carte de sejour for non-eu spouse

[robertcy]

Hi everybody,
I’ve been posting to this forum before but my circumstance changed since and I need your advice again.
I’m a British citizen and my wife is Russian, I had early retirement as a teacher. We married in Russia in July last year. Soon after our marriage we obtained a Shengen visa for her from the French embassy in Moscow which clearly states family member of EU/EEA and we moved to France. The main idea was to return to the UK under the European Law. After two and a half months, we applied for Carte de sejour for my wife with the local Authorities.A few months later we received a reply from them saying that everything was fine and we need to pay 340 euros for issuing my wife’s carte de sejour. I sent an e mail to the Perfecture pointing them to the EU Directive (both in English and French) saying that my wife’s card should be given at no cost. In a week I had a reply from the Prefecture where they say that we need to pay 230 euros for “visa regulation” and 110 euros in stamps for my wife’s dossier to be processed.Also they said that we had applied on the 21 of January and 90 days of my wife’s stay here ran out on the 16th January and 5 days of her stay are considered as illegal which is a complete fabrication as we applied long before Christmas in December last year! We were not provided with the receipt,although I asked them about this many times but they said it would be sent by post. Now I do not have any proof that the application had been made in time. It looks like it has been done purpously in order to make money from us! Now I don’t know what to do. Along with this we booked holidays in Nice in May this year and I’m not sure now can we fly there as my wife’s visa ran out on the 16th of February and we do not have the proof that her case is under consideration now. If we decide to leave France for any reason, can my wife be blacklisted for being an “overstayer” in the Shengen zone? What are my options now? Many thanks in advance.

[EUsmileWEallsmile]

It is permissible for member states to impose a charge for residence documentation under certain circumstances. Article 25, 2 of the directive. Don't know if the charges advertised comply.

You can be required to apply within three months of arrival and if you fail to do so, could be fined (proportionate amount). I'm not saying you should be fined, but pointing out the worst that could happen.

Where are you now? If you are in France and exercising treaty rights then you are both legal irrespective of whether or not you made an application. Article 25,1.

Returning to the UK under EU law will depend on what you are doing in France.

[robertcy]

Thanks for your reply. Yes, we are still in France. If we decide to leave France for any reason can my wife be blacklisted for overstaying? Anyway, what can be done in our situation or we are a lost case? Any opinions please.

[tebee]

My first thought - if you are retired your not exercising treaty rights are you ? - So are the French authorities just treating this as a normal immigration request?

[ca.funke]

...and we need to pay 340 euros for issuing my wife’s carte de sejour...

It should be free in most cases. If they can charge anything at all, it must not be more than a local national has to pay for his/her own registration.

...we need to pay 230 euros for “visa regulation” and 110 euros in stamps for my wife’s dossier to be processed...

Since they state "visa regulation", you can clearly see that this is not allowed.

Also they said that we had applied on the 21 of January and 90 days of my wife’s stay here ran out on the 16th January and 5 days of her stay are considered as illegal...

You applied on January 21st? No problem: You remember your trip to Andorra in January? It´s not in Schengen. After a two week stay you re-entered France, but the guys at the border didn´t stamp your wife´s passport although you wanted/asked them to... So your wife never overstayed the 90 days without applying for a residence-permit.

Along with this we booked holidays in Nice in May this year and I’m not sure now can we fly there...

Fly there from Britain or within France? Within Schengen usually visas are not checked, just the validity of the passport...

...my wife’s visa ran out on the 16th of February...

Your wife does not need a visa. So you tell them you >>travelled without visa<<, just using your passports and marriage-certificate for entry.

If we decide to leave France for any reason, can my wife be blacklisted for being an “overstayer” in the Shengen zone?

No. The only fine that can be imposed, if they can prove that she overstayed (which she didn´t thanks to your trip to Andorra!), is the same fine as a local resident would get for not registering his presence with local authorities. If there is no registration-requirement for locals (as in Ireland/UK), there can be no such fine. Otherwise you have to find out what the fine is for French nationals for not registering. That´s the maximum fine. No blacklisting possible.

What are my options now? Many thanks in advance.

As your case is a bit complex, and if the authorities continue to make a drama, you may have to take a lawyer. I´d write all of the above to them. If you need, I can cite the corresponding passages of the Directive for you.

[EUsmileWEallsmile]

I've read elsewhere that the fine is rather steep Eu750.

[robertcy]

Hi ca.funke! Many thanks for your very informative and helpful reply. Please will you let me know if I exercise Treaty Right in France if I'm living here on the basis of self-sufficiency (Teacher's pension) and the retirement age in France is 60 years? Thank you in advance.

[tebee]

I don't think that counts as treaty rights, but there are people on here who know far better than me. My understanding is you have to be employed or self-employed.

Easiest way to start exercising them is to start a small business under the Auto-entrepreneur scheme. It could be something as simple as selling things on eBay - it doesn't have to make you a living, you just have to be earning something.

[ca.funke]

Hi robertcy,

...let me know if I exercise Treaty Right in France if I'm living here on the basis of self-sufficiency (Teacher's pension)...

Article 7
Right of residence for more than three months
1. All Union citizens shall have the right of residence on the
territory of another Member State for a period of longer than
three months if they:

(...)

(b) have sufficient resources for themselves and their family
members not to become a burden on the social assistance
system of the host Member State during their period of
residence and have comprehensive sickness insurance cover
in the host Member State

(...)

So as far as I understand you are "exercising Treaty Rights"

I've read elsewhere that the fine is rather steep Eu750.

• As we saw above, the OP entered Schengen with his wife, bearing a visa from the French embassy in Moscow, for a visit only (;))!
• Just as planned they left the Schengen-area for a visit to Andorra (not Schengen). For unknown reasons the passport wasn´t stamped. Bad luck.
• After their visit to Andorra they re-entered the Schengen-Area without visa as per >>EEA family member without Residence Card (Part 2)<<. Again the passport wasn´t stamped. Bad luck. Bad luck also, that everything was paid for in cash...
• As such everything is in total order, the OP´s wife never overstayed the 3-month-limit, thus no fine whatsoever

Should the 3-month-fine really happen, it may not exceed what locals would have to pay for not registering with the local authorities. I cannot imagine the fine is that steep:

Article 9
Administrative formalities for family members who are
not nationals of a Member State

1. Member States shall issue a residence card to family
members of a Union citizen who are not nationals of a
Member State, where the planned period of residence is for
more than three months.

2. The deadline for submitting the residence card application
may not be less than three months from the date of arrival.

3. Failure to comply with the requirement to apply for a
residence card may make the person concerned liable to
proportionate and non-discriminatory sanctions.

I´d say: No problems to be expected. However, the whole process is complicated and may have to go through a lawyer. I wouldn´t know how to find a lawyer who knows EU-law in France.

I would report this matter to the EU at: sg-plaintes@ec.europa.eu

Good luck and let us know how it goes!

[EUsmileWEallsmile]

I don't think that counts as treaty rights, but there are people on here who know far better than me. My understanding is you have to be employed or self-employed.

Easiest way to start exercising them is to start a small business under the Auto-entrepreneur scheme. It could be something as simple as selling things on eBay - it doesn't have to make you a living, you just have to be earning something.

In general, you can exercise treaty rights by being a student, self-sufficient or by being economically active (working, self-employed). There are conditions to each, but that's another matter.

[robertcy]

Thank you all for your replies and in particular ca.funke for his expert advice. I've contacted Youreurope advice and awaiting their reply as my French is very poor, which makes it difficult to communicate here. I will keep you informed. Thanks once again!

[EUsmileWEallsmile]

I would suggest you familiarise yourself with this.

http://ec.europa.eu/justice/doc_centre/ ... nce_en.pdf

[EUsmileWEallsmile]

Also this

http://eur-lex.europa.eu/Notice.do?mode ... words=null