EEA4 application: whose passport should I send?

[Liberal Immigrant]

Hi,

My mother (a Pakistani national) has now lived with me & my husband for 5 years in the UK on an EEA2 Residence Card. We are now applying for her EEA4 application.

My question is: whose passport am I supposed to send with the application: mine or my husband's or both of ours? (ofcourse I will also be sending my mother's!).

Note: I have been a house-wife but my husband has been working as an NHS doctor all these years in the UK. So I ll also be sending his job/pay details etc.

The EEA4 application does not make it very clear as to whose passport they require.

Thanks.

[EUsmileWEallsmile]

Example: A (EU national and exercising treaty rights) married to B (non-EU national or EU national doesn't really matter) lives with C, mother of B in the UK.

An application for C would require proof that B is the child of C, proof that A and B are married and proof that A was exercising treaty rights during the period of C's residence.

There will be other permutations depending on the specifics of the case.

Does this make sense?

[Liberal Immigrant]

Hi

That makes perfect sense but it still doesn't answer my question i.e. whose passport should I be sending: mine or my husband's or both of ours?

Thx

Example: A (EU national and exercising treaty rights) married to B (non-EU national or EU national doesn't really matter) lives with C, mother of B in the UK.

An application for C would require proof that B is the child of C, proof that A and B are married and proof that A was exercising treaty rights during the period of C's residence.

There will be other permutations depending on the specifics of the case.

Does this make sense?

[EUsmileWEallsmile]

In order to help you, you would need to give more information. Who is the EU citizen, how are they exercising treaty rights and how they are related to the lady applying for residence?

[EUsmileWEallsmile]

It's difficult to be precise without specific information. In the example I quoted previously, C would send passport, along with birth certificate to prove relationship to B, marriage certificate to show relationship between A and B. That proves that C is a family member of A.

A would send passport and proof that they were exercising treaty rights during the qualifying period.

A's passport or ID card required, C's passport required. B's birth certificate. A and B's marriage certificate.

I'm out of breath now:)

[Liberal Immigrant]

me & my husband are Irish citizens, whereas my mum is Pakistani national. So based on your post above, I guess I only have to send my husband's Irish passport along with my mum's pakistani passport.

In order to help you, you would need to give more information. Who is the EU citizen, how are they exercising treaty rights and how they are related to the lady applying for residence?

[Liberal Immigrant]

Also, her 5 year EEA2 residence card ran out on 27th February. For the last 2 months, we ve been busy trying to put together the documents for her EEA4 application.

I am really worried about the 2 month delay:

Does it matter that its now been 2 months since her EEA2 ran out? i.e. is her stay here still legal for the last 2 months?

AND

Will this 2 month effect her citizenship application next year? i.e. it wont count as a gap?

[EUsmileWEallsmile]

me & my husband are Irish citizens, whereas my mum is Pakistani national. So based on your post above, I guess I only have to send my husband's Irish passport along with my mum's pakistani passport.

In order to help you, you would need to give more information. Who is the EU citizen, how are they exercising treaty rights and how they are related to the lady applying for residence?

Correct.

[EUsmileWEallsmile]

Also, her 5 year EEA2 residence card ran out on 27th February. For the last 2 months, we ve been busy trying to put together the documents for her EEA4 application.

I am really worried about the 2 month delay:

Does it matter that its now been 2 months since her EEA2 ran out? i.e. is her stay here still legal for the last 2 months?

AND

Will this 2 month effect her citizenship application next year? i.e. it wont count as a gap?

Don't be concerned about the 2 month gap She's in the UK legally as long as she's the family member of an EU citizen exercising treaty rights. . As long as she has not been absent for more that 6 months per year during her residency she will be fine.

[Liberal Immigrant]

Thank u so much for clarifying this.

Sorry to be a pain but few more questions:

1. we got married 20 years ago in pakistan; we dont have a marriage certificate!!! I know, its crazy! & no, we cant get hold of one!

2. I dont have a birth certificate either which will prove mine & my mother's relationship (thx to 1970's Pakistan!!!)

And this is why there has been a delay in that we just dont know how to prove:

(a) that me & my husband are married &
(b) me & my mum are mother-daughter.

I guess I can show our house deeds + bank statements etc to prove that I am Mrs. Khan & husband is Mr. Khan.

But how do I prove mine & mum's relationship? I guess the only way is to do a DNA test but they are £500! Another line of argument I was thinking of is that: if HO did not raise this at the time of issuance of EEA2 & took our word for it, then why should they seek evidence of this now? Is this a valid argument or are they going to insist on seeing evidence? ...in which case should I mention that "we are willing to undergo a DNA test"?

Am I making sense?

Also, her 5 year EEA2 residence card ran out on 27th February. For the last 2 months, we ve been busy trying to put together the documents for her EEA4 application.

I am really worried about the 2 month delay:

Does it matter that its now been 2 months since her EEA2 ran out? i.e. is her stay here still legal for the last 2 months?

AND

Will this 2 month effect her citizenship application next year? i.e. it wont count as a gap?

Don't be concerned about the 2 month gap She's in the UK legally as long as she's the family member of an EU citizen exercising treaty rights. . As long as she has not been absent for more that 6 months per year during her residency she will be fine.

[EUsmileWEallsmile]

Thank u so much for clarifying this.

Sorry to be a pain but few more questions:

1. we got married 20 years ago in pakistan; we dont have a marriage certificate!!! I know, its crazy! & no, we cant get hold of one!

2. I dont have a birth certificate either which will prove mine & my mother's relationship (thx to 1970's Pakistan!!!)

And this is why there has been a delay in that we just dont know how to prove:

(a) that me & my husband are married &
(b) me & my mum are mother-daughter.

I guess I can show our house deeds + bank statements etc to prove that I am Mrs. Khan & husband is Mr. Khan.

But how do I prove mine & mum's relationship? I guess the only way is to do a DNA test but they are £500! Another line of argument I was thinking of is that: if HO did not raise this at the time of issuance of EEA2 & took our word for it, then why should they seek evidence of this now? Is this a valid argument or are they going to insist on seeing evidence? ...in which case should I mention that "we are willing to undergo a DNA test"?

Am I making sense? :|

Marriage certificates and birth certificates would be an easy way of demonstrating familiarity. You are right to point out that your mum got the residence card in the first instance without it and perhaps should not require it again.

I wouldn't rush off to get DNA tests. I would apply as things are. I would in parallel see if there is a way of getting the documentation from Pakistan (surely there must be).

One thing is certain, not applying will not get you an answer.

[Liberal Immigrant]

I am about to send off the application; just a few more questions:

1. My mother's new pakistani passport has arrived as the previous one has just expired. Do I need to send both passports or just the new 1? I ask because the new one is blank & all her travel/immigration stamps are on her last passport.

2. Also, she visited Ireland many times but her passport was not stamped at Dublin, nor on the way back at heathrow. Do I still need to declare it in the application form as "days spent outside of the uk"?

3. My husband has travelled extensively over the last 5 years (but not more than a total 6 months in any year)...he only has some stamps for some countries...because he has an EU (irish) passport. Do I really need to dig up all his e-tickets etc to find out all the dates he was away in 5 years or are they lenient?

[EUsmileWEallsmile]

1. My mother's new pakistani passport has arrived as the previous one has just expired. Do I need to send both passports or just the new 1? I ask because the new one is blank & all her travel/immigration stamps are on her last passport.

All that is required is a valid passport. You can submit the expired one if you wish, but you don't have to.

[EUsmileWEallsmile]

2. Also, she visited Ireland many times but her passport was not stamped at Dublin, nor on the way back at heathrow. Do I still need to declare it in the application form as "days spent outside of the uk"?

If she has a UK residence card (article 10), the passport should never be stamped.

[EUsmileWEallsmile]

3. My husband has travelled extensively over the last 5 years (but not more than a total 6 months in any year)...he only has some stamps for some countries...because he has an EU (irish) passport. Do I really need to dig up all his e-tickets etc to find out all the dates he was away in 5 years or are they lenient?

If he was not absent for more than six months in any given year he could simply declare that fact.

There was a thread on this recently. I'll try and dig it out for you.

[EUsmileWEallsmile]

This thread may interest you.

http://www.immigrationboards.com/viewto ... ht=outside

[Liberal Immigrant]

2. Also, she visited Ireland many times but her passport was not stamped at Dublin, nor on the way back at heathrow. Do I still need to declare it in the application form as "days spent outside of the uk"?

If she has a UK residence card (article 10), the passport should never be stamped.

Thats fine but I would still need to declare all those dates when she was in Ireland i.e. outside of the UK? As they are no stamps in the passport, I am struggling to recall from memory all the dates of her visits.

[EUsmileWEallsmile]

No, just make a statement to the effect that you weren't out of the UK for more than six months.

[Liberal Immigrant]

Yes that's what I did. Sent off the application yesterday; lets wait & see now

Also, does she or me/my husband need any comprehensive sickness insurance? I am pretty sure we dont but just want to make sure.

[EUsmileWEallsmile]

...but my husband has been working...all these years in the UK...

Workers don't require CSI (he's an EU citizen as well, isn't he)?

[Liberal Immigrant]

...but my husband has been working...all these years in the UK...

Workers don't require CSI (he's an EU citizen as well, isn't he)?

Yes he is an Irish national, like me. Rather we both are dual nationals. Thanks once again for your timely & valuable advice. I did think whether I should apply via solicitors but the quote I was given was £1500 which I thought was extornionate for a straight forward application. I have always used this forum for advice & so thought I'd save the money & do it ourselves.

Just really hope it works out now. Have sent all passports, my husband's last payslip + letter from his NHS trust. The only thing I am a little bit concerned about is the lack of utility bills in my mother's name but thats bcoz she doesnt really run the financial affairs of our house. She only has her bank statements & her mobile phone bill in her name, rest all utlities are in mine & husband's names. Hope this wont cause an issue.

Regards.

[EUsmileWEallsmile]

...She only has her bank statements & her mobile phone bill in her name...

Should be more than enough to evidence her residence in the UK.