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HSMP, 1+3+1 EXTENSIONS

Archived UK Tier 1 (General) points system forum. This route no longer exists.

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aj77
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Post by aj77 » Wed Nov 15, 2006 12:47 am

Well my opinion is that we should stick to only one point that we came under old terms and conditions and it was very clearly mentioned in that that future changes wont affect us and then challenge the decision in the court if it doesn't come in our favour.
I hope courts of UK still do justice and will decide in favour of us.
We need the input of discussions with solicitors.It would be useful if we could get some feedback from Lawyers.

Rog
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Post by Rog » Thu Nov 16, 2006 8:15 am

I have bad news. The Home Office have comfirmed that the earnings table of greater than 12 months would apply for those at 1+3 level seeking the 2nd FLR. I reproduce their reply as below
Thank you for your email.

Your income criteria will relate to the first table, i.e. the one relating to previous leave of greater than 12 months.

Kind regards,

Matt Jones

Work Permits (UK)
Customer Contact Centre
Home Office
PO Box 3468
Sheffield
S3 8WA

0114 2074074

> -----Original Message-----

> Sent: Monday, November 13, 2006 10:59 AM
> To: WPCustomers
> Subject: RE: Query on FLR - HSMP
>
> Dear Sir
>
> Thank you for your reply and a lot of information in the FAQ you have sent, but my question is still unresolved. I wish to know that if I am currently under 3 years extension, after initial 1 year HSMP approval, at the conclusion of 4th year when I apply for 1 more year's extension to complete the 5 years required for ILR, which income criteria will be considered to make up the 75 points, the first table of salary levels for initial leave of 12 months or less or the second table with higher salary levels for those with intial clearance of more than 12 months.
>
> regards

ATBPLC
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Post by ATBPLC » Thu Nov 16, 2006 8:24 am

Thanks Rog,
I don't rely most of the tim eon letters from HO staff. Notwithstanding it is an indication of of their line of thought.

The question is ;how do they want to resolve the double-standard in giving 4 years to some and 3 years to others? I think what they need to do is regularise that irregularity.

Altyernatively, instead of asking employers to apply for work permit (inspite 0f waiver of market test), we should be asked to obtain a letter from employer confirming that we are permanently employed.

At any rate just like others said we should say NO to retrospective implementation.

Rog
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Post by Rog » Thu Nov 16, 2006 8:52 am

End of the Work Permit Scheme

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

"Wednesday 15 November 2006"
The Government has announced that, from 2007, the current rules for managed migration will be replaced by a new points based system and the current work permit scheme will be abolished .


As per above directive in 2007 the WP scheme may no more be there in 2007 when the 4 years for most HSMP holders on 1+3 are up, hence even the remote possiblity of getting the employer to file WP would no more be there. So the only road ahead for those of us who spent their hard earned savings for a long term commitment for UK is to fight it out with Home Office.

root
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Post by root » Thu Nov 16, 2006 10:08 am

Rog wrote:End of the Work Permit Scheme

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

"Wednesday 15 November 2006"
The Government has announced that, from 2007, the current rules for managed migration will be replaced by a new points based system and the current work permit scheme will be abolished .
Really! there will be no work permit scheme in 2007. Where u read this?

Rog
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Post by Rog » Thu Nov 16, 2006 10:23 am

On the VBSI site. The point is that the Home Office has started the dangerous practice of changing their rules retrospectively as and when it suits them and we never know at the time when we actually file for FLR what will be in force. Maybe 10 years for ILR and salary level of 50000 ?
Meanwhile asylum seekers and refugees will continue to be rewarded with British passports.

EdgeHillMole
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Post by EdgeHillMole » Thu Nov 16, 2006 9:10 pm

root wrote:
Rog wrote:End of the Work Permit Scheme

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

"Wednesday 15 November 2006"
The Government has announced that, from 2007, the current rules for managed migration will be replaced by a new points based system and the current work permit scheme will be abolished .
Really! there will be no work permit scheme in 2007. Where u read this?

My understanding was that terminating the Work Permit Scheme was part of the document, "A Points-Based System: Making Migration Work for Britain" signed by Charles Clarke, and published in March 2006.

According to that proposal, there would be several point-based tiers. Tier 1 would be for scientists and doctors. Tier 2 would be for skilled workers with jobs, such as nurses, teachers, engineers, IT professionals, etc.

The Tier 1 requirements for scientists and doctors look uncannily like the new HSMP requirements. 30 points for a Bachelors, 35 for Masters, 50 for a PhD, 45 points for a salary of 40,000+, 20 points if aged 27 or under, etc.

The Tier 2 requirements for all other highly skilled workers are not mentioned anywhere in the new HSMP documentation, because Tier 2 was supposed to replace the Work Permit Scheme. So, IMO they are trying to group current Work Permit holders and non-Tier 1 HSMP extension applicants (Who do not qualify under the new HSMP) together under the Work Permit Scheme. Then perhaps they plan to move all Work Permit holders (Including non-Tier 1 HSMP) onto Tier 2 at some point in the future?

I wonder if they have yet considered the negative impact filling out all that work permit paperwork will have on our employers (UK businesses that pay taxes and UK business owners who vote)....
PROUD to be part of the 2008 European Capital of Culture

ATBPLC
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Post by ATBPLC » Fri Nov 17, 2006 11:12 pm

13. What happens to highly skilled migrants already in the UK, but who are no longer eligible under the new FLR criteria?
We have developed transitional arrangements to avoid disadvantaging those that fail to meet the new requirements but are making a useful contribution to the UK.

Those working in a skilled job, but who don't qualify under the new HSMP criteria, will be offered the opportunity to seek further leave to remain under the Work Permits scheme. In these cases, the usual Resident Labour Market Test will be waived, provided that migrants have been working for at least eight months out of a twelve months' grant or at least twelve months out of a twenty-four months' grant.

Migrants in self-employment who fail to meet the 75 points under the Points Scoring Assessment (PSA), will be able to have their applications considered under the transitional arrangements for Self Employed Persons included on the FLR(HSMP) form. If they meet the requirements of these transitional arrangements, this will be accepted in lieu of meeting the 75 points required under the PSA. They will still have to meet the other Immigration Rules requirements, including the mandatory English Language Test.


From the above, I still have the impression that these changes might not be intended for 1+3+1 group, if the above is interpreted correctly. Watch the emphasis is on 12 months or 24 months grants, i.e initial grant of 1 0r 2 years

victorind
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Post by victorind » Sat Nov 18, 2006 12:11 am

ATBPLC wrote:13. What happens to highly skilled migrants already in the UK, but who are no longer eligible under the new FLR criteria?
We have developed transitional arrangements to avoid disadvantaging those that fail to meet the new requirements but are making a useful contribution to the UK.

Those working in a skilled job, but who don't qualify under the new HSMP criteria, will be offered the opportunity to seek further leave to remain under the Work Permits scheme. In these cases, the usual Resident Labour Market Test will be waived, provided that migrants have been working for at least eight months out of a twelve months' grant or at least twelve months out of a twenty-four months' grant.

Migrants in self-employment who fail to meet the 75 points under the Points Scoring Assessment (PSA), will be able to have their applications considered under the transitional arrangements for Self Employed Persons included on the FLR(HSMP) form. If they meet the requirements of these transitional arrangements, this will be accepted in lieu of meeting the 75 points required under the PSA. They will still have to meet the other Immigration Rules requirements, including the mandatory English Language Test.


From the above, I still have the impression that these changes might not be intended for 1+3+1 group, if the above is interpreted correctly. Watch the emphasis is on 12 months or 24 months grants, i.e initial grant of 1 0r 2 years
This is becoming crazier and crazier, i was in the impression that self employment can be a saviour if required, that doesnt look a possibilityas well.

ecker
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Post by ecker » Sat Nov 18, 2006 11:49 pm

You guys that have experience dealing with the extension issues would be perfect in suggesting an answer to my post below:
http://www.immigrationboards.com/viewtopic.php?t=11506

Cheers :)

ATBPLC
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Post by ATBPLC » Wed Nov 22, 2006 7:42 pm

HI GUYS WE MUST PRESS ON AS WE CANNOT BE SACRIFICED AND BE MADE VICTIMS OF CHANGES IN POLITICAL IMPERATIVES IN UK

inderjit
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hsmp 1+3+1

Post by inderjit » Mon Nov 27, 2006 11:34 pm

I got my 1st 3 yrs extension in 2005. I need 1 yr extension to complete my 5 yrs.
I email to home office regarding this - how new rule will affect to get 1yr extension. they send me link for FAQ. that FAQ donot have relevent answer.
if you analysis point system, there is one point need to be consider.
eg if you apply for fresh case you will get 20 points if your age is less then 27. and same no of point you will get when you apply for extension for age between 28-29. that means they should give us same no of points for 32 yrs when we will apply for 2nd extension after 4yrs of period.
what do you think. do any body having any idea about this ?

ATBPLC
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Post by ATBPLC » Wed Nov 29, 2006 10:46 am

LETTER FROM HOME SECRETYARY IN RESPONSE TO IMMIGRATION LAWYERS REACTION TO CHANGES

Consultation and timing:

I should first clarify that these changes are not the points based
system (PBS) and that we have not yet introduced the PBS. The
changes are, as the announcement stated, the first step towards the
pes, but they are different to that system. The new attributes are
indeed the same as those set out in the PBS Command Paper. However,
we have changed the HSMP attributes on two previous occasions within
the brief lifetime of the programme and these changes are not
different in kind to those. Indeed, HSMP has always been a
'points based system'. Many of the features which will define the
PBS - the
introduction of control tests (for example, funds), the move to a
one-stage
decision process for Tiers 1-3, and the removal of the right of
appeal in entry
clearance cases - have not been introduced with this change. It is
therefore
not correct to assert that we have now introduced the PBS without
consultation.


It is not our normal practice to carry out formal public
consultations on changes to the Immigration Rules, and I strongly
dispute the contention that we have broken any undertakings to
consult.


The changes will come into effect on 5 December and we will be
monitoring their impact, fully evaluating the new arrangements
before we make formal preparations for the implementation of Tier 1
of the PBS.

An announcement of a definite policy change within three weeks
would, I believe, have led to an even larger increase in the number
of applications, which would have resulted in very significant
operational difficulties, and, as a result, poor customer service
for applicants. In the light of this, there is no reason not to
bring the changes in quickly. However, by making the forms and
guidance available during the suspension period, we have tried to
avoid inconveniencing our clients.

You are also concerned that people who were in the process of
preparing
their HSMP applications have been disadvantaged by the changes. I
accept
that applicants in some cases may need to make further enquiries to
obtain additional documents, but this is unlikely to result in
significant additional expense - applicants will possess many of the
necessary documents themselves and are likely to be able to use some
of the others which they were already preparing to submit. In fact,
applicants can still submit applications on the old FLR (lED) form
during the suspension period, so they will not necessarily have to
redo their whole application. They can either send in additional
material or wait for us to write out to them, requesting additional
documents.

Tests at extension

I do not accept that those who receive a grant of leave in a
category have
a legitimate expectation that the rules for further grants of leave
within that
category which existed at the time of their first grant of leave
will apply to them
for the rest of the time that they spend in the UK. The rules must
be capable
of being changed from time to time so that the Government can carry
out its
policies - in this case, to ensure that those granted further leave
to remain
under HSMP will benefit the UK economy. The power to make changes to
the
Immigration Rules, as laid out in the Immigration Act 1971, is not
restricted to
changing the rules for entry, or to changing the leave to remain
rules only for
those who obtained leave to enter when those were in force. The only
expectation which applicants should have is that the rules and
policies which
are in force when their application is decided will be correctly
applied to them.

Indeed, it has never been guaranteed that applicants would qualify
for
further or indefinite leave to remain, so there has always been the
risk of not
qualifying for further leave. We have merely tightened up the rules.
I also do
not believe that this is incompatible with the requirement under
HSMP to have
made the UK your main home. This does not require the severing of all
connections with the country of origin and refers to the need to
make the UK
your main home during the course of your leave, which is necessary
for highly
skilled migrants.

As you know, we have introduced extensive transitional arrangements
to
ensure that we retain many of the talented people who will not pass
the new
points test for extension applications. These cater both for the
self-employed
and independent contractors, and make the process of switching into
work
permit employment for those who have been in employment easier. I am
satisfied that this will allow the vast majority of people who have
been
economically active, but who will not pass the points test, to be
granted further
leave to remain.

The statement in the consultation document on the PBS that HSMP
Participants and work permit holders will be able to qualify for
permanent
Residence remains correct. That statement did not, however, imply
that the qualifying criteria for grants of leave under those
categories would remain
Unchanged.

I note your concerns about the introduction into the two new
prescribed
forms of a declaration that applicants recognise that the
Immigration Rules
may change during the course of their leave. This does not introduce
a new
power. As I explain above, we are already able to change the rules
in this
manner. This merely makes it explicitly clear to the applicant that
this is
possible, and so is in the interests of applicants. The introduction
of this
clause is not intended to justify the current changes, nor does it
imply that
applicants would not have been aware of this possibility beforehand.
The
power which this clause describes is not about changing 'the basis
of [the
applicant's] status at any point in the future without any notice at
all', as you
write. Unless there are individual reasons to curtail somebody's
leave, which
do not relate to broad policy changes, applicants will always be
able to
complete their existing leave. The issue in this case is about
future grants of
leave. I understand that you feel that there should have been
consultation
about the introduction of this clause. It would not be practicable
for us to
consult on the introduction of every new clause into a form,
especially when
the clause relates to the exercise of an existing power.

New attributes

You have raised a number of issues concerning the changes to the
points
scoring criteria.

We have removed the points for work experience in favour of those for
previous earnings. When drawing up policy before the publication of
the PBS Command Paper, my officials carried out an analysis of
existing HSMP participants at the further leave to remain stage.
Those applicants who had scored points for previous salary were
earning significantly more than those who had not, and those who had
not (those who tended to score the majority of their points on the
basis of previous work experience) were often not in highly skilled
employment. We believe that the best judge of whether an applicant
has the appropriate experience to succeed in the labour market is
an employer, rather than an immigration official.

People with work experience but a lower previous salary are welcome
to apply for a work permit; their prospective employer will often
offer them a job on this basis. This is reflected in the responses
to the consultation. The consultation response covered both Tiers 1
and 2, and the emphasis on the importance of work experience as
opposed to salary is likely to be more in relation to Tier 2. This
was the impression which my officials gained from their analysis of
the consultation responses. Finally, previous salary is a
much clearer, more objective attribute than work experience, and the
responses to the consultation listed objectivity as the most
important factor in drawing up the new system.

We have emphasised the degree requirement because we are satisfied
that those applicants with degrees are likely to be those who best
meet the aims of the HSMP. Applicants may also apply on the basis of
equivalent level professional qualifications and those without a
degree may apply under other categories of the Immigration Rules. We
have included points for age in order to reward young, highly
skilled migrants who have good salaries for their age, but who may
struggle to gain enough previous salary points because of their
lack of work experience. The inclusion of points for age is a natural
consequence of the inclusion of those for previous salary.

The Home Office has not made misleading statements about the
inclusion of work experience as an attribute, nor have we ignored the
responses to the consultation. As I have mentioned, the responses
about previous work experience in the consultation are likely to
have related more to Tier 2. We gave very strong consideration to
the consultation responses, but we may sometimes take a different
view, particularly if our analysis has led to
different conclusions. Any comments on work experience in the five
year
strategy reflected our thinking at that time and predated that
analysis - had
we already made a definite decision in February 2005 that points
would be
included for certain factors, this would have made the consultation
superfluous.

It is correct that those who switch into another category will not
be able to
use their previous leave under HSMP to qualify for settlement.
Although I am
aware that this may cause frustration to some people, the
Immigration Rules
are drafted in this way (and have been for some time) because those
switching from HSMP into another route may not have been economically
active during their HSMP leave.

Any set of attributes which we choose is likely to exclude some
highly skilled people. I am satisfied that the new requirements for
HSMP will exclude as few of these people as possible and that they
contain sufficient flexibility to cater for talented people from
across the world.

I do understand your concerns and I realise that the introduction of
these changes may at first lead to some uncertainty amongst those
who apply for the HSMP. However, I am satisfied that these changes
strike the correct balance between the need to address the needs of
HSMP applicants with the need to carry out policies which are in the
interests of the UK.

For the reasons which I have set out, I am afraid that I cannot
agree that the changes be suspended pending formal consultation, or
that the old rules for extension applications be applied to those
already in the UK. Regarding your request for confirmation that at
least twenty-one days' notice be given for all future Rules changes,
we will always endeavour to give this notice unless there are strong
reasons not to, as there were in this case.

LondonBlonde
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Post by LondonBlonde » Wed Nov 29, 2006 5:40 pm

For the reasons which I have set out, I am afraid that I cannot
agree that the changes be suspended pending formal consultation, or
that the old rules for extension applications be applied to those
already in the UK.
Thanks for this. Not the best response, is it...

No mention of the age discrimination or the new language requirements.

Is it true that the 5 year clock starts again for people switching from HSMP to work permit?

Does anyone get the impression the HO is not bothered about losing skilled migrants?

LondonBlonde

Rog
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Location: London

Post by Rog » Wed Nov 29, 2006 10:22 pm

The letter from the Home Secretary is quite clear that they want to kick the most of us out. It is surprising that they choose to treat skilled migrants who are not taking a penny from the economy in this manner, whereas illegal asylum seekers and overstayers are being promised £3000 and plane tickets to leave UK

Rog
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Location: London

Post by Rog » Wed Nov 29, 2006 10:30 pm

It is correct that those who switch into another category will not
be able to
use their previous leave under HSMP to qualify for settlement.
Although I am
aware that this may cause frustration to some people, the
Immigration Rules
are drafted in this way (and have been for some time) because those
switching from HSMP into another route may not have been economically
active during their HSMP leave.

The above statement from the Home Secretary that those switching from HSMP to WP may not have been economically active during HSMP leave is meaningless as WP is granted only if a person has been in employment for 8-12 months which is being economically active.

The entire letter has a lot of holes and can be legally challenged

dj_iv
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Post by dj_iv » Thu Nov 30, 2006 10:09 am

How about this:

It is correct that those who switch into another category will not
be able to use their previous leave under HSMP to qualify for settlement.

So, if you are going to switch from HSMP to WP, you will need to start from the beginning!

pantaiema
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Post by pantaiema » Thu Dec 07, 2006 1:48 pm

That is correct for the time beeing. Unless they change it.

Pantaiema
dj_iv wrote:How about this:

It is correct that those who switch into another category will not
be able to use their previous leave under HSMP to qualify for settlement.

So, if you are going to switch from HSMP to WP, you will need to start from the beginning!

first2last4
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Post by first2last4 » Thu Dec 07, 2006 2:13 pm

pantaiema wrote:That is correct for the time beeing. Unless they change it.

Pantaiema
dj_iv wrote:How about this:

It is correct that those who switch into another category will not
be able to use their previous leave under HSMP to qualify for settlement.

So, if you are going to switch from HSMP to WP, you will need to start from the beginning!
unless they change it.......... to worse
Knowledge which is concealed is lost -Hadith

inderjit
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Post by inderjit » Fri Dec 08, 2006 11:24 am

hi
we can forward our case to human rights agianst following two points :
(A). For those who got visa extended before 3 April 06, they have so far 1+3 years stay. For ILR, they would need further 1 year extension.
For those who got visa extended after 3 April 06,even they have same skill, qualification and experience they got 1+4 years visa, sufficient to take them to application of ILR (should fulfill the point criteria?).
there is full contradiction in rule
Migration policy is the right of the UK Government but, it should not contradict with its earlier policies.
(B). in new forms age points are relevent only for initial candidate and for whom applying for first extension. for example to get 20 points you need to be under 27 and you can get same point if you applying for first extension after two year period of initial visa with age 27+2=29, in same way after 1+3 year extension there must be provision to get same 20 points age should be 27+4=31. but in forms I think they only considerd initial visa and first extension, they forget to considered 2nd extension after 4 yrs.
inderjit

inderjit
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Post by inderjit » Fri Dec 08, 2006 1:33 pm

points sent by some one are realy valid

1) As per HO, HSMP is two phased program, Initial Application and extension, That's why they given 4yrs extension during (April-Nov 2006) after the qualifying period changed to 5 yrs.
2) They should not consider this extension , its a cover up due to retrospective change in rules, therefore, visa should be extended without any Fee.
3) 1+3 people have to suffer on age criteria as well,
Example
Age at Initial Enterance Date Ext Date Age At extension Point
27 Yrs June 2004 June 2005 28 20
27Yrs June 2004 June 2006 29 20
27Yrs June 2004 June 2008 32 5


For same person to get extension after 4 yrs instead of 1 or 2 he will lose 15 points.

innocent
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Post by innocent » Fri Dec 08, 2006 2:45 pm

All we are waiting for any 1+3+1 applicant status of extention??????

mahin1110
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extension under new laws

Post by mahin1110 » Fri Dec 08, 2006 4:30 pm

I have applied on 10th Dec for 1 year extension. Letter received on 24th dec. saying I need to submit more documents to be assessed under new rules as I used old form. I donot qualify under new point systems. Talking with friends and lawyers to decide my possible course of actions. Any suggestion highly appeciated.


Thanks


innocent wrote:All we are waiting for any 1+3+1 applicant status of extention??????

ATBPLC
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Post by ATBPLC » Fri Dec 08, 2006 7:38 pm

As earlier suggested, it is advisable to submit application through a solicitor. In fact your solicitor can threaten to go to court questioning the retrospective implementation of changes.

As it is we cannot go the normal way with this people. We should go legal. So seek redress through a solicitor. At least that will offer you some level of protection.

Which other documents did they expect from you? How can you pass an examination you did not prepare for? The syllabus of the examination changed when the examination had started. So you cannot pass. All of us cannot be genious that will just wake up without preparing for examination and pass.

Dont waste time, seek redress

Mrs Khan
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Post by Mrs Khan » Sat Dec 09, 2006 8:27 am

I am in a similar position. My initial one year visa will expire in end of jan07. In previous rules, i could have got extension but now it seems impossible. I still dont understand what they think of HSMP ? we are not Magicians; it takes much time to open bank a/c; getting national insurance number etc. Home Office thinks that the JOBS ARE PRESENTED TO US IN PLATES WITH HANDSOME SALARY.
I was kind of shocked to see the income criteria for one year / more than one year. I know that the British Diplomats serving abroad are getting less than the income level specified for HSMP in UK.
It was pre-planned they dont wana give ILR / residency to any HSMP coz first batch of HSMP group 2002, was supposed to get ILR in 2006 so they introduce five year rule this year and now these new changes -Its ridicilous. Means those who worked hard for these three- four years FEEDED those britons living on benefits and council flats, they will go back to their countries and take a start again.

Locked