Entry Clearance....Chennai.....Tough

[HSMPforever]

Dear Moderators,

This is my first message on this forum although i have always been reading through the various entries.

I was given HSMP approval in June 2006. I have until december end, to get my entry clearance. I applied for entry clearance in chennai at the VFS in october. After a few days of waiting, i was called for an interview.

At this interview, the entry clearance officer refused my visa on the grounds that i have made false representation. his comments related to the following:

1. Payslips seemed too pristine and looked too good to be true. It seemed very new, and the pay slip PAPER did not seem AGED.
2. I joined my firm as an assistant manager, which is just a step above the lowest rung in the company, and the officer wanted to know why i began as assistant manager. I told him the job looks good only in name and that its a clearical job for starters. I also told him that only those without bachelors degree started at the lowest rung in my company. he refused to believe me.
3. The visa officer at the interview asked me my weekly schedule. I told him i work at office on mondays and tuesdays and on site work for the other three days of the week. immediately, he wanted to know why i was not available at office on the monday the visa office called. I told him due to diwali, site work had lagged behind and i had to go check it. he refused to believe me.
4. all documents seemed recently issued according to him, and hence, unless i can show sufficiently AGED documents, he wont give visa.
5. he said my documents could have been prepared on a word processor. and hence, they are not authentic. i submitted company letterhead, sign and seal. yet, this is his opinion.
6. He asked me for the bank statement that shows salary credit. I had no idea that such a bank statement was necessary since they required only a bank statement that showed sufficient funds. so, next time round, i need to show the salary account.

I dont understand what is going on. i cant appeal, because that takes months. I am going to try and re-apply. no decisions yet.

need some sound advice on what documents i can show in my re-application for EC, that could convince them. and yes, i submitted IT returns for 2 years as well. so, what more do they need?

very low...... takes a lot out of you when they give hsmp approval, and then snatch it away by refusing entry clearance. please help....

[John]

i cant appeal, because that takes months. I am going to try and re-apply. no decisions yet.

How long ago was the refusal?

Re-apply? You mean re-apply for HSMP and then for EC? Do you qualify for HSMP under the new rules?

I was given HSMP approval in June 2006. I have until december end, to get my entry clearance.

I don't think that is quite right. I think you have 6 months to apply for your EC ... which is not the same thing at all as 6 months to receive it.

If you do re-apply, how would you go about counteracting the reasons for refusal on the previous application?

[AkashS]

You Need not to Re-apply for HSMP. But you can apply for EC again.

[root]

is it necessary to show salary slips for EC?

[HSMPforever]

I am RE-APPLYING FOR ENTRY CLEARANCE IN CHENNAI, INDIA. I have no intentions of re-applying for HSMP approval to the UK as of now.

I hope John was right when he says applying for entry clearance within six months of the approval letter date is all that matters and that receiving the entry clearance need not be within that six month period. if that is right, then i would breathe easy.

Well, at the visa interview, the refusal letter i was given was quite damning in that he called my documents "produced on a word processor and not genuine". He called my pay slips in particular not genuine and said that all the papers i submitted looked too good to be true. All the papers looked in PRISTINE FORM. apparently, thats a crime.

He has also questioned why i was given my first job as an assistant manager - straight out of college. When i told him that the assistant manager position in small company in INDIA is that of a glorified clerk, he refused to believe me. He called it "MANAGERIAL POSITION". I told him that it was managerial only in name and my job description, if he read it, would clearly explain the duties and responsibilities i had, none of which were remotely MANAGERIAL. he still refused my explanation.

The entry clearance officer also demanded that he see the BANK STATEMENT that SHOWED SALARY CREDIT, not just the bank statement that simply showed sufficient funds. this bamboozled me since the VFS or absolutely no one else ever told me that bank statements showing the salary credit was required to be produced at an ENTRY CLEARANCE application. I thought it was necessary only for HSMP approval, not for stamping of visa!

He finally rounded off my refusal letter by raising doubts about whether i really work where i claim to work, or earn the salary i claim to earn. He has written that i have made "FALSE REPRESENTATION" and that the documents i submitted are not GENUINE.

I am appalled that he chose such words! I wish i had shown the salary credit in the bank account first time round, that might have shut him up. anyway, i am going with the bank statements he required this time round. I am resubmitting all documentation but i cannot change or alter any of them nor do i want to. If he believes they look too good to be true, i can only provide additional CA statements, bank statements, additional letters from the company (even these additional letters will be met with comments like "produced on a word processor...etc", but i have no other choice), i can also provide STATEMENT OF ACCOUNTS FROM MY COMPANY, clearly showing my salary debit.

All the usual documents such as education certificates, tax returns, UK NARIC certificate, work ex certificate, contract of employment, appointment letters, vaf 1 form, etc, will be submitted this time round. If this time also, the EC officer thinks the documents are not sufficient, then to hell with the UK and to hell with the HSMP.

To me, there can be nothing more criminal than to have an ENTRY CLEARANCE OFFICER adjudicating on whether i deserve HSMP or not. His job is not to verify the reasons or to reassess my HSMP application. it is simply to check and verify the documents submitted and to request additional documentation if necessary. NOT ACCUSE APPLICANTS OF FALSE REPRESENTATION!

anyway, such is life. Any advice on additional documents that i could submit, will be useful. thanks to all of you that replied.

[Ashekt]

I read ur case with much interest and I feel that it is really not good on the part of that Immigration Officer to reject you the visa on such grounds...i know u must have felt insulted but don't u worry this time around as I feel u have now gathered enough documents...and for that newly looking docs I guess it is possible as at times the documents Home Office required are special in nature and we have to go back to our employer to get it and so it is new...it was the case with me as well....i went back to an employer who was 5 years old and so I got an Emplyer Reference letter which looks new...u can always give this argument...

And just don't loose hope or be disheartened as u have done enough to come up to this stage and have I forsee absolutely no problems which can hinder ur progression...All the very BEST!

[HSMPforever]

Thank you ever so much for your kind words. I have had the worst one month. Its been madness trying to figure out how to make PRISTINE looking paper look terrible or old. I have even thought of scuffing it up and tearing it in the sides and the like. But, thankfully, sanity prevails. I had got all my documents reissued and hence they looked terribly new. I hope this time round, he can give me the visa. My whole life hinges on the whims and fancies of an EC officer. well, such is life.

thanks once again for your words. i will keep you posted on the result.......Reapplying on december 1st i think. I had an appeal chance for the first refusal, but i didnt see a point in appealing. it takes 6 months for them to decide one way or another. thats way too long, andd i cant keep my life on hold until then. so, re-applying for EC in chennai. with god on my side, i hope no issues from here on!

[umeshsethi]

I am RE-APPLYING FOR ENTRY CLEARANCE IN CHENNAI, INDIA. I have no intentions of re-applying for HSMP approval to the UK as of now.

I hope John was right when he says applying for entry clearance within six months of the approval letter date is all that matters and that receiving the entry clearance need not be within that six month period. if that is right, then i would breathe easy.

Well, at the visa interview, the refusal letter i was given was quite damning in that he called my documents "produced on a word processor and not genuine". He called my pay slips in particular not genuine and said that all the papers i submitted looked too good to be true. All the papers looked in PRISTINE FORM. apparently, thats a crime.

He has also questioned why i was given my first job as an assistant manager - straight out of college. When i told him that the assistant manager position in small company in INDIA is that of a glorified clerk, he refused to believe me. He called it "MANAGERIAL POSITION". I told him that it was managerial only in name and my job description, if he read it, would clearly explain the duties and responsibilities i had, none of which were remotely MANAGERIAL. he still refused my explanation.

The entry clearance officer also demanded that he see the BANK STATEMENT that SHOWED SALARY CREDIT, not just the bank statement that simply showed sufficient funds. this bamboozled me since the VFS or absolutely no one else ever told me that bank statements showing the salary credit was required to be produced at an ENTRY CLEARANCE application. I thought it was necessary only for HSMP approval, not for stamping of visa!
.

This is blatant idocacy by the EC officer. The HSMP guys themselve want documents in a specific format and hence they will be made only recently for the purpose of HSMP. They are too DUMB to accept and evaluate documents like normal exp. letters etc. Similarly , if payslips are on good quality people these idiots find fault in that.

I dont see why you had to take this all to this nutty guy in first place. all you are supposed to take as per guidance documents for ec is letter of approval . bank statements showing funds , passport and offer letters of job if any. THIS IS LIKE VIOLATING THE RULE OF DOUBLE JEOPARDY,,,, accusing a man of same thing after found innocent once. Cause his collegaue only found your documents to be true and hence granted you HSMP approval so is he saying his colleagues in UK are fools or frauds ?

Clearly the British are not as law abiding as they want the world to think

Finally why are you saying job was clerical or manegerial...then they would say it is not really graduate level... all they want to do is confuse you.
A person straight out of IIM in India or London School of Business in UK can get a middle management role so who is this underpaid entry clearance clerk of person to object to that....

Clearly the guy was a damn dearly beloved but we cant do anything about such people. Caution , you will find such people in UK itself... but doesn't really matter LN Mittal is still the richest guy in UK!!!!

[HSMPforever]

Thanks for your response.

In india, the VFS, the visa facilitation services, and the british high commission, DEMANDS the following documents:

1. WORK EXPERIENCE CERTIFICATE
2. LAST 6 MONTHS PAYSLIPS ORIGINALS
3. SALARY CERTIFICATE
4. LAST 3 YEARS IT RETURNS
5. BANK STATEMENT CLEARLY SHOWING SALARY CREDIT AND SUFFICIENT FUNDS
6. VAF 1 FORM
7. APPROVAL LETTER ORIGINAL
8. CONTRACT OF EMPLOYMENT
9. LETTER OF APPOINTMENT
10. COMPANY PROFILE
11. PERSONAL STATEMENT OF EXPENSES IN THE UK
12. JOBS EXPECTED TO FIND IN THE UK
13. ACCOMODATION LETTERS
14. ORIGINAL PASSPORT
15. ORGANIZATION HIERARCHY CHART

so....it was not that we submitted these documents of our own accord. THESE WERE DEMANDED BY THE CHENNAI OFFICE FOR RE-ASSESSMENT OF THE HSMP APPROVAL, TO DETERMINE WHETHER WE REALLY DESERVE IT, AND THEN FINALLY PROVIDDING ENTRY CLEARANCE.

[umeshsethi]

Thanks for your response.

In india, the VFS, the visa facilitation services, and the british high commission, DEMANDS the following documents:

1. WORK EXPERIENCE CERTIFICATE
2. LAST 6 MONTHS PAYSLIPS ORIGINALS
3. SALARY CERTIFICATE
4. LAST 3 YEARS IT RETURNS
5. BANK STATEMENT CLEARLY SHOWING SALARY CREDIT AND SUFFICIENT FUNDS
6. VAF 1 FORM
7. APPROVAL LETTER ORIGINAL
8. CONTRACT OF EMPLOYMENT
9. LETTER OF APPOINTMENT
10. COMPANY PROFILE
11. PERSONAL STATEMENT OF EXPENSES IN THE UK
12. JOBS EXPECTED TO FIND IN THE UK
13. ACCOMODATION LETTERS
14. ORIGINAL PASSPORT
15. ORGANIZATION HIERARCHY CHART

so....it was not that we submitted these documents of our own accord. THESE WERE DEMANDED BY THE CHENNAI OFFICE FOR RE-ASSESSMENT OF THE HSMP APPROVAL, TO DETERMINE WHETHER WE REALLY DESERVE IT, AND THEN FINALLY PROVIDDING ENTRY CLEARANCE.

God almighty ! ..... i can understand the people frustration at this forum and mine as well now.... Assessment is becoming a subjective matter it seems and your chances are those of a gambler first going to 1 table being dealt cards by one dealer and then maybe going to another table being dealt card by another dealer who may not like your dress or may just being plain wanting to jack you and deal you a bad set of cards.........

And as in a casino, the house always wins... Same way the Home office always wins.. jacking people off 315 GBP initially and then rejacking them of 7650 Rs in EC fee....

Welcome to the land of the free............................!

[HSMPforever]

Yes, it is very depressing and rather pissing off when your HSMP approval LETTER is not the final word but rather simply a GUIDE for an entry clearance officer to tear you application apart, and then refuse visa.

I guess the 315 pounds is a rip off, and in many ways, it is going to get more expensive. close to 500 pounds per application. So, we are simply cash cows at a casino.

what irks me is that the refusals are so arbitrary and quite vague. They say, this is insufficient. but they never say WHAT IS SUFFICIENT. so, we keep playing DARTS in the dark, and hope we hit the bulls eye. thats such bullshit.

Indeed, the VFS told me that there is no PARTICULAR set of documents necessary, and then they demanded all this. so, imagine, they have absolutely no set procedure for documentation. What is sufficient from one person, may be deemed insufficient from another. so......my disappointment is i have spent a quarter of a million rupees on this visa procedures already. to have nothing to show for it at the end of it all really hurts. I feel like the poker player that has lost his savings. gutted. oh well, this is life too.

[neelimak]

hello

I got HSMP approval in sept..I applied for EC on 3rd Nov.
I was called for the interview on 23rd Nov. and my EC was refused.
They have given REFUSAL LETTER saying that

"I have carefully considered your application on the basis of your passport , application form,the papers you have proveded ans the answers given at interview.You have given is complete and true to the best of ur knowledge. However I am not satisfied on the balance of probabilities, that your application meets the requirements of paragrapf 135 for the following reasons:

I am not satisfied thet false representations were not made for the purpose of obtaining your immigration employment document and I am not prepared to exercise discretion in your favour.

BECAUSE

The employment documents you have provided as evidence of your previous and current employment all appear to have been issued at the same time. It has not been possible to have them independently verified and consequently I am not satisfied that they can be relied upon to portray an accurate representation of your past and present employment. You have submitted documents which show that you were originally employed as a lecturer on 18 May 02,you were then promoted to senior lecturer on 25 May 03 and finally to Head of Department on 24 May 04. You have not been able to demonstrate that you have been receiving the salary you claim and I am not satisfied that as Head of Department you would be paid in cash, as you claim, rather than directly into your bank account.

You are relying on your employment record to meet the requisite points to total to qualify for the HSMP. Given the doubt over the authenticity of your claimed employment history I am not satisfied that you met the points total required to qualify as HSM. Given that you have been issued with a HSMP Work Permit I am not satisfied that false representations were not made for the purpose of obtaining your immigration document I am not prepared to exercise discretion in your favour."



All of my pay slips,exp letters,appointment letter,promotion letters were given to me at the same time on special request.
I joined on 1st june.but it was given 18th May which was the date of issue of the appintment letter.
I got promoted to Sr Lr on 1st June.. on 25th may i was given the letter.
I got promoted to HOD on 1st June.. on 24th may i was given the letter.
In our college even principal also recieve the salary by cash only.
I dont debit my salary into my account . as it is a minimum amount i use that immediatly.
How can i show the salary in my account now.

What should i do now.Plaese help me.

[HSMPforever]

I am sorry to hear about your refusal.

If there is one thing i am certain of, it is simply the fact that salary paid in cash WILL NOT BE ACCEPTED by the british high commission.

Now, having told them that salary is received by cash, you cannot NOW go back with bank statements to them since that will only raise further doubts about your credibility.

Also, if you are claiming NO POINTS for earnings, (since you say that the salary you earn is a small amount), then also, they generally doubt the veracity of the claim.

I completely understand the fact that your papers are genuine and that you are genuinely employed by the university. But, it will not be accepted by the home office.

you have to show IT returns, BANK statement and SIX MONTHS PAY SLIPS.

All three of the above are COMPULSORY. even if one of them is missing, the visa cannot be issued.

There might be a way out for you. try calling up the high commision and finding out what else can be acceptable as additional evidence to prove employment and salary. Maybe, salary certificate from your university or a letter from the DEAN. Find out what other documentation they would like to prove this case.

All the best. I can tell you this. If you try submitting bank statements now, after having told them you have received your salary in cash, they will not accept it. So, try producing other documents such as vouchers where you sign after receiving cash, attendance registers to show you work there and other related documents. Maybe get the passport xerox of your DEAN along with his letter confirming your employment and salary and mode of payment. Also, take your IT returns. Its very important.

All the best.

[neelimak]

Thanku Mr HSMPforever

As my salary is 9,000 I donot come under IT payers
Once i recieve my salary i immedeatly use that or most of the time i give to my mom and the same answer i told to the EC officer.

Can I produce salary vouchers with my signature (as u said )and Staff attendance rigister copies(6 months) and copies our college maintains one register where all the staff salary details are mentioned.
And also I am planning to take letter from the Director saying that the college management pay the salary in cash even to the principal and on special request I was given all the exp letters at the same time.
Will all these help out .
Thank u
Neelima

[neelimak]

Hi all

When my EC refused they returned me back all the documents except my exp cert,salary cert,appointment letter, promotion letters, payslips and HSMP approval letter.
I gave application for the missing docs in VFS hyd .They said it takes 4 working days.
Will they return HSMP approval letter (original) or not?

[HSMPforever]

They will NOT return the ORIGINAL approval letter. I hope you have made a XEROX copy of it. If you have not, then you are in some trouble.

But, if you have a xerox, you can re-apply for ENTRY CLEARANCE with that xerox copy and a letter saying the original approval letter is with the BHC in chennai.

It is standard procedure for them to retain the work ex, salary and related documents. they will send you everything soon. Only the HSMP approval letter will not be returned.

all the best.

[neelimak]

thank u HSMPforever

When u r planning to reapply for EC
Is it cumpolsory to reapply or appeal for EC within 28 days ?
HSMP letter is valid for 6 months right.

I am not able to dare to apply for the VISA second time.
I am scared.

In my passport it was stamped with green colour in the last but one page.
i herd usually for rejections they use blue or black stamp. what is meant by green stamp.

[HSMPforever]

First of all,

The interview process is designed to be COLD, efficient, STERILE, frank and generally not very "friendly". The visa officers do have a huge task and they do it well atleast 50 % of the time, but there are times when they behave very rudely, or never smile, or do not listen to your answers or seem very rigid in their requirements.

There is absolutely no point in becoming frightened. Their job is to intimidate, in order to create an aura of the policeman around them. your job is to make sure that you FIGHT for your rights, since migration is a HUMAN RIGHT, subject to fulfilment of all conditions. I have heard many people call it a privilege, but i think that is cruel and unfair.

It is not a privilege. It is a right that is ours provided we fulfil their criteria. If they do not like us migrating, they can simply make the rules almost impossible, the way US has. So, they are not gods and we are not slaves. this mentality needs to change.

Why fear? whats the need to feel frightened or tentative? the british fellow has a job and his job interferes with your migration.

submit all documents again with additions and see what happens. who cares if you get another rejection? I mean, one plus one wont make any difference. and bad comes to worse, you can always LOSE THE PASSPORT and get a new one. Imagine what will happen if you succeed! it will be perfect. you fought for your rights and they agreed. so, then your dreams come true. you go to the UK.

who cares about a rejection stamp? go for it. I am certainly doing it. so...... and if you need more support, look for the case of KARAN4ALL in this forum. he has been through a lot as well. As for green, blue or black stamp, the migration visas get green. student visas blue and some other visas, black. so.....

[neelimak]

Thank u

[monakar]

Did you re-apply for Entry clearance ?
My hsmp was also approved in Feb and now EC is rejected.
My question is can i re-apply for EC only ?

Please help on this

First of all,

The interview process is designed to be COLD, efficient, STERILE, frank and generally not very "friendly". The visa officers do have a huge task and they do it well atleast 50 % of the time, but there are times when they behave very rudely, or never smile, or do not listen to your answers or seem very rigid in their requirements.

There is absolutely no point in becoming frightened. Their job is to intimidate, in order to create an aura of the policeman around them. your job is to make sure that you FIGHT for your rights, since migration is a HUMAN RIGHT, subject to fulfilment of all conditions. I have heard many people call it a privilege, but i think that is cruel and unfair.

It is not a privilege. It is a right that is ours provided we fulfil their criteria. If they do not like us migrating, they can simply make the rules almost impossible, the way US has. So, they are not gods and we are not slaves. this mentality needs to change.

Why fear? whats the need to feel frightened or tentative? the british fellow has a job and his job interferes with your migration.

submit all documents again with additions and see what happens. who cares if you get another rejection? I mean, one plus one wont make any difference. and bad comes to worse, you can always LOSE THE PASSPORT and get a new one. Imagine what will happen if you succeed! it will be perfect. you fought for your rights and they agreed. so, then your dreams come true. you go to the UK.

who cares about a rejection stamp? go for it. I am certainly doing it. so...... and if you need more support, look for the case of KARAN4ALL in this forum. he has been through a lot as well. As for green, blue or black stamp, the migration visas get green. student visas blue and some other visas, black. so.....

[geriatrix]

Did you re-apply for Entry clearance ?
My hsmp was also approved in Feb and now EC is rejected.
My question is can i re-apply for EC only ?

You might have overlooked but this thread has been dormant for almost 2 years.

You can make a fresh EC application as long as your HSMP approval letter remains valid (6 months from date of issue).

regards