HSMP Scheme Suspended

olisun · Post by **olisun** » Fri Nov 10, 2006 1:37 pm

sjgul wrote: there is a bunch of white facial clads on this discussion who will laugh at your problem and as these people have deaf ears considering themselves to be the best in all situations, it is best to avoid them.

I like your attitude...

I don't want to get into a lengthy conversation regarding this, but do you think just agreeing to everything you say on this board will solve your problem??

sjgul · Post by **sjgul** » Fri Nov 10, 2006 1:41 pm

It seems you are feeling guilty on this , Well if that is , It is your problem , not anybody's else, You need to contact some good pshychatrist for this.I never mentioned your name. No body dragged you into this conversation , you are jumping yourself and feeling guilty as if you are the culprit.
You like this or that is also of nobody's intrest, please keep your likings/dislikings to you as this forum is discussing some serious issue.

googleman · Post by **googleman** » Fri Nov 10, 2006 1:43 pm

I am also in the same situation.. Any person who has 1 year of visa cant show 8 months of earning.. a person who is migrating from one country to another will take at least 2-3 months after visa stamping. After arriving here, it takes 2-3 months to get a job. So out of 12 months, 6 months is gone. On top of that 1 month before expiry we will have to apply for renewal. So we are left with only 5-6 months in a year..How can anyone show earning for the last 8 months? (except in very few cases).

I had spoken with HSMP customer care centre today (after waiting for such a long time in the queue).. after explaining my situation, the person with who I spoke accepted that it is valid one. He told me, he will enquire with some other person and kept me on hold for another 15 minutes. After coming back he told me, they are still in the process of writing the rules and regulations!!!!. Even they are not clear what to do for people like me who has 1 year visa but cant show 8 months of earning but will qualify on the pro-rata basis.

olisun · Post by **olisun** » Fri Nov 10, 2006 1:53 pm

sjgul wrote:It seems you are feeling guilty on this , Well if that is , It is your problem , not anybody's else, You need to contact some good pshychatrist for this.I never mentioned your name. No body dragged you into this conversation , you are jumping yourself and feeling guilty as if you are the culprit.
You like this or that is also of nobody's intrest, please keep your likings/dislikings to you as this forum is discussing some serious issue.

Why should I feel guilty about it?? I am not a "white facial clad" (according to you).

If you are discussing some serious topic then you should stick with the topic and not deviate by passing comments about others who agree with the steps the Ho / govt. has taken.

Others are also in a similar situtation as yours but I don't see them wasting their time passing comments about people.

I repeat, do you think just agreeing to everything you say on this board will solve your problem?

yodiyokun · Post by **yodiyokun** » Fri Nov 10, 2006 1:56 pm

googleman,

I am keeping my fingers crossed that they will porate the earnings for ahow long you have worked, but even at that. if you are over 32... you need to have a job of 32k p.a..... which is not easy except you are in south east and even then its not easy to get such a job... this is a nightmare really.

will people just become illegal immigrants.... or go back home.. but go back home to what... after spending all life savings.

the only transition is work permit... but no time frame on when to get work permit.......
at least they should even give grace of 6 months for people to meet the extension requirements...

sjgul · Post by **sjgul** » Fri Nov 10, 2006 2:20 pm

Well, it is you who is trying to make eveybody agree to your statements not me, passing sarcastic remarks to members , laughing at people's problems. You behaved indisiplined like that bunch and that's why got some generic remarks but those were not targetted at you , you felt guilty and now even refusing u didn't. If you can't help people , don't laugh at others seious and genuine issues. I am not even getting afftected by these changes but I support and I feel the tension what everybody is going through , but it seems you are very happy people going out of here and not many people coming here who are genuine high skilled and in order to feed their families compromising for mid-income jobs for a short duration and then moving on to high-end jobs.
Probably you are vey happy as most of these highly skilled people going out will make competition easy and average skilled people with even less skills than those going out may get more opportunities.

It seems some problem in your attitude not to agree to mass opinion , not mine, so it needs to be you who need to find that answer , not me.

ameba · Post by **ameba** » Fri Nov 10, 2006 2:20 pm

Guys, lets keep it to the topic.

I too have a lot to say about British Govt politics, double standards and etc, but will it make any difference at all? The truth is we are all here visitors and until we become proper citizens, we can be thrown out like puppies at ANY TIME.

It is very tempting once you establish yourself here to start thinking about all these small pleasures in life - morgtages, new cars, but no one has guaranteed nothing! We all signed our consent that we want to move over here, but what guarantees did we get in return?

Over the years, british immigration strategy has been going in the same cirle - throw something written for half an hour and then try to close the loopholes abused by immigrants. Whoever lived here for longer can confirm my words.

The only fresh idea I saw in this thread was about pointing out the flaws of the new scheme at very early stage and now is the right time to do it. Next month all of us who have some reasonable doubts, just sent them a letter. After receiving thousands of such letters, HO may want to alter the scheme, so at least the most ridiculous bugs fall out.

Last thing, this country is not the paradise, there are plenty of crappy things one has to get used to live with. There arent many options though - you either wash your brain and accept the double standards and asslicking you will see here throughout rest of your live or get the british passport and piss off. (Having said that, it is quite dangerous to define yourself as british in many parts of the globe ....). Anyway...

rella · Post by **rella** » Fri Nov 10, 2006 2:23 pm

I'm American, where nearly everyone is an immigrant. Though things are in a pretty sad state nowadays in the U.S., IMO, what made America a special place that excelled in higher education and led the world in innovation was the influx of immigrants. The old European countries tend to be fairly limited in their viewpoint. They tend to be academically inbred. The result is that most UK-trained programmers know one language and one way of doing things. And the same old/same old is perpetuated in business with very little originality. Bringing in people from all over the world to energize UK business was a great idea. I don't know why they've decided to squash it.

And it's very true that the very high wage earners in this country are MBAs in finance in London. A lot of people really don't want to live in that city or work in that industry. Other areas of the UK need highly skilled professionals in different areas. Most of these jobs pay far less than other countries. And jobs in scientific computing pay ridiculously low, but expect extremely skilled and qualified individuals. Are these people less worthy of being considered highly qualified than someone who is embedded in the corporate finance world in London? At least people in areas outside finance might actually come up with something new and worthwhile to society.

If the HO wants Britain to continue along its path of their economy being dominated by finance and the oil industries, fine. Their choice, though I don't think it's a very wise one.

And whether or not the HO wants to tighten up the requirements of incoming HSMP recipients, they need to apply some fairness to those already here. They need to honour their word and their commitment to us, as they expect us to honour our commitment to them. It wouldn't kill the HO to at least give a one year transition time for those already here to try to meet the new requirements or give them the chance to sell houses, find jobs in another country and save the money and make the arrangements to leave. Even that would be fairly mean-spirited, but it would be more fair. After all, every HSMP holder signed a legal document promising to make this country their permanent home. Since HSMP holders cannot claim benefit, the problem of people not making enough money to survive in this country is taken care of on its own.

sjgul · Post by **sjgul** » Fri Nov 10, 2006 2:24 pm

Ameba,

Thats what I was pointing as in my previous posts but some gentle and talented people very happy because of all this happening start advocating the decision and got into unnecessary arguments and started teasing other members.

rella · Post by **rella** » Fri Nov 10, 2006 2:33 pm

The idea of writing letters of concern to HO and others in gov't is a good idea. If they get hundreds of letters, maybe it will get their notice and get them to consider giving HSMP holders a year or so to meet the new requirements. Who would be the best people to write? Does anyone know who is in charge of the HSMP and FLR programmes? Each person should also cc their MP, the Home Secretary and the Minister in Charge of Immigration. If we get this organized, maybe they will be more fair in their treatment of those already here. But, this needs to be done during the suspension period. They need to get a flood of letters. It might be good to email, send snail mail and call.

Good luck everyone.

Rog · Post by **Rog** » Fri Nov 10, 2006 2:37 pm

Friends, a large number of us are affected by this unfair retrospective application of eilgibility critieria. Let us make a democratic representation to allow the HSMP holders to continue as long as they are doing jobs in the profession they had specified in their original application and remove the unfair income criteria. As long we earn enough to pay our rent, bills, council tax etc comfortably without resorting to ODs or credit cards, we should be allowed to stay. As someone rightly pointed out in the initial days there is still a chance to get our voice heard. We literally have nothing to lose except being kicked out.

It is my request to the well paid highly intelligent members, since you are well placed and not affected by the ruling please do not taunt or belittle other members who are fearful about their future. It is not an easy thing to be suddenly uprooted and kicked out with families after having spent large sums of money to come here.

sjgul · Post by **sjgul** » Fri Nov 10, 2006 2:40 pm

I think we are coming back to the main topic and its solution , however got deviated by some unnecessary dialogues with members of the same society but happy with competition being easied off.

Sending of Letters , e-mails , fax could be a good step.

Abiola · Post by **Abiola** » Fri Nov 10, 2006 3:10 pm

I am glad people are speaking up already against this unfair treatment.
I sent an email today and would send as many letters as necessary to all..
I however do not expect anything positive, i don't think they care.

inso · Post by **inso** » Fri Nov 10, 2006 3:17 pm

Abiola wrote:I sent an email today and would send as many letters as necessary to all..
I however do not expect anything positive, i don't think they care.

I'd be willing to make a fair wager that emails sent to the HSMP case workers office will be completely ignored -- keep in mind, guys, that they have no control over this. They are just following orders from on high. The people who need to be targeted are those who can make a difference, like your MP for instance.

dnicky · Post by **dnicky** » Fri Nov 10, 2006 3:31 pm

This approach of sending letters, faxes. emals etc. have been tried once before not so distant in the past when we tried to grab the attention of the politicians, media when HO abruptly brought into effect the 4-5 years ILR rule retrospectively.
No one bothered to hear and understand our genuine concerns seriously then, so how different would be their attitude now?
Guys let us understand one thing; this is their country and there's no one from stopping them to behave in such a preposterous and unreasonabl manner.
We could definitelt do one thing, and that is to advertise in the outside world this unprofessional behaviour of the Home Office and also a word of caution to our colleagues/friends/relatives who may be planning to move to UK in search of a good and stable life.

aqilzeeshan · Post by **aqilzeeshan** » Fri Nov 10, 2006 3:51 pm

dnicky you r right but this time they have gone tooooooooo far leaving no chance of thousands of skilled ppl and their families to continue their life smoothly, may be the approach of sending letters will work.

Rog · Post by **Rog** » Fri Nov 10, 2006 4:08 pm

Maybe it was ignored in the past because the media and others may have felt that increasing the period by just 1 year is not so serious. But this is almost amounts to deporting a section of hard working tax payers by stealth in breach of original terms. There has to be some one who will see the unfairness in this. I am meeting my counseller with whom I have very good relations, to introduce me to the MP so that I can submit a representation. We all need to do whatever we can

dnicky · Post by **dnicky** » Fri Nov 10, 2006 4:49 pm

Rog, I definitely agree with you and sincerely hope that the efforts pay off this time.

At the same time also wanted to highlight means by which we could prevent others (prorspective immigrants) from falling in the same trap as ourselves. Would make sense to have two separate channels to oppose this unjust change and these are write concerns/hardships etc. to local MPs, U.K. media as well as try to attract the attention of external media may be from ones own home country to bring in light the unjust behaviour of UK government.

Also try to attract the attention of human rights groups/ativists if possible, as this recent rule change and primarily again the retrospective nature of the change definitely is in breach of the human rights as these have totally disrupted the routine life of hard working, law abiding skilled immigratns and their dependents.

Papafaith · Post by **Papafaith** » Fri Nov 10, 2006 4:54 pm

I had stayed on the sidelines and read with pain in my heart the arrogance of several board members, members like Jeff and Beegedoff or whatever you call yourselves.
What do you guys earn? That you see yourselves as lords.
The only thing that happens to guys like you is a fall (Pride goes b4 a fall).
I qualified in every ramifications, but i still feel betrayed.
Let me ask you guys(Jeff and Bergedoff- i call you Begedoff on purpose)
Does your 100K job insure you from sickness and accident? so when you fall sick in the 4th year and you cant work for 2 years, will it be right to kick you out of the UK after contributing 4yrs of your Highly Higly Skilled tax to the govt.
Am only asking you guys to be humble, guys like you may not get ILR in this great country.
You guys make me sic with your posts. What is the basis of all of us coming together to fight this great injustice or even the 4 - 5 yrs injustice when you guys behave like you reside in Manor farm. I feel pain for the several skilled people that this draconian changes will affect.
Guys like you are guys who even with ILR earning 100K will still claim benefits, cos you will think its your highly highly skilled right.
I have no regrets in what i have posted. You guys are highly Highly Highly skilled so dont bring yourselves so low as to join issues with an unskilled guy like me.

sjgul · Post by **sjgul** » Fri Nov 10, 2006 5:15 pm

I have similar words for some other member having sarcastic and taunting behaviour for those genuine professionals getting afftected and accussing others for deviating from the issue. The whole issue is ego which has risen a lot after some thousand pounds in bank account and making others statements as "This is BS" whereas all of their own statements not even garbage acceptable.

Rog · Post by **Rog** » Fri Nov 10, 2006 5:28 pm

The other publicity of UK as a negative destination for skilled immigrants vis-a-vis Canada, Australia could work. If word spreads out the dictatorial manner in which they treat skilled migrants, UK would lose out on skilled migrants who would prefer other destinations.

ATBPLC · Post by **ATBPLC** » Fri Nov 10, 2006 5:36 pm

From whatever perspective one views these changes, there is no doubt that UK Govt is not being faithful to us at all. First, age discrimination has been introduced just to create problems in the lives of some people. I magine the dislocation it will bring to the lives of those who had been resident here with their family for 4 years.

Some of us who are insulting others should be very careful as your faith is not decided yet, and may be they will need to display their CVS for us to see in order to compare that with the CVS of those working in Tesco. I think it all depends on your sector

The fact that some are working in Tesco does not mean they are not highly skilled. It all depends on whether your skill falls into shortage areas and you are in high demand. But can you blame thsoe in Tesco if there is no other work for them to do.

It has been a hell convincing employers when we were initially given initial 1 year, in fact some employers will never give you work on 1 year visa. Some dont even understand HSMP.

The problems engendered by the new HSMP changes call for methodical handlings because we are all affected differently. From my considered view, the following categories emerge:

a. New applicants
b. Existing HSMP with 1-year initial approval
c. Existing HSMP with 2 years initial approval
d. Existing HSMP with 1 year initial approval plus 3 years extension and would need extra 1 year extension to qualify for ILR
e. Existing HSMP WITH 1 year initial approval plus 4 year extensions and will NOT need any extension again before ILR

In view of the above I suggest we creat topics as per the categories above. For example, I fall into category d, and I have started discussion on this.

We certainly cannot change the policy but we can make them see reason while it should not be used as an umbrella to cover everybody.

My position is that those in my category should be free, because those who came after us who luckily have fallen into category e are free. THe emphasis is on initial approval and we have passed that.

We should reralise that it is not easy to get work permit. Youe employer must proof that no British or EU CITIZEN CAN DO THEV WORK.

I also believe vthat people in my category should be ready to defend this position legally, we cannot be asked to go back home after 4 year of hardwork and having paid taxes for 4 years

aqilzeeshan · Post by **aqilzeeshan** » Fri Nov 10, 2006 5:39 pm

Rog you r right, i got chance to get H1b last summer and i refused to go for it just because of the fair path hsmp was providing. Now i am thinking i made mistake and should go for it in next quota.

My friend who already got H1B preferred to stay in uk and doing 4k net per month contract job is unable to score 75 points because he got 65 points initially based on his earning and experience ( could not get points on education because of 3 year graduation ) now he cant get 75 even after getting max in salary. He is also thinking to move to US.

What HO will get out of all this ?

sjgul · Post by **sjgul** » Fri Nov 10, 2006 6:22 pm

Although I am not affected , but lost faith in their system, Was planning to buy home in April-May after extension but would rather go into next year US H1B quotas with my consultant who has been contacting me continously.That country seems to be the true cosmopolitan and open society and vision to grow.

Yes what would HO loose ?
1). Lots of things, tax and NI on which old and unemployment benefits are given to uneducated unemployed youth and fast growing old community.
2). High Skilled Jobs (These Jobs will move to other countries where these workers in abundance , for ex:- China and India.) and then there will be again a political drama of shouting against outsourcing.

chanelan · Post by **chanelan** » Fri Nov 10, 2006 7:00 pm

http://www.vbsi.org.uk/
This group is already planning legal action. Many of you may be already aware of this.

Immigrationboards.com: Immigration, work visa and work permit discussion board

HSMP Scheme Suspended

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