Ombudsman

Joejo · Post by **Joejo** » Wed Feb 22, 2012 2:46 pm

Hey guys

has anybody used the parliamentary ombudsman before regarding an immigration case.if so please share with me your experience,sucess stories.I want to know if its the best way forward as i have been waiting for a decision under art 8/carers policy for 28months now.

Thanks

Post by **Greenie** » Wed Feb 22, 2012 4:12 pm

do you have a solicitor? you need to seek advice on whether you have grounds for JR or at the least a pre-action protocol letter?

Joejo · Post by **Joejo** » Sat Feb 25, 2012 8:00 pm

do you have a solicitor? you need to seek advice on whether you have grounds for JR or at the least a pre-action protocol letter?

Hi Greenie

Yes i do have a solicitor,and yes i do have grounds for a JR.as i had filed for JR before and they withdrew to reconsider from 2009.With no response from UKBA we then sent another pre action letter in Dec 2011 and recieved a letter saying that i need to submit my representation in person at liverpool, yet we sent a pre action protocal. I've never claimed ayslum nor do i have anything else to submit as they have got all they have asked me to provide.So My MP has forwarded my complaint to the Ombudsman got a letter from them saying that they have preliminary assessed my complaint and have concluded that it needs more detailed consideration before they decide whether to carry out a formal investigation. Can you please or anyone throw some light asof my situation.

Thanks

tier-1 · Post by **tier-1** » Tue Feb 28, 2012 5:57 pm

Hey Joejo,

Dont go to solicitor first as that is the way to spend money and time and energy. I have had great success with PHSO onmudsman. They are great people and they are good at calling a spade a spade and good at bringing fairness.

I have had excellent experiences with them. They have helped me in my tier-1 extension case. They have help me get a refund from home office of £1600 as well.

So I would say, raise it to ombudsman, if you can. Just to tell you, you need to first raise a formal complaint to the UKBA ( there is a seperate form for this ) and if you are not satisfied with the reply, ask your MP to escalate this to ombudsman. You have waited for 28 months. Start this process. It will take one month of complaint-process with UKBA initially. Thats it. If you are on the right side, you are just one month away from being doled fairness.

Joejo · Post by **Joejo** » Wed Feb 29, 2012 5:43 pm

Hey Joejo,

Dont go to solicitor first as that is the way to spend money and time and energy. I have had great success with PHSO onmudsman. They are great people and they are good at calling a spade a spade and good at bringing fairness.

I have had excellent experiences with them. They have helped me in my tier-1 extension case. They have help me get a refund from home office of £1600 as well.

So I would say, raise it to ombudsman, if you can. Just to tell you, you need to first raise a formal complaint to the UKBA ( there is a seperate form for this ) and if you are not satisfied with the reply, ask your MP to escalate this to ombudsman. You have waited for 28 months. Start this process. It will take one month of complaint-process with UKBA initially. Thats it. If you are on the right side, you are just one month away from being doled fairness.

Hi Tier-1

Thanks alot for ya in put, i really do appreciate. its given me new hope to carry on. Yes i've not told the solicitor about this move yet, however i have recieved an acknowledgement letter from my MP today attached with a letter to her from the Ombudsman confirming that they recieved her complaint on my behalf. And that they are considering the case in detail.So i suppose i have to wait for what is to come up now.How long do you think i should expect another from the Ombudsman.

tier-1 · Post by **tier-1** » Fri Mar 02, 2012 7:35 pm

You can call up PHSO and discuss with the person who is going to deal with your case. They are very good people and will answer your queries very well. Thier SLA is 40 working days however they generally take 20 working days.

Look, Since you do not get a chance to do some sort of litigation/hearing with the ombudsman, you need to provide the ombudsman with all the evidence and information that you have in your favour. A lot will depend on how convincing your claims and evidences supporting your claims are. Sometimes an evidence may not be possible. In such case they make a discretionary decision.

Also I do not mean to say that ombudsman will make a decision in your favour. They do give UKBA a chance to tell their side of story.

But they definitely will fix any unwarranted delays and wrong decisions.

Good luck.

Joejo · Post by **Joejo** » Sun Mar 04, 2012 2:33 pm

You can call up PHSO and discuss with the person who is going to deal with your case. They are very good people and will answer your queries very well. Thier SLA is 40 working days however they generally take 20 working days.

Look, Since you do not get a chance to do some sort of litigation/hearing with the ombudsman, you need to provide the ombudsman with all the evidence and information that you have in your favour. A lot will depend on how convincing your claims and evidences supporting your claims are. Sometimes an evidence may not be possible. In such case they make a discretionary decision.

Also I do not mean to say that ombudsman will make a decision in your favour. They do give UKBA a chance to tell their side of story.

But they definitely will fix any unwarranted delays and wrong decisions.

Good luck.

Hey tier-1

Thank you so much for the info that you passed on,its got mi going from strength to strength and am so optimistic about the whole thing now.not heard from em yet but when i do al fill you in....,do you think its wise to give em a call at this point in tym.or i wait till they do let mi know who is handling my case.

tier-1 · Post by **tier-1** » Thu Mar 08, 2012 4:17 pm

You can call the PHSO anytinme. They will be happy to talk to you.

DO CALL THEM and explain your case. If you dont they rely on what is written in your forms. You have the opportunity/right to detail your case to ombudsman through the phone. DONT miss this.

Joejo · Post by **Joejo** » Fri Mar 09, 2012 3:05 am

You can call the PHSO anytinme. They will be happy to talk to you.

DO CALL THEM and explain your case. If you dont they rely on what is written in your forms. You have the opportunity/right to detail your case to ombudsman through the phone. DONT miss this.

Hi tier-1

Thanks again not heard from them yet again but was thinking of trying to give them a call since its been two weeks now after i recieved the letter from them and the MP,so al do just that what ya've adviced.May you be blssed.will fill you in as soon as.

Thanks again

Joejo · Post by **Joejo** » Mon Mar 12, 2012 1:57 pm

Hey tier-1

I called the Ombudsman today and the lady working on my file was really nice as you said that they are,anyway she said that she had made her inquiries with the UKBA and they replied to her saying that they will make a decision by the 7th- may- 2012 and if they don't by then, the Ombudsman will be pursueing the case still on my behalf till we get a result, and that she has dealt with similar cases like mine and got results. At least that was the best news i've heard for the begining of the week. So she's going to write to me and my MP.

Thanks for ya encouragement as well and good advice.

tier-1 · Post by **tier-1** » Mon Mar 12, 2012 2:31 pm

Thats a great news Joejo. You have got a definite date now. Just make sure that you have sent all documents in support of your visa, to the UKBA.
Also remember, however much UKBA says that they will not consider documents sent after the main application, the fact is that they are oblisged to consider documents sent after the main application, at least as long as it is sufficiently before the decion is made and you have made them well aware about the additional docs sent.

In my case, I had sent additional bank statements. Asked over the phone, customer care used to say that additioanal documents sent after the maimn application submission will not be considered. However I still sent the docs to them and informed about the same by email as well.

And you know what, it was only after the intervention of ombudsman that the UKBA was forced to consider the addtional stmts and change thier decision,from refusal to grant.

I think this thread can be made sticky, to let eveyone know about ombudsman. Currently I think not many people know about them.

Joejo · Post by **Joejo** » Tue Mar 13, 2012 3:07 am

Thats a great news Joejo. You have got a definite date now. Just make sure that you have sent all documents in support of your visa, to the UKBA.
Also remember, however much UKBA says that they will not consider documents sent after the main application, the fact is that they are oblisged to consider documents sent after the main application, at least as long as it is sufficiently before the decion is made and you have made them well aware about the additional docs sent.

In my case, I had sent additional bank statements. Asked over the phone, customer care used to say that additioanal documents sent after the maimn application submission will not be considered. However I still sent the docs to them and informed about the same by email as well.

And you know what, it was only after the intervention of ombudsman that the UKBA was forced to consider the addtional stmts and change thier decision,from refusal to grant.

I think this thread can be made sticky, to let eveyone know about ombudsman. Currently I think not many people know about them.

Hi tier-1

Yeah i did send them every thing that supports my case, ukba know my case from 2001,circumstances changed with in i informed them too when my Daughter was born she 7yrs now,sent birth cert,they wrote to me in 2010 asking me for up to date medical report for my mother,her consultant sent it through to them, so really i gave em all they have asked. I Was suprised with the UKBA thou, the speed of their response to the PHSO and yet they take ages to reply to the MP.Since they have given the Ombudsman a date to concede do you think that they won't play any games as they do with solicitors or when they ignore letters we write.

yea true that this can get so sticky too, most people don't know how these guys work but with all ya evidence and signature from ya MP, they are gr8

tier-1 · Post by **tier-1** » Thu Mar 15, 2012 5:54 am

They will not play any more games, as they used to, any-more. MPs are not enforcement bodies whereas Ombudsmen are.

An ombudsman is like a police for government bodies. Just as you go to police if you are a victim of crime, the same way you go to ombudsman if you are victim of government bodies. And just as you have to give an FIR to the police, in this case you give a format complain to the govt body itself.

Moderators, Can this thread be made a sticky please. It can be a source of information ( and inspiration as well) for so many people.

Joejo · Post by **Joejo** » Thu Mar 15, 2012 4:02 pm

They will not play any more games, as they used to, any-more. MPs are not enforcement bodies whereas Ombudsmen are.

An ombudsman is like a police for government bodies. Just as you go to police if you are a victim of crime, the same way you go to ombudsman if you are victim of government bodies. And just as you have to give an FIR to the police, in this case you give a format complain to the govt body itself.

Moderators, Can this thread be made a sticky please. It can be a source of information ( and inspiration as well) for so many people.

Hey Tier-1

thats very gr8 news,am fill with fresh hope n gan sit tight and wait for the 7th may 2012, i thought they would play games again,if not that good.what would you think the out come is percentage wise if yu gat grounds with all the evidence provided to the ukba coz i reckon the Ombudsman can't tell em what decision to make. I agree Mods could make this STICKY as its important and helpful info.

tier-1 · Post by **tier-1** » Sun Mar 18, 2012 8:54 pm

Thats why I am saying, don't give UKBA any reason to reject your visa. Submit all the docs. Get them all checked and reviewed by friends, family, solicitor etc.

Joejo · Post by **Joejo** » Mon Mar 19, 2012 1:27 am

Thats why I am saying, don't give UKBA any reason to reject your visa. Submit all the docs. Get them all checked and reviewed by friends, family, solicitor etc.

Hey tier-1

Got my copy of the confirmation letter from the Ombudsman on saturday 16th/3/12 to my MP,stating "In response to our enquiry UKBA said that they would conclude their reconsideration by the 7th/5/12,Howver we will monitor UKBA'S handling of their reconsideration,and should there be unnecessary delay,we will intervene again ".And then on the same date i got another letter from my solicitors,UKBA had faxed stating"that they are currently in the process of considering my case but needed a faxed copy of my application as its not on file yet they had sent a few letters to my MP before saying that they have considered the application and are yet to make a decision asap" so my solicitors reffered them back to their correspondence and enclosed copies as well. As we submitted all and they have everything, even what they have requested,its now time to tell

Thanks yet again

Post by **vinny** » Sat Mar 31, 2012 10:42 am

Joejo wrote:"tier-1"Thats why I am saying, don't give UKBA any reason to reject your visa. Submit all the docs. Get them all checked and reviewed by friends, family, solicitor etc.

Hey tier-1

Got my copy of the confirmation letter from the Ombudsman on saturday 16th/3/12 to my MP,stating "In response to our enquiry UKBA said that they would conclude their reconsideration by the 7th/5/12,However we will monitor UKBA'S handling of their reconsideration,and should there be unnecessary delay,we will intervene again ".And then on the same date i got another letter from my solicitors,UKBA had faxed stating"that they are currently in the process of considering my case but needed a faxed copy of my application as its not on file yet they had sent a few letters to my MP before saying that they have considered the application and are yet to make a decision asap" so my solicitors reffered them back to their correspondence and enclosed copies as well. As we submitted all and they have everything, even what they have requested,its now time to tell.

Hi guys

Well well well as tier-1 mentioned above, UKBA hatched another plan and responded yesterday with a refusual claiming that i need to prove more of my article 8,not enough evidnce on their file,although i did give them all they asked for.but they want from the 2.5yrs that i have been waiting for their reconsideration. To catch me out if i have not been in contact, as my claim is based on my daughter and how i have been active in her life,though i'm not with my common law baby mother,we gat a very good understanding when it comes to the best intrest of my daughter.with all the evidence of finacial support, visits and communication from the day she was born 7yrs now. but however i need some advice or samples of letters of support. for my close friends and family who are all citizens to help me put together my appeal as i want to attach pictures to each, please can someone who has been sucessful in an appeal regarding Art8,advice me on how to go about this in the best way possible.Am quiet pleased that i know where i stand and can hatch the next move.

I will be looking forward to hearing from you all

I'm still

Thanks

tier-1 · Post by **tier-1** » Tue Apr 03, 2012 2:49 pm

Hello Joejo,

What does yur solicitor say about this. I have no clue about the kind of visa you are trying to get but I would say that rather than appealing straight away, speak to your ombudsman again and tell them why you think your visa should be granted rather than refused. But as I said you really need to study carefully the reason why UKBA has refused.

Also, the visa needs to be granted based on the situation that prevailed at the time you made application and not on how things transpired after that.

Take this to ombudsman. What is your solictor doing. Did you take his advise.

Post by **Greenie** » Tue Apr 03, 2012 3:03 pm

tier-1 wrote:Hello Joejo,

What does yur solicitor say about this. I have no clue about the kind of visa you are trying to get but I would say that rather than appealing straight away, speak to your ombudsman again and tell them why you think your visa should be granted rather than refused. But as I said you really need to study carefully the reason why UKBA has refused.

Also, the visa needs to be granted based on the situation that prevailed at the time you made application and not on how things transpired after that.

Take this to ombudsman. What is your solictor doing. Did you take his advise.

the ombudsman cannot tell the UKBA to make a certain decision. Decisions on applications based on human rights are made on the basis of the circumstances on the date of decision, not on the date of application.

tier-1 · Post by **tier-1** » Tue Apr 03, 2012 3:50 pm

Well I cannot directly refute the point Greenie made since I am not familliar with the kind of visa in question here.

However I can say for certain that if there is a process for grant of visa and is based in documentary evidence, then it can be taken to ombudsman. Anyway there is no harm in trying speaking to ombudsman and checking out.

With regards to date: Greenie, Waht you are saying could be true but again I differ. If only that was the case, then UKBA could always hold on to an application untill the applicants circumstances are not good enough and then refuse.

All visa application have timelimit and if the UKBA go beyond that and the circustances of the applicant detoriate, then that is not for the advantage of UKBA.

And exactly these are the points that need to be taken to Ombudsman. From my experience, ombudsman can tell UKBA to reconsider their decision, which is a cue to UKBA. If the UKBA stil refuses and the matter goes at ahigher level, the UKBA will be flogged to give the decion ombudsman thinks right. Fortunately UKBA are intelligent enough to pick the cues and avoid being flogged.

Post by **Greenie** » Tue Apr 03, 2012 4:02 pm

tier-1 wrote:Well I cannot directly refute the point Greenie made since I am not familliar with the kind of visa in question here.

However I can say for certain that if there is a process for grant of visa and is based in documentary evidence, then it can be taken to ombudsman. Anyway there is no harm in trying speaking to ombudsman and checking out.

With regards to date: Greenie, Waht you are saying could be true but again I differ. If only that was the case, then UKBA could always hold on to an application untill the applicants circumstances are not good enough and then refuse.

All visa application have timelimit and if the UKBA go beyond that and the circustances of the applicant detoriate, then that is not for the advantage of UKBA.

And exactly these are the points that need to be taken to Ombudsman. From my experience, ombudsman can tell UKBA to reconsider their decision, which is a cue to UKBA. If the UKBA stil refuses and the matter goes at ahigher level, the UKBA will be flogged to give the decion ombudsman thinks right. Fortunately UKBA are intelligent enough to pick the cues and avoid being flogged.

It is not just the case for HRs applications, but for all applications (apart from PBS applications where for example maintenance requirements need to be met on the date of decision). The decision maker decides whether the person meets the requirements on the date of the decision.

If a person applies for leave as a spouse and the relationship breaks down before a decision is made, he or she will n ot be granted leave to remain as a spouse (unless the UKBA is unaware of the breakdown).
If a person makes a tier 2 application and has been issued a CoS but in the meantime the CoS is withdrawn, the application would be refused because the applicant would not meet the rules on the date of decision.

This works both ways - if a person applies and doesn't meet the rules (for example hasn't passed the relevent English lang test for a spouse visa) but then provides evidence of passing the test before a decision is made, he can send this evidence which sould then be considered.

If the UKBA delays significantly in making a decision on application and that application is based on the person's right to a family life in the UK, the chances are if family life is still established that such grounds will be stronger due to passage of time.

UKBA generally do not delay applicants for the purpose of being able to refuse them 2.5 years later, they delay due to other operational reasons.

The ombudsman can suggest that UKBA reconsider but where a person has a right of appeal to the tribunal this should be exercised before taking the matter to the ombudsman.

tier-1 · Post by **tier-1** » Tue Apr 03, 2012 6:10 pm

Agree with you points. However there is a time limit within which the decisions have to be made.

However in course of time spent in delay, if an applicant becomes less elligible, UKBA cannot take advantage of it.

How do you know that the detoriation, in this case of family-life and relationship, has not resulted from stress due to the very delay itself.

Going to ombudsman is faster and better than appeal. If the appeal process does not help, ombudsman cant intervene. However it is not the otherway. So its best to go to ombudsman as it is fast and free as well.

Joejo · Post by **Joejo** » Thu Apr 05, 2012 2:36 pm

Agree with you points. However there is a time limit within which the decisions have to be made.

However in course of time spent in delay, if an applicant becomes less elligible, UKBA cannot take advantage of it.

How do you know that the detoriation, in this case of family-life and relationship, has not resulted from stress due to the very delay itself.

Going to ombudsman is faster and better than appeal. If the appeal process does not help, ombudsman cant intervene. However it is not the otherway. So its best to go to ombudsman as it is fast and free as well.

Hey Guys,
Rang ombudsman this morning and they said that i should appeal and if the UKBA handle my case unfairly then i should contact them again. Goin to my solicitors now with all my evidence.

tier-1 · Post by **tier-1** » Fri Apr 06, 2012 11:07 am

Please keep us updated on this.

Joejo · Post by **Joejo** » Wed Apr 11, 2012 11:55 am

Yeah of course will post any up dates, as per now just had a few days preparing my statement as well as my family, sent them to my solicitor to look through. now my question is guys, after how long will i get to have a court date. Who reads through my statement?, is it the Judge as well the Homeoffice reps. anyone gone through the same process of ideas.

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