two advices, the one being given by other Sr members in this post: to refer to a solicitor, which I am trying to find (a real good one, not just one giving hopes). Let me know if anyone has a good reco. I intent to just take advice : whether an appeal for a dependant / JR as suggested would help or a waste of time OR as suggested by you, a visitor visa. BUT yes, how can I prove she has any bonding in India, when I have shown earlier she has none! That would be a catch22 for which I donot even have an answer now, forget while filling the form.

What about a good housekeeper?
L9> Buddy that is India! Safetly is zero, esp when they know you have a single parent that also a widow over 66. That is the most targeted age group for murders! In the past 10 months she has been in india - there have been 3 thefts of money, household items etc by just maids who are not fulltime as they know mom is old and vulnerable. If she leaves house closed for 6 months, it will be robbed by the time she returns! We also considered short term (6 months rental to keep house running) - less than 1 year rentals are not prevalant in India and are unsafe, unlike UK.

You and your wife could take it in turns to travel with her.
L9> Possibly yes, but that only absolves travel issue, 6 months or so. Not the issue of maintenance of house while she is away...as if that is not rented for 6 months, will be very untidy, and getting back utilities running in India is very different from that in UK. Normally, fam visitor suits ppl who have atleast one person or a relative to look after the hose back while one member is away...viz atleast even if my father were alive etc. Thats why our problem was unique and thanfully your clause as per 2006 ICT supported perhaps a concession! Hope there is some concession now else fam visitor, as equally difficult to prove wll be difficult to execute as well.

Other than that, if you cannot get her off the phone, how will you manage to get her on the flight back to India?
L9> Buddy, if she is alone at 66, not even a soul to talk to; imagine waking up in the morning, staring at walls, waiting for a phone from me...she wants to talk and so do I...I atleast have my wife & son; she has no one...Pathetic are the laws which have no concession...what use are laws if they dont even support a basic human right of a single parent living with their only child, where do they go? Decay and get wasted just like that? Is that how western world treat their elders? I dont see that in day today life...sorry for the outburst, pal...But deeply sad... Heart wants to stay here, as immigration is not easy thing...we may have to restart life again, and that will not be easy thanks to recession even in india...unless a solicitor or GOD paves some way out(sigh)

Wow, that was a good find PaperPusher! Thanks for the effort.
While I digest the fact, what then do you see as an option (well yes, we will try to find a good solicitor in London, if you know any will help).

But your thought on the logic- that if the current PBS system does not have that "concession" and vfs/or us while filing my mom's dependant visa were unaware of this intricate fact; and it was not a delibrate mistake. Then, even though her visa was refused as dependant on tier1 pbs now; does she stand to qualify as a family visitor atleast - as otherwise we are stuck both ways! Difficult or near impossible for us to prove is that she has bonding/relatives/reasons for her to return to india - as we would be 'contradiction' or 2006 application as well as 2010/tier1 dependant application (even though it is not our fault, but a desire to find a solution & mitigate the problem). However, we still dont have answer to loistical problem - even if she is granted a 6 mnths family visitor visa (and ECO does not object that) - what happens when she has to return back to india - what happens to the house (you know indian conditions-dust, cutting & renewing utilities) - as no one would be looking after those things. Also frequent travels at this age...my inability to accompany her everytime maybe difficult, as employers maynot give leaves etc. That's why only dependant visa was a true solution. BUT you are the Guru...thanks for your time & find...and any more wise thoughs profoundly welcome. If destiny or current immigration laws have no provisions or concessions, then we shatter our settlement dreams and well, return back dejected! Will have to accept the fact, harsh or whatever.....But as a son, if I dont care for my mom, my son also won't when I am old...Thxxx

It was work permits in 2006, and people with intra company transfer work permits were able to sponsor their dependant parents as a concession outside the Immigration Rules. This is not the case in the Points Based System now. It was also the case that "ordinary" work permit holders were not able to sponsor their parents.

I've double checked this in an old Macdonald's Immigration Law and Practice. I am not sure if details of the concession will be on the UKBA website still.

[Manka10]

buy or transfer some property in your mothers name in India, make her a member of some social organisations, your family visitor application should go through & i believe it will,

she can be here for 6 months & your wife can then accompany her for sometime after she is back, then apply for family visitor again after 6 months...until you get ILR

in my opinion, this is the only way...Goodluck

[PaperPusher]

There is no concession for parent dependants in the PBS. I cannot see how you can get a dependent visa for your mother.

Lots of people must have elderly dependent parents on Tier 1 and Tier 2 and the government has decided that they cannot be sponsored.

What you have written about your mother's circumstances certainly doesn't convince me she would return after six months! Having said that other people on Tier 1 get visitor's visas for their parents. Perhaps you will too. Hasn't she got friends? Old colleagues? A pension? A few nice neighbours? No relatives from your father's family that can help?

You can sponsor her once you have ILR. Until then it is just visits.

[Londoner9]

Thanks again for your valuable thoughts. Yes I am worried and in doubt but my mind & heart both read as in bold below:

There is no concession for parent dependants in the PBS. I cannot see how you can get a dependent visa for your mother.

L9> Thx for the very valuable statement, as now perhaps I may not waste my time on this route unless some solicitor suggests otherwise.

Lots of people must have elderly dependent parents on Tier 1 and Tier 2 and the government has decided that they cannot be sponsored.
L9> Yes I do understand, but in most scenarios, as in typical indian families, either both parents (maybe or are) alive or there is always a sibling (even if it is a sister) or certainly a relative, even if distant. None of this is true in my case, honestly, thus it was unique.

What you have written about your mother's circumstances certainly doesn't convince me she would return after six months!
L9> As I said, if wishes were horses and soneone viz eco/ecm/HO saw this as a unique, compassionaite case as they saw when I was on WP in 2006; yes I would have wanted her to stay with me as long as my Tier1 allowed. BUT having said that, and being a law abiding citizen & a senior IT management exec; I will never ever break a rule. IF I decide NOT to return to india and uproot my family, then the ONLY choice I would go is to call her on family visitor for 6 months and will anyway, have to find someway to send her back after 6 months so that she can spend that cooling off period in india. I dont have any other intentions, as I were to reolve to illegal means I would not be asking members of this esteemed forum. Honest. What else can a person do under these circumstances but to suffer, silently in the name of 'rules'. What harm would a 66 yrs old widow indict on this society if we are here to support her fully and pay taxes (that also two of us). Agreed rules must be there, but some compassion must exist for extreme cases (not complaining to you buddy but to HO and cruel immigration law makers he he)

Having said that other people on Tier 1 get visitor's visas for their parents. Perhaps you will too. Hasn't she got friends? Old colleagues? A pension? A few nice neighbours? No relatives from your father's family that can help?
L9> Yes I am aware but in some cases which I have inquired, mostly where both parents are alive; one takes care of house and other comes...etc; basically they have support of each other and that "insecurity" of being alone factor is nil. Because we/rather she does not live where we lived earlier (and she cannot go back) - she hasnt got any friends (and at this age...). Yes a few nice neighbours - but I cannot tell them to visit her every now and then. What happens if she has some mild issue at home and no one even comes to know? There is no relative from my dad's family, as he only had a younger brother who also expired and his children are settled in the US, which means they naturally cannot take care of her (if I cannot sponsor her, she is not even blood relation to them!) In a nutshell- not a single distant relative in india, except some friends...else I would have some relief.

You can sponsor her once you have ILR. Until then it is just visits.
L9> Yes buddy, but I came in June last year, which means I may get ILR in 2016, by that time she would be 72+ and without our support and not a single soul to talk to in proximity, may not even be alive; very hard to say but true. Loneliness kills...she does not talk to anyone, except me over the phone...or my son, who is 6 and was very very close to her.

Thanks for your suggestions & options - but unless I have a workable solution and a direction to 'choose', its living in emotional pain. Biggest worry, still if going fam visitor route is maybe ECO/ecm doubts her credibility to return and even that visa is denied. Then again, another rounds of appeals. As they said in one hindi rubbish damini...tariq pe tariq, ie dates and dates and appeals...and by that time the appealant maynot exist. And then, case over! Sorry to say...but then I will live in constant pain all my life and may never forgive myself. Rather, shatter my dreams and give some happiness to her, when she needs us most. Yes...even she liked UK a lot and would have been happy, we would have contributed MORE to the society, the tax coffers, but thanks to 'laws', wherein offenders and illegal immigrants get 'justified' but honest highly skilled personnel, paying taxes in highest bracket, with no recourse to public funds have to move out of this country, which is lose-lose not win-win. God must be listening. Thx to you buddy, heartfelt thx atleast for your emotional support (all of you guys who responded and emphathised.

God bless you all!