Traffic offences and Court fines - Criminality threshold ILR

[asser]

I got HSMP in 2007 and extended it in 2009, my ILR is due in next month.

I was convicted of insurance offence by court in 2010 and received 6 points and £425 fine. My conviction was that the person who was driving my car was not insured. I had valid insurance and my car was insured but when police stopped us my friend was driving without insurance so i was convicted for authorizing someone to drive without insurance traffic offence code IN14 was given to me.

I have paid the fine and everything but my conviction would stay unspent till 2015 does that mean i can not apply for settlement? if not then how should i go about it?

I did basic CRB disclosure which came clear.

Any Updates from other members who had traffic offences (Court fines etc) and they went ahead with ILR application (please share your experience) - what was the outcome?

I dont really know what should i do and how to go about it.

Please Advice!!!! Urgent

Many Thanks

[selva]

I got HSMP in 2007 and extended it in 2009, my ILR is due in next month.

I was convicted of insurance offence by court in 2010 and received 6 points and £425 fine. My conviction was that the person who was driving my car was not insured. I had valid insurance and my car was insured but when police stopped us my friend was driving without insurance so i was convicted for authorizing someone to drive without insurance traffic offence code IN14 was given to me.

I have paid the fine and everything but my conviction would stay unspent till 2015 does that mean i can not apply for settlement? if not then how should i go about it?

I did basic CRB disclosure which came clear.

Any Updates from other members who had traffic offences (Court fines etc) and they went ahead with ILR application (please share your experience) - what was the outcome?

I dont really know what should i do and how to go about it.

Please Advice!!!! Urgent

Many Thanks

you need to wait until conviction become spent. wait for some senior members to response

[DayDream]

Asser

Please check the following link

http://www.immigrationboards.com/viewto ... ht=#600112

You will see that ILR was granted for the applicant with an unspent conviction(convicted through court). I have seen atleast 3 or 4 members in this forum confirming that they got ILR with unspent conviction. you can search for them or I will post when I manage to find them.

From my understanding, if you have unspent conviction(through court) first thing to apply for a CRB check. If it comes out clean, there is a ray of hope that ILR can be obtained(going by some cases here). If it comes out negative, then wait until the conviction is spent before applying for ILR.

The most important thing is UKBA's caseworkers construe the guidelines/rules in different ways and easily one could get rejected with an unspent conviction and another could get an approval with a similar case.

So keep your spirits high, after all its friday afternoon

Cheers

[innocentdevil]

like you have said your basic CRB has came up clear so I would say you are fine.

Though, it is an offense to let someone drive your vehicle without insurance. You have done something wrong but you haven't if you know what I mean.

other seniors may add

[bluebird2011]

Hi

I believe you'll get your ILR despite of your conviction. Reason being, only court deals with matters relating to driving without insurance, driving without licence etc. Traffic officers can't give penalties in these cases therefore a fine is only given by court. You should be ok with your ILR application.
But disclose it in your application.

I also applied my ILR on 11th April with traffic offence CU80 i.e using mobile whilst driving. The decision was not given on the same day due to IT issues. But I'll let you know the outcome.

Regards

[DayDream]

bluebird2011

Was your offence dealt through court? When is your traffic offence getting spent? What checks you did before applying for ILR, I mean basic CRB etc?

Thanks for posting your case btw, it is really helpful..

Cheers

[DayDream]

For more confidence, follow the links below to see different people confirming that they got ILR inspite of having an unspent conviction.

http://www.immigrationboards.com/viewto ... ht=#349788

http://www.immigrationboards.com/viewtopic.php?t=94854

http://www.immigrationboards.com/viewto ... ic+offense

Cheers

[asser]

Thank you everyone for all your advice and suggestions, just spoke to a solicitor and she advised me that this offence doesnt constitutes as a criminal conviction because if this was a conviction than it would reflect on CRB or PNC check she advised my that this is clearly FPN, the fact that court fine has been issued to me is because police can not issue FPN for such offences and therefore are referred to court, she said that i need to disclose it but also show CW copy of CRB and PNC.

Dont know if she is right or not but i thought of sharing it with everyone

Thanks again.

[linkers]

She is right. There is no harm in presenting your CRB & PNC to case worker.

[bluebird2011]

Daydream

Please see below the answers to your questions:
1. Court was not involved at all in my case as I got FPN from the police officer.
2. I got FPN in March 2010 so will be spent in March 2015.
3. I did not do any CRB checks prior to my ILR application.

Regards

[asser]

The problem is that it can go either way, in a dilemma dont know whether to go for ILR and then find out that i got rejected because of court fine which can happen and if it does, i loose my fees and then have to re apply for FLR(limited leave to remain in UK ) and pay again - tough call

[miyazi78]

http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/sitec ... iew=Binary

http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/polic ... rfl/rfl10/


http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/sitec ... iew=Binary

http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/sitec ... iew=Binary

Here is some good resource by home office to determine about the crimal convocation and threshold .
Any way in my own experience , I had FCN last 2010 , using motor vechile without mot . Pollice gave me £60 fine , due to failed on pay on time , the matter was held on majestic court and they made my fine £90 . I paid my fine and acknowledge court that i tried to pay on time but there was faulty payment line . And there after court gave a notification letter which well sated that I tried my best level to pay on time .

After that i did my enhanced CRB check from umbrella company , there has nothing about criminal conviction , afterwards I did subject to access request to pollice , again it's come up clean , they haven't any data which was held against my name .

So in my point of view , if you consider criminal conviction , always think it board seance , we are not prisoner or criminal , if there is nothing serious that led , you are involve in serious crime , like drink drive , penalty fair , anti social behaviour , ….

Thanks
Miyazi

[asser]

Hi miyazi
Thank you for sharing information ...this has been very helpful - thank you

[jasb1327]

so called experts here make me laugh....i have been following this issue 'traffic conviction and ilr' since last yr now.....and no clear answer has appeared yet....our expert who are now saying that a clean crb means all is ok in past they said traffic convictions (apart from serious ones like drink driving or dangerous driving) do nt appear on crb but any court fine is a conviction n gets spent in 5 yrs so even with clean crb a court fine means no ilr....this is what experts came up with.....where do we stand? i have clean crc but also had courts fines twice for no insurace n speeding...

[legit2011]

I think this issue of ILR and criminal conviction is a complex one, especially with insurance and drink driving where the CW has utmost power to deny you. However some people in this forum claim they have been issued ILR even with unspent conviction on serious conviction...Well thats the story. I have a similar situation and had put up a post about it , but decided not to go for ILR until after the 5years rehab period.

I applied for an extension under Tier 2 first week in April 2012, which was approved as I was a work permit holder with same employer for the past 5year. I was issued an extension untill 2015 even though the rehab period comes to an end in Jan. 2013 after which I will go for my ILR with no stress or tension...(that is if they dont change the immigration rules again .)

So I think the whole process is a risk thing. You can take the risk and go for your ILR whilst it is unspent or leave it until the end of your rehab period...I am referring to more serios cases like driving without insurance and drink driving, however FPN and police charges should not be denied.

[innocentdevil]

so called experts here make me laugh....i have been following this issue 'traffic conviction and ilr' since last yr now.....and no clear answer has appeared yet....our expert who are now saying that a clean crb means all is ok in past they said traffic convictions (apart from serious ones like drink driving or dangerous driving) do nt appear on crb but any court fine is a conviction n gets spent in 5 yrs so even with clean crb a court fine means no ilr....this is what experts came up with.....where do we stand? i have clean crc but also had courts fines twice for no insurace n speeding...

perhaps you should go and pay some solicitor for the advice you get here for free then. will that serve you right then ???

[jay09]

[quote="DayDream"]Asser

Please check the following link

http://www.immigrationboards.com/viewto ... ht=#600112

You will see that ILR was granted for the applicant with an unspent conviction(convicted through court). I have seen atleast 3 or 4 members in this forum confirming that they got ILR with unspent conviction. you can search for them or I will post when I manage to find them.

From my understanding, if you have unspent conviction(through court) first thing to apply for a CRB check. If it comes out clean, there is a ray of hope that ILR can be obtained(going by some cases here). If it comes out negative, then wait until the conviction is spent before applying for ILR.

The most important thing is UKBA's caseworkers construe the guidelines/rules in different ways and easily one could get rejected with an unspent conviction and another could get an approval with a similar case.

So keep your spirits high, after all its friday afternoon :P

Cheers[/quote]


Please could you let me know how I can do a CRB check....i thought it is usually done by organisation and that individuals are not eleigible to do so.

[linkers]

You can get a basic CRB from www.disclosures.co.uk

[jasb1327]

so called experts here make me laugh....i have been following this issue 'traffic conviction and ilr' since last yr now.....and no clear answer has appeared yet....our expert who are now saying that a clean crb means all is ok in past they said traffic convictions (apart from serious ones like drink driving or dangerous driving) do nt appear on crb but any court fine is a conviction n gets spent in 5 yrs so even with clean crb a court fine means no ilr....this is what experts came up with.....where do we stand? i have clean crc but also had courts fines twice for no insurace n speeding...

perhaps you should go and pay some solicitor for the advice you get here for free then. will that serve you right then ???

hahaha.....well that means an expert here can change there minds anytime they want which may end up giving wrong advice ......yeah then ofcourse its free...lol great.....
Anyway coming back to the real topic its simple as that...Traffic convictions (or most other minor convictions whether fined by court or not) do not appear on CRC.. only serious crimes/arrests/drink drive etc are on CRC...as I stated b4 I have clean CRC but in 2010 was banned from driving as a points totting up ban ( getting 12 points in 1 year)...i had 6 points and fine from court for speeding and 6 again in court for no insurance...still obviously CRC is clean
Many a experts here have said court fines are unspent in 5 yrs so even a clean CRC means no ILR....
that was my point now INNOCENT DEVILS (innocent after all) mentioned its upto us to trust the free advice lol

[innocentdevil]

so called experts here make me laugh....i have been following this issue 'traffic conviction and ilr' since last yr now.....and no clear answer has appeared yet....our expert who are now saying that a clean crb means all is ok in past they said traffic convictions (apart from serious ones like drink driving or dangerous driving) do nt appear on crb but any court fine is a conviction n gets spent in 5 yrs so even with clean crb a court fine means no ilr....this is what experts came up with.....where do we stand? i have clean crc but also had courts fines twice for no insurace n speeding...

perhaps you should go and pay some solicitor for the advice you get here for free then. will that serve you right then ???

hahaha.....well that means an expert here can change there minds anytime they want which may end up giving wrong advice ......yeah then ofcourse its free...lol great.....
Anyway coming back to the real topic its simple as that...Traffic convictions (or most other minor convictions whether fined by court or not) do not appear on CRC.. only serious crimes/arrests/drink drive etc are on CRC...as I stated b4 I have clean CRC but in 2010 was banned from driving as a points totting up ban ( getting 12 points in 1 year)...i had 6 points and fine from court for speeding and 6 again in court for no insurance...still obviously CRC is clean
Many a experts here have said court fines are unspent in 5 yrs so even a clean CRC means no ILR....
that was my point now INNOCENT DEVILS (innocent after all) mentioned its upto us to trust the free advice lol

like I said before, do not expect people to reply when you post sarcy comments when they try to help you.

I do not understand why people just come here without doing research and start asking daft questions.

Now, for any offence, there is a rehabilitation period minor or major. for a speeding fine, you get 3 points and a 60 fine, this is so that you do not go to court thus avoiding bigger fines and penalties. the period for speeding SP code is 5 years from the data of offense.

Now, mr clever, if you would have bothered reading guidelines on UKBA, consecutive fines one after another may cause issues in making ILR application. In your case, you have been irresponsible enough to repeat the same speeding offense again and again thus making it a MAJOR offense in view of a CW because he/she will have to take into account that you didn't mend yoursen first or second time so it is highly unlikely you will, hope you are getting a point.

also, what you may see clean in CRC, PNC may state different story while they do enhance search on your profile. They know that you have been banned once and totted up.

digest some of what you can in your small head matey.

[jasb1327]

so called experts here make me laugh....i have been following this issue 'traffic conviction and ilr' since last yr now.....and no clear answer has appeared yet....our expert who are now saying that a clean crb means all is ok in past they said traffic convictions (apart from serious ones like drink driving or dangerous driving) do nt appear on crb but any court fine is a conviction n gets spent in 5 yrs so even with clean crb a court fine means no ilr....this is what experts came up with.....where do we stand? i have clean crc but also had courts fines twice for no insurace n speeding...

perhaps you should go and pay some solicitor for the advice you get here for free then. will that serve you right then ???

hahaha.....well that means an expert here can change there minds anytime they want which may end up giving wrong advice ......yeah then ofcourse its free...lol great.....
Anyway coming back to the real topic its simple as that...Traffic convictions (or most other minor convictions whether fined by court or not) do not appear on CRC.. only serious crimes/arrests/drink drive etc are on CRC...as I stated b4 I have clean CRC but in 2010 was banned from driving as a points totting up ban ( getting 12 points in 1 year)...i had 6 points and fine from court for speeding and 6 again in court for no insurance...still obviously CRC is clean
Many a experts here have said court fines are unspent in 5 yrs so even a clean CRC means no ILR....
that was my point now INNOCENT DEVILS (innocent after all) mentioned its upto us to trust the free advice lol

like I said before, do not expect people to reply when you post sarcy comments when they try to help you.

I do not understand why people just come here without doing research and start asking daft questions.

Now, for any offence, there is a rehabilitation period minor or major. for a speeding fine, you get 3 points and a 60 fine, this is so that you do not go to court thus avoiding bigger fines and penalties. the period for speeding SP code is 5 years from the data of offense.

Now, mr clever, if you would have bothered reading guidelines on UKBA, consecutive fines one after another may cause issues in making ILR application. In your case, you have been irresponsible enough to repeat the same speeding offense again and again thus making it a MAJOR offense in view of a CW because he/she will have to take into account that you didn't mend yoursen first or second time so it is highly unlikely you will, hope you are getting a point.

also, what you may see clean in CRC, PNC may state different story while they do enhance search on your profile. They know that you have been banned once and totted up.

digest some of what you can in your small head matey.

lol i think ive seen posts here where people have got ilr even with 2 convictions..and that too serious ones...mine were no crimes anyway my whole point was that people (urself included mr. IknowEverything) here are saying clean crb is cool which i guess is deceiving cuz nothings sure yet...as for my case i wont argue about my 2 court visits lol neither do i want to say that it was all unfortunate (since speeding fine was done by my matie driving my car who went back to india and i cud nt provide his details to cops and insurance case was cuz i had no clue that my direct debit was cancelled n so was my insurance lol)...i'll get my PCN and i have feeling it'll too come clean then we'll talk mr.KnowItAllDevil

[miyazi78]

so called experts here make me laugh....i have been following this issue 'traffic conviction and ilr' since last yr now.....and no clear answer has appeared yet....our expert who are now saying that a clean crb means all is ok in past they said traffic convictions (apart from serious ones like drink driving or dangerous driving) do nt appear on crb but any court fine is a conviction n gets spent in 5 yrs so even with clean crb a court fine means no ilr....this is what experts came up with.....where do we stand? i have clean crc but also had courts fines twice for no insurace n speeding...

perhaps you should go and pay some solicitor for the advice you get here for free then. will that serve you right then ???

hahaha.....well that means an expert here can change there minds anytime they want which may end up giving wrong advice ......yeah then ofcourse its free...lol great.....
Anyway coming back to the real topic its simple as that...Traffic convictions (or most other minor convictions whether fined by court or not) do not appear on CRC.. only serious crimes/arrests/drink drive etc are on CRC...as I stated b4 I have clean CRC but in 2010 was banned from driving as a points totting up ban ( getting 12 points in 1 year)...i had 6 points and fine from court for speeding and 6 again in court for no insurance...still obviously CRC is clean
Many a experts here have said court fines are unspent in 5 yrs so even a clean CRC means no ILR....
that was my point now INNOCENT DEVILS (innocent after all) mentioned its upto us to trust the free advice lol

like I said before, do not expect people to reply when you post sarcy comments when they try to help you.

I do not understand why people just come here without doing research and start asking daft questions.

Now, for any offence, there is a rehabilitation period minor or major. for a speeding fine, you get 3 points and a 60 fine, this is so that you do not go to court thus avoiding bigger fines and penalties. the period for speeding SP code is 5 years from the data of offense.

Now, mr clever, if you would have bothered reading guidelines on UKBA, consecutive fines one after another may cause issues in making ILR application. In your case, you have been irresponsible enough to repeat the same speeding offense again and again thus making it a MAJOR offense in view of a CW because he/she will have to take into account that you didn't mend yoursen first or second time so it is highly unlikely you will, hope you are getting a point.

also, what you may see clean in CRC, PNC may state different story while they do enhance search on your profile. They know that you have been banned once and totted up.

digest some of what you can in your small head matey.

Hi everyone . This is a place where we can share our experience and thought about the topic , we might be right or partially right about the law . But don't try to crossfire about the comment , say as so called expert . I believe in here everyone try to help everyone with mutual respect .

Last week I share with some links about this conversation . And afterwards some one marked me so called expert. But the reality is I got my ILR last week with court letters and one ccj .

If you go through my link , then you will find case work handbook and how they deal with criminal conviction and traffic offence . In there well sated that if there any criminal proceeding by court.

Miyazi 78

[asser]

I would like to thank you everyone for their time and suggestions, this has been a big help, i personally have found members of this forum extremely friendly, helpful and considerate- so thank you all!!

I received my CRB and PCN this week which came absolutely clear so i do hope that everything will be fine , i have booked PEO in couple of weeks so will know for sure, I will declare my points as i believe not disclosing can lead to deception and can make things worse, will be sharing my experience with everyone here.

Do i declare my conviction i.e. Traffic offence code (IN14) or write in detail what exactly happened ??
Many Thanks

[asser]

Dear All

Thank you for all your help, i would like to share my experience for ILR application.

Went to PEO at 8:15 for 9:00 o clock appointment, went through security checks and at 8:45 was asked to go for interview with case worker, he went through my documents in detail and then asked me about my traffic offence and told me because i went to court my application will not be successful, i showed him my CRB and PNC check and explained him that there are no convictions showing on both certificates. He said that he will do the some checks and if anything comes on the system then my application will be unsuccessful and asked me if i would like to go ahead with the payment which i agreed to, i then went for my Biometric after where I got told that their will a wait of about 2 hrs, so i went out to grab a coffee came back after 30mins and was told that my application was successful, total time took to process the whole application was about 1hr 45 mins

Once again thank you to everyone

[linkers]

Congrats asser !