EU National marrying Indian Citzen on HSMP Visa-Both in UK

[noddy214]

Hi Folks,

I am looking for some advice either from the moderators or from other members in the forum. The following are my case details:

I came to UK on 5th January 2005 on an HSMP visa valid for one year. Towards the end of one year, I applied for my FLR and got the extention valid till Nov 2008 to complete my 1+3 years in UK before I can apply for my ILR/Permanent Residency.
In the meantime, HO changed the rules and now I have to complete 5 years in UK before I can apply for ILR/Permenant Residency. When I called HO, they adviced me to apply for another FLR in Nov 2008 and qualify as per the point system then and there after when I complete 5 years in Jan 2010, I can apply for ILR or Permanent Residence.

Now in the mean time I met my Swedish boyfriend, who has been in UK for last 7 year. He came to UK to do his Masters and has been working here since then. We plan to get married in the near future.

My question to the forum is what steps do I need to take once we are married? Do I need to convert myself as dependent of an EU National. Should he opt for a British Citizenship as we plan to live in UK in future. Under either circumstances, what happens to my HSMP visa.

Although as per the revised point system I qualify for an extention, keeping in consideration the frequent changes to the HSMP scheme, I am a bit worried about my being able to qualify in future and be able to live in UK.

Your opinions and suggestions are more than welcome.

Thanks,
Noddy.

[Marco 72]

If your objective is to get ILR / British citizenship as soon as possible, you might want to get your boyfriend to apply for ILR for himself. He can do this at once, since he has been here for over 5 years, if he can prove he has been "exercising Treaty rights". If he has been studying and working, it sounds like this is the case. Then once he has ILR and you are married, you can apply for a spouse visa, and two years later for ILR. At that point there are two possibilities:

1) Your husband (as he will then be) has by then become a naturalised British citizen. In this case you can apply for British citizenship straight away.

2) Your husband is still on ILR, in which case you will have to complete 5 years of residence, including at least 1 on ILR, before you can apply for naturalisation.

Since 2001 Swedish citizenship is not lost upon acquisition of another nationality. Feel free to ask if you need any advice on ILR application. I did it for myself last year, although the rules have slightly changed since then.

[noddy214]

Hi Marco,

Thanks alot for your quick response.

After posting my query, I had been upto some more research and found out that my boyfriend is eligible for ILR immediately. So that is good news. Since he has been in UK for 7 years now (2 studying and 5 working), we should be able to provide the documentary evidence.

Now moving on to my visa, what is the difference between Spouse visa and Non-EEA Residence Card.

Am I right to conclude that if we were to get married by June 2007, I should be eligible for ILR by June 2009, if I opt for the Spouse Visa.

On the other hand, if I opt for Non-EEA Residence card, to be eligible for ILR I will need to establish I have been in UK for 5 years, ie Jan 2005-Dec 2009. So the earliest I would apply for ILR is Jan 2010.

Under all circumstances, I guess I should stop persuing my HSMP visa. Although I will be eligible for ILR by Jan 2010, I do run the risk of not meeting the qualifying criteria.

Look forward to your reply.

Thanks,
Noddy.

[ppron747]

I think your conclusions are right...

If your boyfriend is intending to apply for naturalisation (which is the quickest way for you to achieve it as well..) he might like to apply for recognition of his Permanent Resident status now, on Form EEA3, downloadable from near the bottom of . this page on the IND website. Then he'll be all set (after passing the Life in UK test, of course) to apply for naturalisation on 1 May 2007, without risking the application being delayed by the need for IND to examine his PR status as part of the naturalisation process.

Then, switching to "spouse" status means ILR for you, two years later, and immediate qualification for naturalisation as the spouse of a British citizen.

[Marco 72]

Hi Noddy,

About your boyfriend applying for ILR, here is a bit of advice:

- Include as many documents as you can (letters from employers, P60's, bank statements, a few recent payslips). Get duplicates if you haven't got the originals.
- Don't send your boyfriend's original passport with the application, otherwise he may be without it for many months. Instead send certified copies of each single page of his passport. The IND will then let him know when they need the original at the last moment.

About the difference between spouse visa and EEA family permit, there are advantages and disadvantages to both.

Advantages of the EEA family permit:

1) It's free of charge
2) In case something happens to your husband or to your marriage you most likely won't get kicked out of the UK

Disadvantages: from what I understand you will have to wait 5 years on your family permit in order to qualify for ILR. So if you married in June 2007 you would have to wait until 2013 to get ILR, and then British citizenship.

Advantages of the spouse visa route:

a) You can get it almost immediately
b) After only two years you can get ILR very quickly, so if you got married in June 2007 you would qualify for ILR in 2009.

Disadvantages:

a') Expensive. Applying by post costs £335 for a spouse visa and the same again for ILR two years later, or whatever it will cost then. If you want to do it in person for faster service, the cost goes up to £500.
b') Both you and your husband will have to go through an interview process to verify that your marriage is genuine. This is not the case for EEA family permits.
c') If for any reason your marriage is terminated or your husband dies before you get ILR, it's quite likely that the IND will try to kick you out of the country.
d') Also I believe you won't have access to public funds while you are on the 2 year permit.

My wife chose to keep her EEA family permit and not to apply for a spouse visa. She's a US citizen and is not interested in getting ILR soon, so for her it's ok.

[ppron747]

......Disadvantages: from what I understand you will have to wait 5 years on your family permit in order to qualify for ILR. So if you married in June 2007 you would have to wait until 2013 to get ILR, and then British citizenship......

2012 for ILR/PR, I think, then 2013 for naturalisation.....

[noddy214]

Paul/Marco,

Thanks for your responses, but I have one more question:

If I go the EEA Family permit route, is it 5 years from the time I lived in UK or 5 years from the time they stamped the permit? I did go through the application form (EEA4) and the impression I got is that to get the ILR, my EEA spouse needs to have exercised his Treaty right.

The documentary evidence they ask for is, his emplyment or education documents and a marrige / Civil Partnership Certificate.

Would any of you throw light on this one.

Thanks,
Noddy

[ppron747]

This may be rubbish, because I don't claim any expertise in this particular field, but it seems likely to me that to countdown for ILR/PR on the basis of a Family Permit would start on the day it is issued. I cannot see that it would be backdated to the day you originally arrived, completely separately from your boyfriend/ fiancé/ spouse. This is certainly the way it would work for people going through the "spouse" provisions of the Immigration Rules.

Another semi-guess would be that, if your other half has already got his own confirmation of permanent residence by the time that your application arises, it shouldn't be necessary to produce the same evidence all over again, in support of your application.

But others may have a more informed view....

[Marco 72]

Hi Noddy, 2012 is correct, Paul was right. I can't add.

Unfortunately I don't think the countdown for ILR on the basis of an EEA family permit can be backdated. From what I understand you must have been "exercising Treaty rights" for five years. You only start exercising Treaty rights the moment you get your EEA family permit. For example my wife will be eligible in summer 2010, even though she'd spent almost six months here as a tourist prior to our wedding in summer 2005.

Once your boyfriend gets confirmation of his ILR stamped in his passport, you don't have to give the same evidence again, even when he is applying for naturalisation (this was discussed in a previous topic). When you apply for ILR you will have to show you (not your husband) have been exercising Treaty rights here, e.g. by studying, working, being supported by your husband/family, relying on your own funds, etc. If you get married in 2007 that will be in 2012.

[noddy214]

Marco / Paul,

Thanks alot for all your suggestions. I probably might need your help when we get down to filling his EEA3 form. I guess my boyfriend will need to go through all his files to get all the papers for past 5 years.

Regards,
Noddy

[Denebolina]

Do you know what is the process for applying for UK citizenship for a EU citizen? How long does it take?

Btw, I am in a similar situation....I have Italian citizenship and my fiance' is a non-eea national. He is applying for HSMP through the MBA provision and we will be moving to the UK from the US in a couple of months.

Reading this post has made me wonder whether it may be better for him to apply for a spouse visa instead of HSMP...it seems like it would be much faster for him to get to ILR if he does so...

otherwise we can just stick to HSMP for him and applying for UK citizenship for me...that is if I can then really apply straight away for him once I get it...and of course italian citizenship for him as well (which will take 3 yrs after marriage)

1) Your husband (as he will then be) has by then become a naturalised British citizen. In this case you can apply for British citizenship straight away.

[Marco 72]

Hi Denebolina,

I am Italian too, married to a non-EEA (US) citizen. About your options, it really depends on what priorities you have, and whether or not you wish to settle in the UK permanently. Is it important for your fiance to obtain EU citizenship? How long have you been in the UK?

About your future husband obtaining Italian citizenship, in principle he will indeed become eligible after three years if you reside outside Italy. However, keep in mind that Italian citizenship applications can literally take years. An Italian friend of mine married a Mexican citizen in Italy in 2001. She applied for citizenship in 2003, when she became eligible, but as of last year she was still waiting. An application for British citizenship on the other hand can be decided in as little as two weeks.

Feel free to send me a private message or an email.

[noddy214]

Hi Denebolina,

I myself am on an HSMP visa in UK. So for your fiancee, my suggestion would be to go via Spouse route or Non-EEA route. He will get an ILR alot faster and his visa is unconditional.

On HSMP, the scheme is constantly evolving and nobody knows when they will change it to what.

The reason why I am considering other options is that although I have an HSMP, I am a bit worried about the changes that may come.

Hope that helps but feel free to email me if want some suggestions regarding HSMP (Pros/Cons).

Noddy

[Marco 72]

One important thing is to decide how important it is for your partner to obtain ILR or BC. For instance: is he allowed to travel visa-free throughout the EU? My wife has no problems with that, and is not interested in BC. She's only here because I am here, and if something happened to me or to our marriage she would probably go back to the States. Last year we considered for a while the possibility of applying for a spouse visa, since getting ILR sooner would allow her to benefit from lower tuition fees if she decided to do a part-time university course. After some thought, we decided it wasn't worth the time, money and effort.

If my wife had been a Nigerian or Moldovan citizen, we would probably have applied for a spouse visa as soon as possible.

[noddy214]

Marco,

A slight diversion from the main topic.

Since you are already on ILR, for your childeren (if you have any or will have in future), will you be entitled to the UK Citizen tution fees or you be required to pay the higher fee.

In one of the posts I did read that if one of the parent is on ILR, they can claim all the Child Benetfit and Tax redemption, etc..

Thanks,
Noddy.

[Marco 72]

Hi Noddy,

About tuition fees, I already qualified for the 'home' fees long before I got ILR, since I was an EU citizen and had spent the previous 3 years inside the EEA+Switzerland area. Since I have ILR, my children are going to be BC's at birth.

If you are not an EU citizen, the requirement at present is that you must have spent the previous three years in the UK (apart from temporary absences), and not for the main purpose of getting full time education. In addition, you must have ILR by 1 September before your degree starts.

I'm afraid I don't really know anything about child benefits and tax redemption. At the moment we are not planning to have kids, so that's something we're going to look at in the future.

Marco

[appadu]

Hi

My case is a bit different.

I am in the UK on a 2 year work permit and an Indian citizen. I am planning to marry my longtime girlfriend who is a citizen of Holland.

She lived in the UK for one year to study and went back to Holland and has been working since.

Now she is planning to move to UK and we are thinking of getting married and settling down here.

What should I do?

1. My Visa runs out by August 2007. While my company is ready to apply for my Visa again, they say that I have to go back to india and apply for work permit after I stay in India for 3 months. Is this the only option?

2. Can I ask her to move here, find a job and then apply for my EA Family card? In this case, will my employment get affected? Can I change my visa status here itself or go to India?

Please advise.

Cheers
Appadu

[JAJ]

Advantages of the EEA family permit:

1) It's free of charge
2) In case something happens to your husband or to your marriage you most likely won't get kicked out of the UK

Non-EEA family members do not retain residence rights all the time in such instances. Section 6 of this document has more detail:
http://www.ind.homeoffice.gov.uk/docume ... iew=Binary

c') If for any reason your marriage is terminated or your husband dies before you get ILR, it's quite likely that the IND will try to kick you out of the country.

And not quite true either. See paragraphs 287-289 of the Immigration Rules:
http://www.ind.homeoffice.gov.uk/lawand ... ules/part8

There is also scope for discretionary concessions outside the rules (to grant ILR) - eg if there is a British citizen child in the picture.


Bear in mind that under the Immigration Rules, immediate ILR can be granted in some cases - this is never possible under EEA rules.

[JAJ]

Since I have ILR, my children are going to be BC's at birth.

Only if born in the United Kingdom, Isle of Man, Channel Islands or any British overseas territory other than the Cyprus SBAs.