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Applying for EEA Family Permit please help

Use this section for any queries concerning the EU Settlement Scheme, for applicants holding pre-settled and settled status.

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EUsmileWEallsmile
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Post by EUsmileWEallsmile » Sat May 26, 2012 5:07 pm

haringnl83 wrote:...The reason given is that my father is now retired and living in Turkey thus he can not be considered as my sponsor as he is no longer Exercising Treaty Rights in the UK...
I believe this rejection is incorrect, but would need to know a little more about your circumstances. I'm going to give an example below.

Let's say A, an EU national came to the UK in 2004. Her child B came to the UK and lived with her. A worked during her five years in the UK and achieved PR in 2009. Child B also achieved PR at the same time. Neither A nor B applied for any residence documentation because they were not obliged to. A retired and left the UK in 2010, and moved to a third country. Having been away for more than 2 years, A's PR lapsed in 2012. B, now an adult, traveled extensively but was not outside the UK for more than 2 years. B's PR still stands even though A's had lapsed.
Last edited by EUsmileWEallsmile on Sat May 26, 2012 5:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by EUsmileWEallsmile » Sat May 26, 2012 5:08 pm

This case law may be relevant to you.

http://www.immigrationboards.com/viewtopic.php?t=98860

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Post by EUsmileWEallsmile » Sat May 26, 2012 5:11 pm

haringnl83 wrote:...my father is now retired and living in Turkey...
When did your father move to Turkey? When exactly did he leave? Has he visited the UK since leaving? If so how often? Does he have any ties to the UK?

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Post by EUsmileWEallsmile » Sat May 26, 2012 5:16 pm

haringnl83 wrote:This has left me very worried and I don't know whether I can appeal this. Would it be better to make a new application, saying I am now exercising my treaty rights as a job seeker and provide letters of job applications I have made?
If you have not been absent from the UK for more than two years having achieved PR, you still have it. I would not let this go if I were you.

You can make a fresh application on the basis of exercising treaty rights, but be aware that others have struggled to get documentation as job-seeker.

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Post by EUsmileWEallsmile » Sat May 26, 2012 5:18 pm

Please note this thread if you decide to apply as a job seeker.

http://www.immigrationboards.com/viewtopic.php?t=100405

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Post by Jambo » Sat May 26, 2012 11:56 pm

haringnl83 wrote:The reason given is that my father is now retired and living in Turkey thus he can not be considered as my sponsor as he is no longer Exercising Treaty Rights in the UK.
You can re-apply with a cover letter explaining why do you believe their previous refusal was wrong.

The fact that you father is no longer in the UK is irrelevant to decide if you have obtained PR status in the past or not. If while residing in the UK, your father (and consequently you) achieved PR status, then your PR status will not be lost even if your father's is. When you achieve PR, you are independent from the sponsor status.

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Post by EUsmileWEallsmile » Sun May 27, 2012 12:04 am

Jambo wrote:
haringnl83 wrote:TWhen you achieve PR, you are independent from the sponsor status.
Exactly.

haringnl83
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Post by haringnl83 » Mon May 28, 2012 3:53 pm

Thank you very much for the advice.
Let's say A, an EU national came to the UK in 2004. Her child B came to the UK and lived with her. A worked during her five years in the UK and achieved PR in 2009. Child B also achieved PR at the same time. Neither A nor B applied for any residence documentation because they were not obliged to. A retired and left the UK in 2010, and moved to a third country. Having been away for more than 2 years, A's PR lapsed in 2012. B, now an adult, traveled extensively but was not outside the UK for more than 2 years. B's PR still stands even though A's had lapsed.
I think my circumstances are quite similar to your example. My family (mum, dad, sister and me) moved to the UK from the Netherlands in 1986. My father was invited to the UK to work for an inter-governmental organisation (ECMWF) for 23 years until his retirement, so would have achieved his PR in 1991, as would I. Neither my father or I have applied for PR before because there was no need for it. My father retired in 2009 and left the UK and moved to Turkey. His PR would have lapsed in 2011, but mine should still be intact because I have never left the country for more than 2 years and my PR status remains independent from my father's status.

Is this correct? Should I write the above story in the cover letter to explain my circumstances?

When did your father move to Turkey? When exactly did he leave? Has he visited the UK since leaving? If so how often? Does he have any ties to the UK?
He moved to Turkey 3 years ago (May 2009). He has visited the UK on an average of 2x a year since then, he still has a UK bank account and his pension comes from the UK. He is able to provide a bank statement as evidence of this.

In the original application I did not include my father's passport (I provided a photocopy of it) as he now lives in Turkey where he is required to keep his passport with him. They did not mention it when they returned the documents to us. In your experience, do you think it could still become a problem?

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Post by EUsmileWEallsmile » Mon May 28, 2012 6:48 pm

haringnl83 wrote:
Is this correct? Should I write the above story in the cover letter to explain my circumstances?
I believe this to be correct. You achieved PR on the day the 2006 regulations came into force. (PR of sorts existed pre-2006 but any application made post April 2006 are considered under the new rules - this is an aside really for information).

As you have PR, you can only lose if you are absent for more than two consecutive years. Sounds like you have not lost it.

A strong covering letter explaining the grounds by which you achieved PR is required.

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Post by EUsmileWEallsmile » Mon May 28, 2012 6:50 pm

haringnl83 wrote: He moved to Turkey 3 years ago (May 2009). He has visited the UK on an average of 2x a year since then
If this is correct, his PR has not lapsed. He still has PR as he has not been absent for more than two years.

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Post by Tam2710 » Mon May 28, 2012 7:00 pm

haringnl83 wrote:Thank you!
Hi hanringnl83, it looks like you're very much in the same (or were rather) as me,Dutch national, have lived in the UK, applying for EEA permit. How did it go? Was it easy to get accepted? I will also be going back to the UK next year with my Chilean hubs and 2 kids (Dutch passports, me and bubbas) - from when is the permit valid from? As soon as we get accepted, we need to sell pretty much everything we have here, sort out the cats for travel home, move out of rented flat, basically do a million things and I'm just worried that we won't have time if the permit is just valid for 6 months from acceptance. Can you shed some light? Dankjewel!

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Post by EUsmileWEallsmile » Mon May 28, 2012 7:06 pm

Tam2710 wrote:...with my Chilean hubs...
Chileans are not visa nationals. No family permit required.

See page page 7 of this document.

http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/sitec ... iew=Binary

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Post by haringnl83 » Mon May 28, 2012 8:08 pm

EUsmileWEallsmile wrote:
haringnl83 wrote: He moved to Turkey 3 years ago (May 2009). He has visited the UK on an average of 2x a year since then
If this is correct, his PR has not lapsed. He still has PR as he has not been absent for more than two years.

He only visits the UK a couple of times a year to visit my sister and I who still live here, for 2 or 3 weeks at a time. His absences are more than 6 months in a year so I thought his PR would have expired?

I think I will write a very strong letter when resending the applications - now I know I'm right and they're wrong I feel much more confident :)

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Post by haringnl83 » Mon May 28, 2012 8:20 pm

Tam2710 wrote:
haringnl83 wrote:Thank you!
Hi hanringnl83, it looks like you're very much in the same (or were rather) as me,Dutch national, have lived in the UK, applying for EEA permit. How did it go? Was it easy to get accepted? I will also be going back to the UK next year with my Chilean hubs and 2 kids (Dutch passports, me and bubbas) - from when is the permit valid from? As soon as we get accepted, we need to sell pretty much everything we have here, sort out the cats for travel home, move out of rented flat, basically do a million things and I'm just worried that we won't have time if the permit is just valid for 6 months from acceptance. Can you shed some light? Dankjewel!
I just sent you a PM.

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Post by EUsmileWEallsmile » Mon May 28, 2012 8:42 pm

haringnl83 wrote:
He only visits the UK a couple of times a year to visit my sister and I who still live here, for 2 or 3 weeks at a time. His absences are more than 6 months in a year so I thought his PR would have expired?
For PR that does not matter. He needs to be absent for more than two years for his PR to lapse.

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Post by EUsmileWEallsmile » Mon May 28, 2012 8:45 pm

Make sure you read chapter IV of the directive (articles 16 onwards).

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Post by Tam2710 » Tue May 29, 2012 1:53 am

Gosh, there are some really knowledgeable people on here. So glad I found this site!!

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Post by Tam2710 » Thu May 31, 2012 7:51 pm

EUsmileWEallsmile wrote:
Tam2710 wrote:...with my Chilean hubs...
Chileans are not visa nationals. No family permit required.

See page page 7 of this document.

http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/sitec ... iew=Binary
Sorry, what do you mean Chileans aren't visa nationals and don't need Family Permits? Yes he does! He's non EU married to an EU national, me! therefore = EEA Family Permit.

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Post by Jambo » Thu May 31, 2012 7:59 pm

Did you read page 7 ?

He can apply for a EEA Family Permit before travelling. He can also jump on a plane (as Chileans don't need a visa), show up at the border (with you or joining you) and seek to enter the UK as a family member of EEA national.

If you got the relevant documents (i.e. a marriage certificate) it is probably much quicker and cheaper than to get it from the British consulate.

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Post by EUsmileWEallsmile » Thu May 31, 2012 8:23 pm

Tam2710 wrote:
EUsmileWEallsmile wrote:
Tam2710 wrote:...with my Chilean hubs...
Chileans are not visa nationals. No family permit required.

See page page 7 of this document.

http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/sitec ... iew=Binary
Sorry, what do you mean Chileans aren't visa nationals and don't need Family Permits? Yes he does! He's non EU married to an EU national, me! therefore = EEA Family Permit.
es he does! He's non EU married to an EU national, me! therefore = EEA Family Permit.
Sorry, I'd thought my post was dead clear. Anyway as Jambo says please read page 7. You can apply if you like or save yourself a whole bunch of hassle. Up to you.

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Post by Tam2710 » Thu May 31, 2012 11:29 pm

EUsmileWEallsmile wrote:
Tam2710 wrote:
EUsmileWEallsmile wrote:
Tam2710 wrote:...with my Chilean hubs...
Chileans are not visa nationals. No family permit required.

See page page 7 of this document.

http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/sitec ... iew=Binary
Sorry, what do you mean Chileans aren't visa nationals and don't need Family Permits? Yes he does! He's non EU married to an EU national, me! therefore = EEA Family Permit.
Hang on a moment, you're saying he can apply for the Family Permit on a tourist visa in the UK? I thought he HAD to apply for the EEA Family permit from abroad before returning to the UK: Yes I know he doesn't need a visa to come to the Uk as a tourist, but we're moving back permanently and he will be a job seeker so the 6 month tourist visa is not the one for him.

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Post by Jambo » Thu May 31, 2012 11:46 pm

He is not going to enter as a tourist but as a family member of EEA national.

When coming to the border, he should state that he seek to enter as a family member of EEA national and provide proof to support that.

The only "issue" would be that without the Family Permit, it would be more difficult to convince employer that he has a right to work in the UK until he applies for a Residence Card once in the UK.

You need to understand that under EEA regulations, being married to a EEA national who is exercising treaty rights in the UK is all that is required for the family member to be legal in the UK. There is no need to permission from the HO and it is optional to apply for documentation confirming this rights.

Read more Residence documents for non-EEA family members of EEA nationals

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Post by carokian » Fri Jun 01, 2012 7:10 am

Hi there

Thank you for the answers you posted on here. So very helpful. My EEA permit has expired and I will be applying for renewal soon. I was wondering if I have to quit my job while applying or may i continue working in the interim?

Thanks again.

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Post by Jambo » Fri Jun 01, 2012 7:45 am

carokian wrote:Hi there

Thank you for the answers you posted on here. So very helpful. My EEA permit has expired and I will be applying for renewal soon. I was wondering if I have to quit my job while applying or may i continue working in the interim?

Thanks again.
Under EEA regulations residence rights are derived from the actions of the EEA national exercising treaty rights and not from documentation from the HO. The HO just confirm the rights not confer the rights.

As long as the EEA national is exercising treaty rights, the family member is legal in the UK and can work.

What do your mean by EEA permit? EEA Family Permit obtained outside the UK or a 5 years Residence Card obtained within the UK.

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Post by Tam2710 » Fri Jun 01, 2012 2:32 pm

Jambo wrote:He is not going to enter as a tourist but as a family member of EEA national.

When coming to the border, he should state that he seek to enter as a family member of EEA national and provide proof to support that.

The only "issue" would be that without the Family Permit, it would be more difficult to convince employer that he has a right to work in the UK until he applies for a Residence Card once in the UK.

You need to understand that under EEA regulations, being married to a EEA national who is exercising treaty rights in the UK is all that is required for the family member to be legal in the UK. There is no need to permission from the HO and it is optional to apply for documentation confirming this rights.

Read more Residence documents for non-EEA family members of EEA nationals
Thanks so much for this, I hadn't read the information properly. Thanks for clearing it up for me

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