Friend here illegally needs medical help

clairey · Post by **clairey** » Mon Dec 04, 2006 10:01 am

I really hope someone here can help. A friend of ours (originally from Albania) is in the UK illegally (I'm not sure of his exact status - I believe he claimed asylum and failed, then "disappeared") and has been in the UK for several years now. He has been working, paying tax and National Insurance. Sadly, he has just been diagnosed with cancer of the kidney, and needs chemotherapy, but has been told he will not be able to have it as he has no papers to prove he eligible for NHS treatment. Clearly, with something like cancer, you don't want to hang around, battling it out with burocracy. As far as I can see, his options are either return to Albania, try to battle it out here, or marry his girlfriend who has an EU passport.

Any advice would be very welcome.

Thanks.

Post by **John** » Mon Dec 04, 2006 11:18 am

his options are either return to Albania, try to battle it out here, or marry his girlfriend who has an EU passport.

Having just had a look at the NHS regulations I don't think he is eligible for treatment. And as regards "marry his girlfriend who has an EU passport" he will not be allowed to marry in the UK, given that he would need a CoA ... Certificate of Approval to Marry ... and he will not get that due to his lack of proper UK immigration status.

One plan would be for him to return to Albania, get married there, and then apply for an EEA Family Permit at the British Embassy in Albania.

Alternatively, how long has he been living with his girlfriend (if indeed he lives with her at all)? If at least two years, and evidence can be produced to show that is the case, he could return to Albania and try to get an EEA Family Permit on the basis of an unmarried person in a "durable relationship" with an EU Citizen.

clairey · Post by **clairey** » Mon Dec 04, 2006 11:25 am

Thanks John,

I'm not sure how long he's been with his girlfriend, I'll have to get my husband to ask him. I realise he can't marry here, as my husband and I just managed to marry before the CoA came in...

I just want to work out his options, as he'll need to work quickly on this one.

clairey · Post by **clairey** » Tue Dec 05, 2006 10:08 pm

UPDATE

We saw our friend and his fiancée tonight. He needs chemotherapy NOW as the cancer is not in his kidney, but in his lymph nodes. His fiancée has contacted the German Embassy, who are insisting that both of them need an appointment at a registry office in German before they can marry in Albania. I don't know if that's correct, but they just don't have the time. He has consulted a human rights lawyer, but going through the courts could take years. We are just at a loss as to what to do. He's such a lovely guy who doesn't deserve this.

Please if anyone can help in ANY way, we'd be so grateful.

Post by **John** » Tue Dec 05, 2006 11:09 pm

Do we now know how long the two of them have lived together (if indeed they have ever lived together)?

Woody · Post by **Woody** » Tue Dec 05, 2006 11:24 pm

if it is that urgent wouldn't it be better just to return to Albania to be sure to get treatment?

Post by **JAJ** » Wed Dec 06, 2006 3:30 am

John wrote:Do we now know how long the two of them have lived together (if indeed they have ever lived together)?

And how long has his German girlfriend lived in the United Kingdom?

Post by **JAJ** » Wed Dec 06, 2006 3:32 am

clairey wrote:[His fiancée has contacted the German Embassy, who are insisting that both of them need an appointment at a registry office in German before they can marry in Albania.

I'm not sure if the German Embassy has any jurisdiction over marriage laws in Albania. Getting the marriage recognised in Germany might be a different issue, but UK law generally recognises foreign marriage as valid provided they are valid in the country in which the marriage took place.

I can't see the German Embassy having any veto over UK law either.

But others may know more.

Christophe · Post by **Christophe** » Wed Dec 06, 2006 8:21 am

clairey wrote:...His fiancée has contacted the German Embassy, who are insisting that both of them need an appointment at a registry office in German before they can marry in Albania...

Presumably that would be if the marriage is to be recognised (or readily recognised) in Germany. It wouldn't be a requirement for a marriage contracted in Albania to be recognised in the UK, even if one of the parties is a German national. It could conceivably be a requirement under Albanian law, of course, but that seems very unlikely (and, moreover, it also seems unlikely that people at the German embassy would be pronouncing upon, much less that they would know about, Albanian law).

clairey · Post by **clairey** » Wed Dec 06, 2006 9:58 am

Thanks guys,

They are living together, but it hasn't been 2 years yet, and they don't have things like bills in both names anyway.

I know a bit about getting married in Albania, as my friend had her wedding there. You need a certificate from a registry office stating that you are free to marry, translated into Albanian. What the German Embassy is tell her is that in order to get this certificate, both of them have to go to Germany to get it.

It's really looking like going back to Albania is his only option, which worries us imensely. I've seen the "best hospital in Tirana" (my father-in-law was in there) and it was horrible. The doctors and nurses demand money for themselves before they will do anything. We had to keep effectivly bribing the nurses to give my father-in-law the injections he needed. There was no privacy and all the rooms were overcrowded and dirty. Can you really see him being able to get effective treatment over there? I am going to see our local MP for help on Friday to see if he can suggest anything we haven't thought of already.

Smit · Post by **Smit** » Wed Dec 06, 2006 10:32 am

My sympathies but it just shows that there is a high price to pay for your friend being an "illegal" immigrant.

If he wants treatment here in the UK, the only way I can see out would be for friends and family to raise money for him privately and try approaching "cancer" charities.

Dawie · Post by **Dawie** » Wed Dec 06, 2006 1:41 pm

Smit wrote:My sympathies but it just shows that there is a high price to pay for your friend being an "illegal" immigrant.

If he wants treatment here in the UK, the only way I can see out would be for friends and family to raise money for him privately and try approaching "cancer" charities.

Actually my experience has been that no-one asks any questions when you check yourself into an NHS hospital. As I posted in another question the other day, I have been to hospital several times in London and once even spent a week in hospital recovering from a chest infection. At no stage did anyone ever ask to see any proof of my citizenship, national insurance number or anything like that. They only thing they asked me was my name and postal address.

If your friend is genuinely sick they are unlikely to turn him away.

clairey · Post by **clairey** » Wed Dec 06, 2006 2:04 pm

Unfortunately, they are categorically refusing to start treatment until they confirm his status. He has had a biopsy and treatment up to date with no problems (apart from the fact they nearly killed him when he had his biopsy, but that's another story).
Another friend of mine who has an Albanian surname was sent a letter by her health authority when she was pregnant asking her to confirm her nationality, otherwise she would have to pay £2,700 for pre-natal care. I guess it's a case of "If you need expensive treatment and you have a foreign sounding name, we'll check up on you".
I've just looked on the Department of Health website - it looks like if we could get his chemo started and then they do the immigration check, he wouldn't have to pay. It's just so hard.

Dawie · Post by **Dawie** » Wed Dec 06, 2006 2:13 pm

Although I'm not British, I have a very English sounding name (I'm from South Africa), English is my home language and I look Western European. I suspect that this might have something to do with no-one asking me any questions.

clairey · Post by **clairey** » Wed Dec 06, 2006 3:03 pm

The hospital have just called and said his treatment "would be a maximum of £900,0000, so what would you like to do?". It's unreal.

I've just spoken to a very helpful lady from the Refugee Council who sounded very helpful - they'd like to see him tomorrow to see how they can help.

clairey · Post by **clairey** » Thu Dec 07, 2006 7:34 pm

Apparently, he is not here illegally - he would only be "illegal" if he had been served with a deportation order, which he hasn't been. I don't know if this now changes things with a view to them getting married here in the UK? Does anyone know? Although that still won't get him his treatment any more quickly

He said the refugee council were very positive, and they advised him to go straight to see a solicitor who dealt in exactly his type of case, The solicitor left him sitting in the waiting room for 5 hours, and then didn't see him. Nice was to treat someone who's sick, isn't it?

Post by **JAJ** » Thu Dec 07, 2006 11:26 pm

clairey wrote:Apparently, he is not here illegally - he would only be "illegal" if he had been served with a deportation order, which he hasn't been. I don't know if this now changes things with a view to them getting married here in the UK? Does anyone know? Although that still won't get him his treatment any more quickly

While we all have sympathy for his predicament, suggesting he is "not here illegally" because he has not been served with a deportation order is surely a matter of semantics. The fact remains that he is not authorised under the immigration laws to be in the United Kingdom, and this is "not legal" presence by any sensible definition of the term.

stedman · Post by **stedman** » Sat Dec 09, 2006 4:35 pm

Dawie wrote:Although I'm not British, I have a very English sounding name (I'm from South Africa), English is my home language and I look Western European. I suspect that this might have something to do with no-one asking me any questions.

Possibly, but I'm a doctor in the NHS and have never refused to treat anyone, even using expensive new drugs. I have Iraqis, Somalians, Congolese etc people on my books who breezily tell me they have no legal status in this country. I roll my eyes to the skies, but when I got into medical school, one of the first precepts of medical care I learnt was "primum non nocere" (firstly, do no harm) and by denying a sick person treatment because of their nationality, I am effectively harming them. In this man's case the longer he is not treated the more likely the cancer will end up untreatable, and how can anyone live with that?

clairey · Post by **clairey** » Mon Dec 11, 2006 9:42 am

Stedman, I'm pretty sure it's the hospital managers denying him treatment, not the doctors. Although the consultant's secretary is no longer returning his calls either.

by denying a sick person treatment because of their nationality, I am effectively harming them. In this man's case the longer he is not treated the more likely the cancer will end up untreatable, and how can anyone live with that?

That's what I can't understand. It's not like he's thought "while I'm over here, I'll have my tonsils out for free. I've always been meaning to get those done..." Without treatment, he will die. Simple as that. I just hope the people refusing him have strong consciences.

Post by **JAJ** » Tue Dec 12, 2006 3:00 am

clairey wrote:Stedman, I'm pretty sure it's the hospital managers denying him treatment, not the doctors. Although the consultant's secretary is no longer returning his calls either ... Without treatment, he will die. Simple as that. I just hope the people refusing him have strong consciences.

I'm not a doctor so can't claim any medical expertise, but bearing in mind the fact you mentioned chemotherapy earlier in the thread, I'm wondering if the real reason for the refusal is that such treatment may be clinically ineffective (rather than immigration status). From a quick review of the literature, chemotherapy seems not to be a preferred treatment for the majority of cases of this type of cancer.

eg http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/kidney ... DSECTION=7
http://www.cancer.gov/cancertopics/pdq/ ... ient/page5
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kidney_cancer

If the condition is terminal then there may well be scope to remain in the United Kingdom on humanitarian grounds:
http://www.ind.homeoffice.gov.uk/docume ... iew=Binary
(page 5)

"Another aspect of our work where Article 3 is important is where consideration is being given to the removal of a person undergoing medical treatment where the country to which we are removing them cannot offer comparable treatment to that which they enjoy in the United Kingdom. Recent case law (both at domestic and Strasbourg level) has confirmed that the circumstances in which an individual can resist removal on Article 3 related medical grounds will be exceptional. The Strasbourg Court has found that a person who is subject to removal cannot in
principle claim any entitlement to remain in the territory of a Contracting State in order to continue to benefit from medical, social or other forms of assistance provided by the removing State. The Court of Appeal has found that where similar treatment may not be available to a person in their home country because of its cost, this does not amount to a claim of inhuman or degrading treatment. However to attempt to return someone to a country where there is a complete absence of treatment, facilities or social support which could result in an imminent and lingering death and cause acute physical and mental suffering would be very likely to engage our obligations under Article 3, where the UK is treated as having accepted responsibility for care."

A good immigration lawyer should be able to assist further if this is the case. Obviously it's a very difficult case with all sympathy due.

clairey · Post by **clairey** » Tue Dec 12, 2006 8:49 am

JAJ wrote:I'm not a doctor so can't claim any medical expertise, but bearing in mind the fact you mentioned chemotherapy earlier in the thread, I'm wondering if the real reason for the refusal is that such treatment may be clinically ineffective (rather than immigration status). From a quick review of the literature, chemotherapy seems not to be a preferred treatment for the majority of cases of this type of cancer.

JAJ, I've had a look at all his letters and papers from the hospital and his consultant has said he needs a course of chemotherapy (even though, as you correctly state, it is not always then main treatment in such cases), and then there is a letter asking him to confirm his nationality either with a passport, or by providing his details to be sent via secure fax to the Home Office. He's seeing an immigration lawyer recommended by the Refugee Council, so fingers crossed something might happen soon.

clairey · Post by **clairey** » Mon Jan 08, 2007 11:42 am

Sorry to give this a bit of a bump, but need some advice please.

Our friend has now applied to the Home Office on the basis of his durable relationship with his German Fiancée. He's got a comfirmation letter regarding his application, and his immigration lawyer has said that he is now able to work - is this the case? If he can really work legally on the basis of this letter stating his application is being dealt with by the Home Office, surely he can get treatment now?

Post by **John** » Mon Jan 08, 2007 11:51 am

his immigration lawyer has said that he is now able to work - is this the case?

Technically yes, work is permitted, if a Family Member of an EEA Citizen. However there is a great problem! There is no ability to prove that ability to work to a prospective employer, and thus such employer would shy away from starting the employment.

clairey · Post by **clairey** » Mon Jan 08, 2007 11:59 am

It says on his letter there is a number prospective employers can call to check his status with the Home Office. But really thinking about work is the last thing on his mind. What we really need to do is check if he is now eligible for treatment. His hospital are refusing to see his as he "hasn't been legally resident here for 1 year".

I'm going to take him to see our MP on Friday to see if there's anything he can do - I've been round in circles with the Department of Health and Guy's Hospital Overseas Dept. getting passed from pillar to post with different replies all round.

Post by **John** » Mon Jan 08, 2007 12:07 pm

His hospital are refusing to see his as he "hasn't been legally resident here for 1 year".

Interesting! Where on earth did they dig up that requirement? It simply does not exist! It comes down to whether he is "ordinarily resident" in the UK, and it is accepted, for example, that someone coming to the UK on a 2-year spouse visa meets that test as soon as they arrive.

Certainly make contact with the MP and ask for their assistance to sort out this nonsense.

Immigrationboards.com: Immigration, work visa and work permit discussion board

Friend here illegally needs medical help

Friend here illegally needs medical help